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RE: Jailing a 17 year old for hormones? - 6/13/2007 8:11:18 AM   
kitriana


Posts: 62
Joined: 5/29/2005
Status: offline 		Laws exist to protect. They aren't to be cast aside for this circumstance or that. Yes, it is tragic that because he is 17, and was considered an adult, not a minor, it was considered molestation on a 15 year old, BUT this law was made to keep 45 year olds from taking the same liberty with 15 year olds. The line had to be drawn somewhere and the state chose 17. It doesn't mean that at 17 you are any more magically enlightened as to who is and isn't appropriate to get a BJ from that you are at 21 to know how much is OK to drink.

The system has to draw a line somewhere, unfortunate though it is. And anyhow, wouldn't you be pissed to find out your 15 year old was sucking someone off? Parents are the ones who press the charges. That girl's parents were probably outraged she was engaging in such things, when she should have been doing homework, hanging out with friends, NOT participating in sexual activities.. but then again, as a society, we have let ourselves think its OK for adolescents/teenagers to act like they are adults, and fail to act as parents and say "NO" much less punish them.. but alas, that is another discussion..

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: Jailing a 17 year old for hormones? - 6/13/2007 8:20:15 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline 		Sure its wrong but what do you expect?

When you want a 'nanny' to take care and eliminate every possibility of harm, either real or imagined, sometimes the nanny enforces the resulting laws in ways that weren't anticipated. Then you amend the law and another "what if..." occurs and you forget about why it was was there in the first place.

Consensual sexual activities, and laws specific to them between those under 18 is not a "Victorian" principle. People at this age were married, imprisoned, indentured, and treated the same as adults. Anyone with any knowledge of history would know the laws are unique to the US. Good things came from child labor laws. They advanced to the point of mandating education. They've gone on to mandating vaccines. Currently before you consider corporal punishment of your child you better be aware that if your child calls the police, you have the potential of going to jail. This is a logical and expected consequence of abdicating personal responsibility over to the State.

The people who are up in arms about this specific situation are the same ones rationalizing that the State knows what's best for the population on issues ranging from how to raise your offspring to when they should have sex for the first time. I don't understand why they are not overjoyed that this young girl is being protected from this predator even if she enjoyed, wanted, and initiated the action. The 'nanny' knows better. I'm sure many enjoyed and wanted to ride their bicycles without helmets as their parents did, but the nanny says no. I'm sure they would love to enjoy riding in the back of a pickup truck on a back road - but the nanny says no. I'm sure they would love to know whats its like to hang from a 'monkey bar' but the nanny says they are too dangerous.

No better to abdicate responsibility and pontificate how the "intent" and greater good for the masses justifies the rule. Well, here you have the consequence. Don't complain - it is the result of your "good intent". 

(in reply to LightHeartedMaam)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: Jailing a 17 year old for hormones? - 6/13/2007 8:21:23 AM   
seeksfemslave


Posts: 4011
Joined: 6/16/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave
I think:
Was it a crime? Yes for both parties.
Is the sentence sensible? NO, far too severe.
Is the sexually permissive attitude abroad today a good thing. NO.
Especially for "sensitive" adolescents. I believe they do exist lol


There are people all over the world that marry and mate as soon as they pass through puberty. No one thinks this is bad for them, no one coddles them and keeps them suspended in an infantile state for a decade before they are allowed to use the plumbing nature endowed  them with.

It is just silly to me to expect that people who are physically mature will not use their sex drives and do what nature compels them to. As the mother of a UM I have warned him of the pitfalls of making rash choices, including the legal ramifications of those choices. He is going to make the choices he is going to make whether I am "permissive" or not.

I read comments like yours and I wonder if you were ever a teen. I was a virgin until I was 18, the age of legal consent, and I was no more ready for it at 18 than I was at 16. All people mature at different rates.

I would state that the problem is with the Victorian ideals that are prevalent here, not with teens doing what teens have always done and will continue to do as long as our species continues to exist


I was a teen, a very inhibited teen, but a teen nonetheless. I agree with your argument about nature and the human sex drive
but
sexual activity can have serious down sides which are
disease, unwanted pregnancy and family dislocation which, and I do refer here to the UK, results in massive and I mean massive social expenditure and financial burdens on innocents like me.

Some restraint IMO from urban trendies is long overdue. NO?
I just think I am old enough not to try and project a trendy image, thassal.

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: Jailing a 17 year old for hormones? - 6/13/2007 8:59:32 AM   
stella40


Posts: 417
Joined: 1/11/2006
From: London, UK
Status: offline 		There's something I feel we're not being told here. I mean, how did this ever get to court? And why?

And how many of you out there are speaking out in favour of the law but practise BDSM - which is technically speaking illegal - is this not a case of double standards?

Personally I can remember what it was like to be a teenager. I lost my virginity at 15 to a girl who was 21. In your teens yes you have hormones, you have needs, you have desires, you've got no experience, no real knowledge, information from various sources (parents, friends, porn magazines, etc), those you meet are in the same boat, everything is so volatile, unpredictable, and it can be a beautiful experience or it can blow up in your face.

Also let's not forget that in the eyes of a teenager authority isn't quite the same as we see it. Nobody questions our adulthood, nobody assumes they know better than us. We don't feel we have something to prove.

However please don't ask me what it's like to be a teenager today. I haven't got a clue.

All I know is that a 17 year old ended up in jail. Something somewhere must have gone seriously wrong for someone somewhere. But for who? And what? And why?

I don't know. Therefore until I get to know the whole story I decline to make comment or form a definite opinion.

Sitting on a fence can sometimes be comfortable.

_____________________________

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RE: Jailing a 17 year old for hormones? - 6/13/2007 9:17:59 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

Some restraint IMO from urban trendies is long overdue. NO?
I just think I am old enough not to try and project a trendy image, thassal.



Not legislated restraint... making sex between peers illegal is the most retarded thing in my mind, and it never works... next thing you know people will be advocating teens get imprisoned for masturbating... they shoulda shown some restraint...lol

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(in reply to seeksfemslave)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: Jailing a 17 year old for hormones? - 6/13/2007 9:49:01 AM   
RandomGAGirl


Posts: 57
Joined: 3/16/2006
From: Georgia
Status: offline 		I honestly think parents, school, whatever should do more in explaining the age of consent and the legal consequences of having any sort of sexual relationship with someone who is underage.  I remember being in high school and seeing the Seniors that dated Sophmores but I never really thought about the fact it was an 18-19 year old dating a 15-16 year old.  Hell I was one of those 16 year old seniors running around and I was certainly dating people that were over 18 and not even thinking about it.  Now I realize that the guys I dated could have ended up under the jail if my parents had said something.

As much as I want to say that the boy has suffered enough I think this is one of those three sides to every story moments.  There is/was some reason that this matter was pursued initially because i'm sure this isn't the first time people in those age groups in that area have done something like that.  I don't think that the boy should be labeled as a sex offender for the rest of his life and I'm sure that is why his family is fighting so hard BUT I think that the time he spent in jail was necessary.  A lot of these laws are kept in place to keep underaged boys/girls from being targeted by pedophiles and I'm sure the parties prosecuting this are afraid that if this boy were to walk away with no punishment it will be harder to prosecute a similiar case in the future where a 17 year old brutally attacks a 15 year old.

Okay sorry for the rant but I felt the need to add that $1.00 when I started out trying to throw in my $0.02 ;p  Maybe someone will give me the change ;p

The 17 in question http://www.wilsonappeal.com/index.php



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(in reply to juliaoceania)
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RE: Jailing a 17 year old for hormones? - 6/13/2007 10:02:53 AM   
SeeksOnlyOne


Posts: 2012
Joined: 5/14/2007
Status: offline 		i live about 10 miles from where this is all going on and i am counting on my memory here(egads, i know i will be cross examined on not having the facts correct).

if i remember correctly, it was the girls parents that brought this to the attention of the authorities when it initially happened.

i also know a friend of mine knew a friend of his families(i mean how much closer could i be to this-that alone tells you i know everything huh), and she joined them in a petition or something like that to try to stop the charges.

it seems this kid was a good kid basically, football hero at the high school, and i believe he was homecoming king or something like that also.  good grades, no trouble in school etc.  no one who knew him thought he needed to be taught this harsh a lesson based on getting a blow job from a willing blow job giver.

it has stayed in the local news almost non stop since it happened-the few i have discussed it with agree with me-kind of a big price for the kid to pay for "normal" teen behavior.

i hope the kid gets out soon, and i worry that he may have learned things in jail he may have never thought about had he not been there.  frankly, to me, the entire thing sucks, but then i am not the girls mom.

if i were her mom, i think i would have been more likely to read her the riot act and take away every priviledge she had except eating and breathing for a good long while, rather than go after the boy who accepted her offer of a bj.

theres my 2 cents....



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RE: Jailing a 17 year old for hormones? - 6/13/2007 10:23:31 AM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LightHeartedMaam

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

In Georgia I thought it was only proper to "stone" the girl for her whorish ways.


~ yet another misogynistic moment brought to you courtesy of domiguy.


"Domiguy and Misogyny"..............Sung to the tune of, "Ebony and Ivory."

Domiguy and misogyny....Why would a man make a gal drink pee?
Deep inside  is a dildo, ass gored, oh lord, she's gagged by me.
We all know that women are the same where ever we go
There is fat and bad in every one.
We have our mate, we learn to hate
Each other what I need to survive,  I'll take out of your hide.

Domiguy and misogyny...Why would a man make a girl drink pee?
Slap by slap on her big ass with my board, oh lord, why can't she see ? .....


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Profile   Post #: 68
RE: Jailing a 17 year old for hormones? - 6/13/2007 10:26:12 AM   
SeeksOnlyOne


Posts: 2012
Joined: 5/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

quote:

ORIGINAL: LightHeartedMaam

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

In Georgia I thought it was only proper to "stone" the girl for her whorish ways.


~ yet another misogynistic moment brought to you courtesy of domiguy.


"Domiguy and Misogyny"..............Sung to the tune of, "Ebony and Ivory."

Domiguy and misogyny....Why would a man make a gal drink pee?
Deep inside  is a dildo, ass gored, oh lord, she's gagged by me.
We all know that women are the same where ever we go
There is fat and bad in every one.
We have our mate, we learn to hate
Each other what I need to survive,  I'll take out of your hide.

Domiguy and misogyny...Why would a man make a girl drink pee?
Slap by slap on her big ass with my board, oh lord, why can't she see ? .....



lawd i hate me for laffin so hard at that-do it again please

_____________________________

it aint no good til it hurts just a little bit....jimmy somerville

in those moments of solitude, does everyone sometimes think they are insane? or is it just me?

(in reply to domiguy)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: Jailing a 17 year old for hormones? - 6/13/2007 10:51:44 AM   
marieToo


Posts: 3595
Joined: 5/21/2006
From: Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SeeksOnlyOne

i live about 10 miles from where this is all going on and i am counting on my memory here(egads, i know i will be cross examined on not having the facts correct).

if i remember correctly, it was the girls parents that brought this to the attention of the authorities when it initially happened.

i also know a friend of mine knew a friend of his families(i mean how much closer could i be to this-that alone tells you i know everything huh), and she joined them in a petition or something like that to try to stop the charges.

it seems this kid was a good kid basically, football hero at the high school, and i believe he was homecoming king or something like that also.  good grades, no trouble in school etc.  no one who knew him thought he needed to be taught this harsh a lesson based on getting a blow job from a willing blow job giver.

it has stayed in the local news almost non stop since it happened-the few i have discussed it with agree with me-kind of a big price for the kid to pay for "normal" teen behavior.

i hope the kid gets out soon, and i worry that he may have learned things in jail he may have never thought about had he not been there.  frankly, to me, the entire thing sucks, but then i am not the girls mom.

if i were her mom, i think i would have been more likely to read her the riot act and take away every priviledge she had except eating and breathing for a good long while, rather than go after the boy who accepted her offer of a bj.

theres my 2 cents....




I agree with that statement, however, that doesn't make it ok for others to exploit her poor decision to get drunk around a bunch of horny older guys. And it doesn't excuse the dope who was stupid enough to videotape it.   This whole thing was one collective poor judgment call on ALL their parts.  The kid shouldnt be in jail, but obviously his choice to take advantage of the situation is one that he needs to take responsibility for, just as the girl should take responsibility for her part in it.

I still think there should be cut and dried age of consent laws that should be consistantly adhered to, and teens should be made aware of those laws. It would certainly eliminate all the guesswork for jury members and it would take the discretionary power away from corrupt judges. 

< Message edited by marieToo -- 6/13/2007 10:52:33 AM >

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RE: Jailing a 17 year old for hormones? - 6/13/2007 11:03:02 AM   
marieToo


Posts: 3595
Joined: 5/21/2006
From: Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

Some restraint IMO from urban trendies is long overdue. NO?
I just think I am old enough not to try and project a trendy image, thassal.



Not legislated restraint... making sex between peers illegal is the most retarded thing in my mind, and it never works... next thing you know people will be advocating teens get imprisoned for masturbating... they shoulda shown some restraint...lol


Is sex between 2 underage children illegal?  (Im not sure.) But sex between a minor and an adult is for sure illegal.

How do we define peers?  13 and 18?  15 and 18?  12 and 14?   I mean there has to be a chronological number for a starting point; there has to be an "age of consent" and having sex with those UNDER that age has to be illegal.  Otherwise we're going to have 13 year olds being taken advantage of by 17-18-19  year olds.  And we're going to have cases where the argument is going to be "well the 13 year old in question was very mature and has had sex before, therefore, it's ok in this case for him/her to have had sex with the 18 year old in this case who happend to have been a virgin."  There is far too much gray area with something like this.  There has to be an age of consent....we can't define people by saying they are "peers"...."peers" leaves way too much wiggle room. 

_____________________________

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I give good agita.









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RE: Jailing a 17 year old for hormones? - 6/13/2007 11:03:18 AM   
SeeksOnlyOne


Posts: 2012
Joined: 5/14/2007
Status: offline 		i agree with you......and i think most days a 15 year old female would be more mature than a 17 year old male.....in a perfect world, the age of consent would be based on mental capacity and not a number.....

the entire thing is horrible, i just hope it can have a resolution of some sort very soon.

_____________________________

it aint no good til it hurts just a little bit....jimmy somerville

in those moments of solitude, does everyone sometimes think they are insane? or is it just me?

(in reply to marieToo)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: Jailing a 17 year old for hormones? - 6/13/2007 11:29:29 AM   
slaveboyforyou


Posts: 3607
Joined: 1/6/2005
From: Arkansas, U.S.A.
Status: offline
quote:

I agree with that statement, however, that doesn't make it ok for others to exploit her poor decision to get drunk around a bunch of horny older guys.


I really don't understand this mentality.  I thought we got past the point in our society where we view women as fragile, helpless creatures that need to be protected from themselves.  I will confess to getting drunk and winding up in bed with someone and regretting it.  However, I have never felt exploited or used when that happened.  No one drugged me or made me drink alcohol to excess.  I have never heard any man say that he felt exploited if he made an error in judgement while intoxicated.

Honestly, I think the publicity and the drama surrounding this entire case is causing more harm to this girl then regret from a drunken sexcapade ever would.    

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RE: Jailing a 17 year old for hormones? - 6/13/2007 11:32:07 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

There has to be an age of consent....we can't define people by saying they are "peers"...."peers" leaves way too much wiggle room. 



You do know what a cohort group is? I would consider this sex between peers once puberty has been reached... seems a pretty good standard to me.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: Jailing a 17 year old for hormones? - 6/13/2007 11:37:42 AM   
marieToo


Posts: 3595
Joined: 5/21/2006
From: Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou

quote:

I agree with that statement, however, that doesn't make it ok for others to exploit her poor decision to get drunk around a bunch of horny older guys.


I really don't understand this mentality.  I thought we got past the point in our society where we view women as fragile, helpless creatures that need to be protected from themselves.  I will confess to getting drunk and winding up in bed with someone and regretting it.  However, I have never felt exploited or used when that happened.  No one drugged me or made me drink alcohol to excess.  I have never heard any man say that he felt exploited if he made an error in judgement while intoxicated.

Honestly, I think the publicity and the drama surrounding this entire case is causing more harm to this girl then regret from a drunken sexcapade ever would.    


I cannot speak from your experiences or how you have felt when you have gotten drunk and wound up in bed with someone.

It is my personal belief that one person making a poor judgement call does not excuse another for having exploited it.

Edited to add:  That gender has nothing to do with it.  I merely used the term 'horny guys" because in this case, males were getting the blow jobs.  If you read my whole statement, you will see that I did not excuse the female for her own actions, on the contrary I say that she should take responsibility as well. 

< Message edited by marieToo -- 6/13/2007 11:43:18 AM >

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RE: Jailing a 17 year old for hormones? - 6/13/2007 11:44:15 AM   
slaveboyforyou


Posts: 3607
Joined: 1/6/2005
From: Arkansas, U.S.A.
Status: offline
quote:

I cannot speak from your experiences or how you have felt when you have gotten drunk and wound up in bed with someone.

It is my personal belief that one person making a poor judgement call does not excuse another for having exploited it.


This girl has said that the act was consensual.  She wasn't exploited.  Performing oral sex on someone is not a passive act.  If she had been passed out or unable to offer resistance and penetrated, I would agree with you.  That is rape and I would be all for throwing the book at someone for that.  But that is not what happened in this case. 

(in reply to marieToo)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: Jailing a 17 year old for hormones? - 6/13/2007 11:52:26 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

I cannot speak from your experiences or how you have felt when you have gotten drunk and wound up in bed with someone.

It is my personal belief that one person making a poor judgment call does not excuse another for having exploited it.


One night a long time ago - I was 23. In a galaxy far, far, away - NJ. I was hanging out with my best friend at a bar/restaurant around the corner from the apartment I had at the time. We met a woman I was dating who happened to be there with her sister. Something I ate/drank didn't agree with me and I got sick and had to leave. My girlfriend took me home. I told my other friend if he wanted to crash at my apartment it was fine and I gave him my extra key. 

Next morning upon waking, I see my friend and my girlfriend's sister wrapped around a blanket naked laying in each others arms on my pull out sofa bed. I made coffee while they got presentable. As they were finishing up putting on her shoes, I asked the girl with a sarcastic smile on my face; "So - did you have any problem being served?" She gave me a nasty look and answered me "no". She then turned to my 25 year old friend. He realized something was amiss and his face lost all color as she to him; "Oh by the way, I'm only 17".

I don't think either was drunk. I know both had a drink or two. Was this "poor judgment"? Exploitation?

(in reply to marieToo)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: Jailing a 17 year old for hormones? - 6/13/2007 11:53:30 AM   
Archer


Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		The fact that both parties were to some extent intoxicated places them both on afairly level field as far as responsibility.

Both Drunk at a new years eve party
Both under the age of majority
Mutual consent
Two years is kinda the solution they came up with in deciding what a "peer group" means as far as this subject goes.
(ie 18 has sex with 16 = misdemenor, 18 has sex with 15 =  felony)
The two year rule makes it pretty cut and dried when it comes to the jury fiuring it out.

Considering that the event was on tape it's a safe bet that charges were pressed because the mother of the girl discovered her baby was a porn star and go pissed off. She reported it to the police.

The guy is lucky he didn't have possesion of a copy or he might also have been arrested for having porn fitting the legal discription of %%*7 porn. Production and possesion.




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Profile   Post #: 78
RE: Jailing a 17 year old for hormones? - 6/13/2007 12:02:11 PM   
marieToo


Posts: 3595
Joined: 5/21/2006
From: Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou

quote:

I cannot speak from your experiences or how you have felt when you have gotten drunk and wound up in bed with someone.

It is my personal belief that one person making a poor judgement call does not excuse another for having exploited it.


This girl has said that the act was consensual.  She wasn't exploited.  Performing oral sex on someone is not a passive act.  If she had been passed out or unable to offer resistance and penetrated, I would agree with you.  That is rape and I would be all for throwing the book at someone for that.  But that is not what happened in this case. 



Oral sex in and of itself cannot be defined as a passive or aggressive act...Only the circumstances could dictate that.
When a person is drunk, their judgement is not what it would normally be.  I believe the girl was taken advantage of, which is her responsibility and the responsbility of those who would get themselves involved with someone who is that drunk.  I am aware she didn't declare force or rape; I didn't imply that she did. 
I stand behind my opinion that this was poor judgement on all their parts---from the amount of alcohol consumed, to the taking of the blow jobs, to the giving of the blow jobs, to the videotaping of it. 




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Profile   Post #: 79
RE: Jailing a 17 year old for hormones? - 6/13/2007 12:09:06 PM   
marieToo


Posts: 3595
Joined: 5/21/2006
From: Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

I cannot speak from your experiences or how you have felt when you have gotten drunk and wound up in bed with someone.

It is my personal belief that one person making a poor judgment call does not excuse another for having exploited it.


One night a long time ago - I was 23. In a galaxy far, far, away - NJ. I was hanging out with my best friend at a bar/restaurant around the corner from the apartment I had at the time. We met a woman I was dating who happened to be there with her sister. Something I ate/drank didn't agree with me and I got sick and had to leave. My girlfriend took me home. I told my other friend if he wanted to crash at my apartment it was fine and I gave him my extra key. 

Next morning upon waking, I see my friend and my girlfriend's sister wrapped around a blanket naked laying in each others arms on my pull out sofa bed. I made coffee while they got presentable. As they were finishing up putting on her shoes, I asked the girl with a sarcastic smile on my face; "So - did you have any problem being served?" She gave me a nasty look and answered me "no". She then turned to my 25 year old friend. He realized something was amiss and his face lost all color as she to him; "Oh by the way, I'm only 17".

I don't think either was drunk. I know both had a drink or two. Was this "poor judgment"? Exploitation?


Fucking people that you dont know is most certainly poor judgement, drunk or not.  If he had an inkling that she was underage but went along with her pretense in order to get laid, I would say yes if those were the circumstances,  he exploited her.  Otherwise he got fooled.

Either way, both are responsible for their actions which is exactly what I said in my post.  Yet everyone is stuck on the one line and didn't bother to read it to the end.


< Message edited by marieToo -- 6/13/2007 12:10:10 PM >

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