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RE: Jailing a 17 year old for hormones? - 6/13/2007 3:50:02 PM   
SeeksOnlyOne


Posts: 2012
Joined: 5/14/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

quote:

juliaoceania
The hypocrisy of it all is that the same people that make these laws often are having sex with people they are not married to, and probably got their own knob polished when they were in high school.
 
Exactly!...This thread reminds me of others....Say abortion, for instance....People seem to so quickly forget what it was like to be young....and try to place the morality of a 45 year old unto that of someone who is 17.....The Union should flush the whole state...Oooops, what about Michael?....Actually he might be ready to welcome the sweet release of death.


i think i may have to start a thread titled "to build an ark or just buy a boat like the tidy bowl man had? that is the question.

i dont wanna be flushed dang it

_____________________________

it aint no good til it hurts just a little bit....jimmy somerville

in those moments of solitude, does everyone sometimes think they are insane? or is it just me?

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RE: Jailing a 17 year old for hormones? - 6/13/2007 6:04:45 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: marieToo

Yes, but this wasn't the school making a big hem-haw out of this. It was the girl's parents. 


Sucks to have parents who dont remember knob polishing in high school.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


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RE: Jailing a 17 year old for hormones? - 6/13/2007 6:56:18 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		Certainly we need to protect children. No one would argue to protect an adult who molests an eleven-year old, for example. But what if eleven-year olds decide to play doctor? Are they criminals (perhaps they’ll get “youthful offender” status)? Clearly, that’s not predatory, nor a matter for the law--that’s something parents/guardians should handle. But how can such sense earn a voice in a climate that in some corners still criminalizes consensual adult partners engaging in “mud turtling,” even married heterosexual couples? (God intended all partners to face each other, apparently.)

(in reply to Sinergy)
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RE: Jailing a 17 year old for hormones? - 6/13/2007 6:59:50 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: marieToo

Yes, but this wasn't the school making a big hem-haw out of this. It was the girl's parents. 


Sucks to have parents who dont remember knob polishing in high school.

Sinergy


Was this a required course where you went to school?

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 104
RE: Jailing a 17 year old for hormones? - 6/13/2007 7:01:11 PM   
Sinergy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: marieToo

Yes, but this wasn't the school making a big hem-haw out of this. It was the girl's parents. 


Sucks to have parents who dont remember knob polishing in high school.

Sinergy


Was this a required course where you went to school?


They called it Modern Dance.

It was an elective.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to juliaoceania)
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RE: Jailing a 17 year old for hormones? - 6/13/2007 10:51:45 PM   
seeksfemslave


Posts: 4011
Joined: 6/16/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
quote:

Some restraint IMO from urban trendies is long overdue. NO?
I just think I am old enough not to try and project a trendy image, thassal.


Not legislated restraint... making sex between peers illegal is the most retarded thing in my mind, and it never works... next thing you know people will be advocating teens get imprisoned for masturbating... they shoulda shown some restraint...lol


I am talking about restraint by those urban trendies who set the tone and values that become the social norms. If you saturate a society with sexually explicit imagery,as occurs now, the negative consequences will be seen, as occurs now !

Taking you post literally it appears that you advocate no age restraints on peer sexual activity. I wonder how many parents would support you if they found out their 13/14 yo daughter was out screwing around on a regular basis ? 

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Profile   Post #: 106
RE: Jailing a 17 year old for hormones? - 6/14/2007 12:08:28 AM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
quote:

Some restraint IMO from urban trendies is long overdue. NO?
I just think I am old enough not to try and project a trendy image, thassal.


Not legislated restraint... making sex between peers illegal is the most retarded thing in my mind, and it never works... next thing you know people will be advocating teens get imprisoned for masturbating... they shoulda shown some restraint...lol


I am talking about restraint by those urban trendies who set the tone and values that become the social norms. If you saturate a society with sexually explicit imagery,as occurs now, the negative consequences will be seen, as occurs now !

Taking you post literally it appears that you advocate no age restraints on peer sexual activity. I wonder how many parents would support you if they found out their 13/14 yo daughter was out screwing around on a regular basis ? 


I had the conversation with my daughter when she was 15.

She is now 20, and has dated the same guy for 5 years who is 4 years her senior.

When I do the math, I come to the conclusion that I had the conversation with her a year prior to anything happening, although I might be wrong.

I pointed out to her that I wanted her to be safe and to be happy, and if there was anything I could do to let me know.

Sinergy

p.s.  My father had the conversation with me over a year after I became sexually active at 15.

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to seeksfemslave)
Profile   Post #: 107
RE: Jailing a 17 year old for hormones? - 6/14/2007 12:08:29 AM   
CuriousLord


Posts: 3911
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline 		Two years of difference in age- child molestation? Where do I send my cash for the appeal fund?

Hell, I got out of highschool just a while ago. I'm in college now. A -lot- of people have relationships just above and below 18-years of age. I can see why people might contest a 70-year old man with a 10-year old girl. But a 17-year old and a 15-year old? What the hell?

No, nothing intelligent to say about this. If I actually thought about it, I'd probably get pissed off, drive to whatever court passed it, and argue the appeal myself.

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 108
RE: Jailing a 17 year old for hormones? - 6/14/2007 12:13:05 AM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		Careful, CL, don't go boning the local high-school girls when you're on Spring Break.

Or at least don't do it while being black in Georgia.

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Profile   Post #: 109
RE: Jailing a 17 year old for hormones? - 6/14/2007 12:47:58 AM   
yrstocollar


Posts: 95
Joined: 8/14/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kitriana

Laws exist to protect. They aren't to be cast aside for this circumstance or that. Yes, it is tragic that because he is 17, and was considered an adult, not a minor, it was considered molestation on a 15 year old, BUT this law was made to keep 45 year olds from taking the same liberty with 15 year olds. The line had to be drawn somewhere and the state chose 17.


Laws are also written by humans.. and we are inherently flawed and bias and act from our own experiences and beliefs which frankly means laws are not and never will be perfect.

Judges and police and the whole judicial system is given powers of discretion. This means that when common sense shows that a law is unjust, outdated, applies to a case on paper but shouldn't in reality or there are mitigating circumstances... the case should be "cast aside" or these should be considered in sentencing / choosing to prosecute.

Overall I don't know enough of the details of this particular case to make and expert ruling here but... IF the sex was consensual:

*neither party should be charged with a criminal offence... while she is 15, he is only 17... this is where discretion comes into play... and rightly so! It's one of those grey areas of maturity. This case CAN'T be compared to a 45 year old and a 15 year old because of the clear power differential... that same power differential generally does not apply when you're talking about similar aged teenagers. If she had a disability say then this would apply... or if you have similar aged people but one has clear power over another then it applies eg student and teacher. The law is in place to protect vulnerable people in positions of less power... not necessarily just because of age.

*NO WAY should this boy should be considered a sex offender - so long as it was consential he has done nothing any other teenage boy wouldn't do given half a chance!

*NO WAY should he have gone to jail - so long as it was consential this is clearly not a criminal matter. Now what kind of person do you think is going to be released back into society??? Well done guys! Great system!!

On the flip side... IF the sex wasn't consential... charge him appropriately with rape and sentence accordingly.

(in reply to kitriana)
Profile   Post #: 110
RE: Jailing a 17 year old for hormones? - 6/14/2007 1:33:47 AM   
rook42


Posts: 110
Joined: 10/2/2005
Status: offline 		Up here, the age difference matters. An 18 year old and a 16 year old can get together legally. Same with 17 and 15. And a 16 and a 14 can, I believe(might be a bit outdated in my thinking- been a couple years since i've worried about the technicalities)

It's a much easier system, logically. On the other hand, living with an unwed member of the opposite sex is illegal, as is oral sex. Every state's got its peculiarities.

One thing to note is that most illogical laws (the illegality of oral/anal sex), are not prosecuted. "Or at least don't do it while being black in Georgia." is probably an apt statement with respect to which way discretion swings in these cases.

(in reply to yrstocollar)
Profile   Post #: 111
RE: Jailing a 17 year old for hormones? - 6/14/2007 6:04:43 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

Taking you post literally it appears that you advocate no age restraints on peer sexual activity. I wonder how many parents would support you if they found out their 13/14 yo daughter was out screwing around on a regular basis ? 


I do not want this to be illegal with police arresting my daughter, nor the other party involved that is the same age as she is. I have no daughter. I am hoping I would have the same attitude toward a daughter as I have toward my son. As Sinergy stated, I just want him to be as safe as possible.... meaning educated on how to protect his heath. I do not want him to be exploited, I would not want a daughter to be exploited.

In my conversations with men I have been involved with my ex hubby and Sinergy both had their "virginity" taken by women in their 20s when they were 17. In my state if a man in his 20s has sex with a 17 year old girl we call that "jail bait". Now both Sinergy and my ex hubby report positive experiences and fond memories of these women. Neither of them felt exploited.

I find it interesting that you ask about some fictional "daughter" that I do not have rather than the UM I do. I also find it interesting that you put her in the role of victim at the same age as the person who victimizes her.....

Now you tell me, how long should this 14 year old be locked up for since we are making sex illegal? Do we paint a scarlet letter on them? How about throwing rotten tomatoes at them in the city square? How exactly do we shame them into conforming? Nope, that is not the way I want my UM treated, others may differ

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to seeksfemslave)
Profile   Post #: 112
RE: Jailing a 17 year old for hormones? - 6/14/2007 8:20:07 AM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

In my conversations with men I have been involved with my ex hubby and Sinergy both had their "virginity" taken by women in their 20s when they were 17. In my state if a man in his 20s has sex with a 17 year old girl we call that "jail bait". Now both Sinergy and my ex hubby report positive experiences and fond memories of these women. Neither of them felt exploited.



Incorrect.  I lost my virginity the beginning of my junior year of high school to a sophomore.  I did not meet the PhD candidate until the middle of my junior year, and we did not actually date for 11 months.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 113
RE: Jailing a 17 year old for hormones? - 6/14/2007 8:51:41 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		I should rephrase that, my exhusband lost his virginity when he was 17 to a neighbor that babysat his little sister, she was 24 I believe...

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 114
RE: Jailing a 17 year old for hormones? - 6/14/2007 11:18:59 AM   
seeksfemslave


Posts: 4011
Joined: 6/16/2006
Status: offline
quote:

JuliaOceania
I find it interesting that you ask about some fictional "daughter" that I do not have rather than the UM I do. I also find it interesting that you put her in the role of victim at the same age as the person who victimizes her.....

Seeks says: the you is me if you catch my drift  


Dr A K A  Demic asks me to ask you how you can find "interesting" something that wasnt said ?

The Dr also says that Seeks tells him that he ie Seeks had already posted that he thought the sentences were too severe and both parties had committed an offence.
So I think I will throw a tomahto...at you he he he he he he

< Message edited by seeksfemslave -- 6/14/2007 11:23:18 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 115
RE: Jailing a 17 year old for hormones? - 6/14/2007 6:17:00 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

quote:

JuliaOceania
I find it interesting that you ask about some fictional "daughter" that I do not have rather than the UM I do. I also find it interesting that you put her in the role of victim at the same age as the person who victimizes her.....

Seeks says: the you is me if you catch my drift  


Dr A K A  Demic asks me to ask you how you can find "interesting" something that wasnt said ?

The Dr also says that Seeks tells him that he ie Seeks had already posted that he thought the sentences were too severe and both parties had committed an offence.
So I think I will throw a tomahto...at you he he he he he he


Here is the part of the quote that caused my "misunderstanding"

quote:

ORIGINAL:seeksfemslave

Taking you post literally it appears that you advocate no age restraints on peer sexual activity. I wonder how many parents would support you if they found out their 13/14 yo daughter was out screwing around on a regular basis ? 


I am parent, so I assumed you meant me too... my bad

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to seeksfemslave)
Profile   Post #: 116
RE: Jailing a 17 year old for hormones? - 6/15/2007 12:02:12 AM   
seeksfemslave


Posts: 4011
Joined: 6/16/2006
Status: offline
quote:

JuliaOceania
Here is the part of the quote that caused my "misunderstanding"

quote:

seeksfemslave
Taking you post literally it appears that you advocate no age restraints on peer sexual activity. I wonder how many parents would support you if they found out their 13/14 yo daughter was out screwing around on a regular basis ? 


quote:

MsJO
I am parent, so I assumed you meant me too... my bad

Dr A K A Demic points out that you have a male offspring therefore the "Seeks" quote does not apply to you.
The Dr then went on to say that you, in this instance at least, are not bad but illogical. Give up ?

< Message edited by seeksfemslave -- 6/15/2007 12:13:42 AM >

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 117
RE: Jailing a 17 year old for hormones? - 6/15/2007 5:52:59 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		sfs, if you would like to tell me if you would like to jail children for experimenting sexually, that is your opinion. I accept it, but this dodging about due to misreading a post is really silly...

< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 6/15/2007 5:53:18 AM >

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to seeksfemslave)
Profile   Post #: 118
RE: Jailing a 17 year old for hormones? - 6/15/2007 6:04:50 AM   
seeksfemslave


Posts: 4011
Joined: 6/16/2006
Status: offline 		First I hope you woke up refreshed after a good nights sleep MsJO.
We both know you made a mistake but I am very forgiving.

Second, UMs are capable of some dastardly things and I should think sexual violence is one of them. Murder certainly is.
Jail ?.Dont say treatment cos' that doesnt work.

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 119
RE: Jailing a 17 year old for hormones? - 6/15/2007 6:15:15 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		Now you change the subject, dodge again, we are not talking about rape here... we are talking consensual sex...

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to seeksfemslave)
Profile   Post #: 120
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