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surrenering or ? - 6/13/2007 9:51:39 AM

charmdpetKeira

Posts: 916
Joined: 6/2/2007
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“The submissive yields to His power and surrenders herself, body and mind, completely to His control.”

This is a statement, from an e-mail I received. While I understand what the author is saying, something about the word “surrender” does not feel right to me, in a D/s context.

To me, it implies defeat; that I have/would be giving up something/self.

It would seem more accurate to say, a good D/s relationship would cause the submissive to open up, and connect with their Dom; or is it just me?

Thoughts?

Sincerely,

k

_____________________________

Life is tough, that does not mean it isn't fair.

There is no wrong choice, only consequence.

Post #: 1

RE: surrenering or ? - 6/13/2007 9:54:24 AM

Milivoje

Posts: 57
Joined: 7/17/2005
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IMO players seek to surrender.

Lifestylers seek to mutually explore.

(in reply to charmdpetKeira)

Post #: 2

RE: surrenering or ? - 6/13/2007 9:56:21 AM

happypervert

Posts: 2203
Joined: 5/11/2004
From: Scranton, PA
Status: offline

quote:

“The submissive yields to His power and surrenders herself, body and mind, completely to His control.”

. . . and then they ride off to a castle in the sky in a carriage drawn by pink unicorns.

Yeah, I agree with you. That statement above sounds like it came from someone who read the Castles Realm website or too many Harlequin Romance novels.

_____________________________

"Get a bicycle. You will not regret it if you live." . . . Mark Twain

(in reply to charmdpetKeira)

Post #: 3

RE: surrenering or ? - 6/13/2007 9:58:56 AM

imthatacheyouhav

Posts: 1259
Joined: 4/16/2007
Status: offline

Surrendering works for me... I don't mind that my willfulness is "defeated" by my Master... i personally have already subscribed to the notion that i have, and will continue to surrender to my Master.... i don't feel defeated...i feel free and liberated.
Edited to add:
"IMO players seek to surrender."
Hmmm...omg...i'm a PLAYER!!!...Someone should e-mail my Master and warn Him!!

< Message edited by imthatacheyouhav -- 6/13/2007 10:02:17 AM >

_____________________________

*if you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything*
**collared July 22 2007 by LordKen**

(in reply to charmdpetKeira)

Post #: 4

RE: surrenering or ? - 6/13/2007 10:04:35 AM

slaverosebeauty

Posts: 1941
Joined: 12/12/2004
From: Cali
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: charmdpetKeira
“The submissive yields to His power and surrenders herself, body and mind, completely to His control.”

Sounds like the person is talking about a power struggle where in this case the submissive stuggles against 'His power' and wants to remain free. If a submissive wants to remain free, then why in the heck would she be in that kind of relationship.

I know that when I 'surrender' myself to something I give myself over to it, maybe not defeat per se, but, I do give over power to that 'thing' [person, place, idea, etc]. I don't see it as defeat though, more as a new path.

_____________________________

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"Friends live on in our hearts, regardless if they are here or not."

(in reply to charmdpetKeira)

Post #: 5

RE: surrenering or ? - 6/13/2007 10:06:10 AM

Milivoje

Posts: 57
Joined: 7/17/2005
Status: offline

quote:

"IMO players seek to surrender."
Hmmm...omg...i'm a PLAYER!!!...Someone should e-mail my Master and warn Him!!

LOL

But wait... you are in a relationship... that doesn't make you a player.

I've mailed your Master the good news

EDIT: I admit I was short on words, and have to clarify a bit. In my opinioin a player is a person who just wants to try out certain things, and does not care much about relationships or commitment. Therefore I suspect that they use such strong words in a vague hope that someone will bite.

EDIT 2: Then again I may be horribly mistaken...

< Message edited by Milivoje -- 6/13/2007 10:11:07 AM >

(in reply to imthatacheyouhav)

Post #: 6

RE: surrenering or ? - 6/13/2007 10:08:44 AM

imthatacheyouhav

Posts: 1259
Joined: 4/16/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Milivoje

quote:

"IMO players seek to surrender."
Hmmm...omg...i'm a PLAYER!!!...Someone should e-mail my Master and warn Him!!

LOL

But wait... you are in a relationship... that doesn't make you a player.

I've mailed your Master the good news

omg Phew....boy...another near tragedy averted here on the CM forums....

_____________________________

*if you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything*
**collared July 22 2007 by LordKen**

(in reply to Milivoje)

Post #: 7

RE: surrenering or ? - 6/13/2007 10:08:51 AM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: charmdpetKeira
...Thoughts?...

picking apart definitions of individual words is a fun pastime for some folks....ever wade into the "what is the definition of a ________ (slave, sub, Master, etc.)" debate currently raging on until the end of time on many internet fora?

personally, this slave likes the word surrender, for the exact reason you gave for your dislike of it.
the implication that this slave has given up something, particularly but not exclusively her individual self, is an accurate description of what happened.

(in reply to charmdpetKeira)

Post #: 8

RE: surrenering or ? - 6/13/2007 10:17:27 AM

Celeste43

Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
Status: offline

To me surrendering has a nuance of resignation, of unhappiness. Therefore I wouldn't use it or respond to someone who announced this as the goal during an early email. But that's me. There are subs here who like this idea.

I prefer not to believe that I am helpless, powerless, without choice. I chose him after careful consideration which he would be the first to tell someone. I came to know him, to trust him, to respect him and to hand over control willingly as a result.

I'm not sure the end results are that different, but different words have different nuances and they influence our view of ourselves and of our relationships.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 9

RE: surrenering or ? - 6/13/2007 10:23:34 AM

RCdc

Posts: 8674
Status: offline

I don't see surrender as a negative word. In fact I believe most people forget that surrender is more an unconscious act that both the submissive and the dominant are released by.

Peace

the.dark.

_____________________________

RC&dc

love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to charmdpetKeira)

Post #: 10

RE: surrenering or ? - 6/13/2007 10:29:00 AM

MasterFireMaam

Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline

Surrender can mean to "turn over to" as well. It's all about perspective and semantics.

Master Fire

_____________________________

The power of who we are can be intoxicating. The power of who we could be is humbling.
-----
Ms Relationship Books
-----
BDSM How-To Books

(in reply to charmdpetKeira)

Post #: 11

RE: surrenering or ? - 6/13/2007 10:32:00 AM

charismagirrl

Posts: 297
Joined: 8/30/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: charmdpetKeira

“The submissive yields to His power and surrenders herself, body and mind, completely to His control.”

This is a statement, from an e-mail I received. While I understand what the author is saying, something about the word “surrender” does not feel right to me, in a D/s context.

To me, it implies defeat; that I have/would be giving up something/self.

It would seem more accurate to say, a good D/s relationship would cause the submissive to open up, and connect with their Dom; or is it just me?

Thoughts?

Sincerely,

k

k,

i can understand what you mean that it sounds like defeat and depending on your usage of the term D/s and if that includes M/s as well then i can speak from my POV about what surrender means to my relationship.

i surrender to my Master/Daddy all the time. There was the big surrender (when i accpeted his collar and agreed to be his slave) But this isn't the only surrender, maybe yeilding sounds better? (maybe not)...

i yeild/surrender to him all the time, defer to him, his will, wants and desires. It is NOT defeat because i CHOOSE to do this. i chose to have him as my Master and he chose me as his slave, so that is just part of the dynamic.

i ALSO open up to him and there IS a connection between us but it's different than connections i had in vanilla relationships. The connection though, is based on the fact that i came to him and continue to come to him with an open heart and mind and surrendering my will to him and what he envisions for me, so that i might be molded and guided and taught by him for the betterment of myself and our relationship.

This wasn't always the case, i thought i was surrendered to him, that i wasn't resisting and in actuality i was resisting ALOT and silently and respectfully fighting surrender.Ultimately i was being disobedient in so many ways and making it that much more difficult on both of us. During this time i really didn't realize that i was doing this.

So i gave in further, deepened my submission and surrendered and i was never as happy as i am now.

Edited to add: If you yeild to another vehicle on the road or a pedestrian in a crosswalk are you defeated by them because you yeilded? Or are you simply following the dynamics of the road?

quote:

ORIGINAL: happypervert

. . . and then they ride off to a castle in the sky in a carriage drawn by pink unicorns.

LOL ya think huh? Well there have been no castles or pink unicorns (I WISH LOL) or romance novels in our relationship, actually it can seem very typical (read: vanilla) sometimes but it is all about one's perspective on things.

< Message edited by charismagirrl -- 6/13/2007 10:34:54 AM >

_____________________________

For today i won't say but...
For today i wont say just...
For today i will simply obey....
For today i will trust that You are right...
For always i will be your imperfect slave

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(in reply to charmdpetKeira)

Post #: 12

RE: surrenering or ? - 6/13/2007 10:52:31 AM

silvermuse

Posts: 259
Joined: 6/8/2007
Status: offline

Castles? Unicorns?

humph.

*goes to register a complaint with Master as I obviously missed out*

muse

_____________________________

There is darkness and there is evil, never mistake the two.

(in reply to charismagirrl)

Post #: 13

RE: surrenering or ? - 6/13/2007 11:34:09 AM

charmdpetKeira

Posts: 916
Joined: 6/2/2007
Status: offline

quote:

picking apart definitions of individual words is a fun pastime for some folks....

Considering the fact, you agreed with the way I defined the word; I am unsure how you see what I said as picking the word apart.

quote:

ever wade into the "what is the definition of a ________ (slave, sub, Master, etc.)" debate currently raging on until the end of time on many internet fora?

I have, but not for a very long time. The topic became frustrating for me, until I realized I am neither; now the topic is irrelevant to me.

quote:

personally, this slave likes the word surrender, for the exact reason you gave for your dislike of it.
the implication that this slave has given up something, particularly but not exclusively her individual self, is an accurate description of what happened.

Although I did not mention it in my OP, I do realize there are those, who not only disagree with me, but are likely to do so, for many reasons. This was a “what are everyone’s thoughts on this topic” thread; not an “everyone agree with me” thread. I posted the topic for the simple reasons; I like to look at things from different angles and I thought it was an interesting subject.

I apologize for offending you, and appreciate your participation. Thank you.

Sincerely,

k

_____________________________

Life is tough, that does not mean it isn't fair.

There is no wrong choice, only consequence.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 14

RE: surrenering or ? - 6/13/2007 11:44:48 AM

RCdc

Posts: 8674
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Milivoje

IMO players seek to surrender.

Lifestylers seek to mutually explore.

Oooo... sweeping generalisation again!

Nothing wrong with being a player hey. I have know some fantastic players.

Depends on your sport.

Is it your opinion to pigonhole all people into neat little boxes?

People aren't shaped like boxes - a box is rigid - doesn't allow for any growth or mutual exploration unless it is too big to begin with and then that is a complete waste of space.

I mutually explore with Darcy and BDSM is just life and I am me - full stop.

Surrender is giving into the inevitable. No more no less.

Peace

the.dark.

_____________________________

RC&dc

love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to Milivoje)

Post #: 15

RE: surrenering or ? - 6/13/2007 11:46:48 AM

Shantra

Posts: 41
Joined: 3/29/2007
Status: offline

beth of Mercnbeth.. yeah.. what she said!

(in reply to RCdc)

Post #: 16

RE: surrenering or ? - 6/13/2007 11:59:17 AM

MagiksSlave

Posts: 2768
Joined: 9/11/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: happypervert

quote:

“The submissive yields to His power and surrenders herself, body and mind, completely to His control.”

. . . and then they ride off to a castle in the sky in a carriage drawn by pink unicorns.

Yeah, I agree with you. That statement above sounds like it came from someone who read the Castles Realm website or too many Harlequin Romance novels.

Oh and I was so hopeing for rainbow unicorns!!!

LOL yeah but I thought basically the same, very romantisiesed and unrealistic but sounds like a good hook to get some!!

Magik's slave

_____________________________

If you’re going through hell keep on moving
don't slow down
if you’re scared dont show it
you might get out
before the devil even knows your there.

-Rodney Atkins-

(in reply to happypervert)

Post #: 17

RE: surrenering or ? - 6/13/2007 12:07:19 PM

octavia

Posts: 377
Joined: 5/20/2007
Status: offline

quote:

“The submissive yields to His power and surrenders herself, body and mind, completely to His control.”

This is a statement, from an e-mail I received. While I understand what the author is saying, something about the word “surrender” does not feel right to me, in a D/s context.

To me, it implies defeat; that I have/would be giving up something/self.

It would seem more accurate to say, a good D/s relationship would cause the submissive to open up, and connect with their Dom; or is it just me?

I do hear a difference for sure in how these are worded. The first example is said in such a way as to state that the person submitting is actively doing so. Making a choice to. The second one is passive. It suggests that something outside of her is going to "make" it happen. Relieves her of taking any personal responsibility for the action of submission. Just an interesting FYI here. But that original quote would be just as applicable in reference to a spiritual experience as well, surrendering to a higher power. The second one also keeps the two roles, Dom and sub as equals whereas the first clearly raises the Master above his sub.
Just mho as always,
octavia

quote:

ORIGINAL: Celeste43

To me surrendering has a nuance of resignation, of unhappiness. ....

Yeah, Im one of those people that is the opposite. For me the idea of surrender has nuance of peace and relief and happiness. If and when I find someone who is strong enough and like minded enough to be able to trust enough to surrender too..... I mean, that is why I am here. That is what I seek.

(in reply to Celeste43)

Post #: 18

RE: surrenering or ? - 6/13/2007 12:08:58 PM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

As someone who leans towards Zen/Tao views of life, surrendering is definitely a positive thing.

As a friend very eloquently put it, surrender doesn't mean that when it rains, you accept and get wet and don't do anything. It means you surrender to what you are/where you are/what life brings you and go from there. You still go into the house, get the umbrella and take care of business, but you accept/surrender to what IS, and that is where you find bliss.

< Message edited by LuckyAlbatross -- 6/13/2007 12:09:20 PM >

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to MagiksSlave)

Post #: 19

RE: surrenering or ? - 6/13/2007 12:21:21 PM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: charmdpetKeira

...I apologize for offending you...

you didn't...and it wouldn't be the first time someone took what this slave said and attributed some other sort of intent behind it other than the helpful spirit of which her opinion was offered, so, no worries.

quote:

... and appreciate your participation. Thank you...

you are most welcome.

quote:

...Considering the fact, you agreed with the way I defined the word; I am unsure how you see what I said as picking the word apart...

whether this slave agrees with your definition or not, this slave didn't specifically accuse YOU of anything---it was merely an observation about some folks, not necessarily YOU, unless you want to include yourself in the group, that this slave has encountered who find fun in the pastime of responding to the creation of a thread designed to discuss the implications and meanings of one individual word in a BDSM context, be it slave/sub/Master/surrender/beauty/art...which then lends itself to that word being picked apart/individually defined/discussed/argued/debated, potentially ad infinitum by many subsequent posters...and YAY, isn't that why some folks respond to posts here...not just to nod in agreement, but to offer their thoughts, even if(and sometimes especially if) they disagree?

(in reply to charmdpetKeira)

Post #: 20

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