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RE: Help...we need somebody - 6/14/2007 11:37:39 AM   
earthycouple


Posts: 4462
Joined: 2/19/2006
Status: offline 		Using bottom as an all encompasing term so I don't have type sub/slave/bottom 80 times.

Who helps me learn and grow?  I have had years of learning and growth not only with my bottoms who are the epitome of "help" because they are the ones who tell me when I fuck up.  And damn it, I do.  We all do.  My bottom knows up front that I expect feedback from them so I can learn and grow.  I need to know if while doing that flogging my aim was off an inch and it was uncomfortable.  I want to know if I forgot to check in during a heavy scene.  I expect them to tell me.  I expect them to feel safe enough to feel comfortable in telling me.  If they don't then I'm already fucking up.

Beyond my bottom being the utmost in teaching before, during and after the fact; I personally attend functions, read books, and come here to learn more.  Functions include conventions with renowned presenters.  I take these opportunities not only to learn but to volunteer/assist to give back to my kink community.  Functions also include munches, clubs and dungeons.  I not only go to these to enjoy myself, hang out, meet people but to learn something, practice my techniques and bounce ideas of others. 

As for who I am as a person, day to day...I need help with that too.  I'm not a perfect person (ask anyone who disagrees with something I've said on these boards *S*).  I grow and flourish just like everyone else.  I screw up, someone tells me, I learn from it.  My husband, my family, my employers, my friends and my bottoms all assist me in this.  Most of all though it is me who helps me in this.  I know what I don't like about me.  I work on it and I have people (my husband mostly) who throw in their two cents when I need to be put in check. 

Now let's address what I feel to be the real question.  "Why don't we hear or read about the dominant getting help to improve?"   Because bottoms don't write profiles that say "I will help you grow".  They write profiles that say "I want to learn and grow".  Because like a manager a dominant is "supposed to" have a clue.  Trust me....not all do.  I have been doing this round about 14 years now. I was clueless 12 years ago.  Today I have a clue but still need hints and nudges on occassion. 

Presume for a moment a dominant and a submissive meet and like each other:  Bottoms are working hard to fit into what a dominant wants and needs.  Some of us want very specific things and when a match is made, but not perfect, the dominant may compromise some, but if the bottoms wants to make it work, more likely than not, in my opinion, the bottom will bend further to accomplish said goal.  I find overall a good submissive is more compromising than a good dominant as a general rule.  (Please realize I know this is not the case for everyone...I happen to be one of those flexibendy straw type dominants myself)

I am very wary of anyone (top or bottom) who claims to be "all that" then learn they have less than 5 years experience or their experiences have been hit and miss/here or there. 

_____________________________

D~

Seeking, searching, hoping, living, loving, jumping. So what's new with you?

(in reply to dawntreader)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Help...we need somebody - 6/14/2007 11:39:46 AM   
YourShyPet


Posts: 185
Joined: 6/30/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: drawntothedark

I would hope that when two people come together that postive things happen on both sides. I know that from our relationship it's what we want.




Exactly drawntothedark.... that positive things happen, and that they enhance each other... thats the way I feel about me and my Daddy.

kittin

(in reply to drawntothedark)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Help...we need somebody - 6/14/2007 11:40:35 AM   
Wildfleurs


Posts: 1650
Joined: 9/24/2004
From: Connecticut
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Elegant

My questions:
Do Masters/Dominants enter into relationships perfect themselves?

Do all Master/s/Dominants assume the slaves/submissives are lacking in these areas?

Who helps the Masters/Dominants...
  • Make them all that they can be and then allow them to exceed that
  • lead them towards a better and more full life
  • Improve their life as an individual
  • flourish in their mastery
  • with their understanding of themselves and their desires
  • reach goals
  • capitalize on their strengths, to help them overcome their weaknesses and to help them blossom like a flower.
Why do so many people focus on 'improving' the slave/submissive but overlook improving the Dominant/Master?


I don't think for either of us the focus is on self-improvement.  I'm pretty capable and I was running my life just fine before my owner and now he runs my life just fine.  And if he were hit by a car tommorow I'd re-learn/re-takeover running my life just fine.

I think for some people, the person that controls things is implicitly assumed to be the person thats most capable of making decisions (and in some cases the dominant is just the more competent and capable person and the submissive is looking for a life coach teacher).  For us its more that we are both capable competent people who just happen to be happier in a relationship under which he/my owner is the one making the decisions.  It doesn't have to do with competency, but rather with preferences on who does it.

C~


_____________________________

"Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid." -despair.com

~~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
The heart of it all - http://www.wildfleurs.com
~~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~

(in reply to Elegant)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Help...we need somebody - 6/14/2007 11:52:01 AM   
MagiksSlave


Posts: 2768
Joined: 9/11/2006
Status: offline 		I dont know about anyone els but Master and my ralationship is based on give and take. There are many ways he helps me be a better slave and there are many ways I help him be a better Master. I never bought into the whole "I am Master so I am perfect and need no help you are slave there for you are flawed and I must save you" mentality and I sought a Master who didnt beleave in it eather. We help eachother learn in grow in our respective roles.

Id like ONE Dom to come here and tell me that they where able to learn and grow as a Dom without ANY aid of a sub or slave at all. It isnt possable!! Because without a sub or slave to practice things on and learn how to be a Dom hands on there is just not a lot of growth. I chalange one person to say reading and watching is enough to learn and to call one self a skilled Master/Dom (and I mean to say and actually mean it)

Magik's slave

_____________________________

If you’re going through hell keep on moving
don't slow down
if you’re scared dont show it
you might get out
before the devil even knows your there.


-Rodney Atkins-



(in reply to MadRabbit)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Help...we need somebody - 6/14/2007 12:06:08 PM   
BeingChewsie


Posts: 1633
Joined: 10/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

If all these submissives and slaves are such independent, mature, and consenting adults, then why do they need to find other people to make decisions for them?


I didn't need an owner to improve me so I clipped that part but I can answer this one:

Because I don't like being the decision maker, period, amen. I much prefer to have someone else make the decisions, it makes *my*  life so much more peaceful. To make sure it isn't disruptive to the life of the men I get involved with I make sure that being the decision maker is what makes *their* lives more peaceful.


_____________________________

"In fact, it is my contention that most women are accepting of way less than optimal circumstance constantly, and are lucky to be 'snagged' by the right man, if ever. But it is more by happy accident than by their design. "
~Ron and Hup

(in reply to MadRabbit)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Help...we need somebody - 6/14/2007 12:11:00 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		The problem is all the people responding are, at least at this moment, in happy fulfilling cooperative relationships. :)

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to BeingChewsie)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Help...we need somebody - 6/14/2007 12:18:33 PM   
drawntothedark


Posts: 572
Joined: 10/19/2006
From: Arkansas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

The problem is all the people responding are, at least at this moment, in happy fulfilling cooperative relationships. :)


Good point.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Help...we need somebody - 6/14/2007 12:21:44 PM   
MasterFireMaam


Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline 		My girl has truly supported me and my growth a great deal. Case in point:

We went to the last Butchmanns (an intermediate level one) together, initially as Master and slave. anne had been feeling ungrounded and she was feeling that she really needed her Master. I was there to 1) attend the event and 2) be her Master as much as her role of instructor allowed. When I was lead to be a slave for the weekend (a surprise for everyone including ME), that meant taking her Master away. But, I felt spiritually lead to do it.

A friend of hers was pretty mad at me because it could be seen like I was abandoning her and not taking up my duties as Master. But, as anne and I talked through the weekend, as slave sisters, we realized that this wasn't what was happening. This was me being obediant to my higher power as she is obedient to me (and her own higher power). That I sat naked beside her all weekend and we talked about "her Master" as if she wasn't there, we became much, much closer. It was truly a positive thing for us because it showed us that as long as I am being obedient, the end result is a positive thing.

After my slave collar was removed, we had a chance to talk and spend time as Master and slave. she felt so much more grounded because she now knows that she can trust me to do what I feel is my path, which means I am being true to OUR path. Instead of breaking us or even damaging us, the situation made us much stronger.

she could have begged me to not do it. she could have left the event. she could refused to give up the protocol for the weekend. But she didn't. And, because she honored me and my decision, it solidified a little more to me what it means to be not only A Master, but HER Master.

Master Fire


_____________________________

The power of who we are can be intoxicating. The power of who we could be is humbling.
-----
Ms Relationship Books
-----
BDSM How-To Books

(in reply to Elegant)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Help...we need somebody - 6/14/2007 12:29:35 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		That's is so beautiful and totally freaking awesome- and exactly how my partner and I feel.  We care most about being true to ourselves and connecting together, whereever the energy takes us.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to MasterFireMaam)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Help...we need somebody - 6/14/2007 12:31:03 PM   
MadRabbit


Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BeingChewsie

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

If all these submissives and slaves are such independent, mature, and consenting adults, then why do they need to find other people to make decisions for them?


I didn't need an owner to improve me so I clipped that part but I can answer this one:

Because I don't like being the decision maker, period, amen. I much prefer to have someone else make the decisions, it makes *my*  life so much more peaceful. To make sure it isn't disruptive to the life of the men I get involved with I make sure that being the decision maker is what makes *their* lives more peaceful.



I assure you those were all rhetorical questions...just an example as how it goes both ways and isnt all us egotistical Doms who are making the stereotype.

_____________________________

Advice for New Dominants
The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

(in reply to BeingChewsie)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Help...we need somebody - 6/14/2007 12:35:01 PM   
subsfaith


Posts: 297
Joined: 11/21/2006
Status: offline 		Great post!

I will answer the questions in order from my perspective.

1. Do Masters/Dominants enter into relationships perfect themselves?
No, no-one is perfect.

2.  Do all Master/s/Dominants assume the slaves/submissives are lacking in these areas?
Firstly, assumption is rarely good, and for me, if I just met a dom, I would be quite offended if he assumed anything.  But this question does tie in nicely with the first.  If no-one is perfect, then there is ALWAYS room for improvement.  In addition to that, life is a journey that only stops when we die, personal growth should always be addressed regardless of what end of the whip you are.

3. Who helps the Masters/Dominants...?
To answer all the bullet points:  I help my Master with all of those.  That doesn't mean to say that he is incompetent in any way, but it is my role to compliment him in all areas of his life.  For example, Sir is quite anti-social (in common with another poster), and I am over-social, so he has supported me in closing in my social circle to just my very close friends and I have supported him in building a better social network.

4.  Why do so many people focus on 'improving' the slave/submissive but overlook improving the Dominant/Master?
Do they?  Well if that is the case, more fool them! But I take your point that this topic is rarely discussed, certainly in comparison to the submissive perspective.  Perhaps there are more people out there who would benefit from further discussion?  Perhaps they should be asking the questions themselves within their relationships?

A final thought: My Master without me is just a bloke who is dominant, it is only at the point where he masters me that he becomes A Master, and equally, without him, I am just a bird who is submissive, but not A submissive.  It is only together that we are able to grow into the people we want to become.

Peace out.
Faith

:: smiles ::

(in reply to Elegant)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Help...we need somebody - 6/14/2007 12:36:15 PM   
MadRabbit


Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

The problem is all the people responding are, at least at this moment, in happy fulfilling cooperative relationships. :)


Techinically, I'm not. Somewhere in the initial stages of a future one. I just dont fancy myself a God.

_____________________________

Advice for New Dominants
The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Help...we need somebody - 6/14/2007 12:44:04 PM   
MasterFireMaam


Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: peepeegirl5

There are no "stable" partners.

Therefore, collect a stable of partners.

Love them, fix them, and promptly return them to the wild...

Don't be a mooch/freeloader and don't let them be either.

Born free ;)


Is this satyrical?

Master Fire


_____________________________

The power of who we are can be intoxicating. The power of who we could be is humbling.
-----
Ms Relationship Books
-----
BDSM How-To Books

(in reply to peepeegirl5)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Help...we need somebody - 6/14/2007 12:49:30 PM   
slaveluci


Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Wildfleurs
I'm pretty capable and I was running my life just fine before my owner and now he runs my life just fine.  And if he were hit by a car tommorow I'd re-learn/re-takeover running my life just fine.
I think for some people, the person that controls things is implicitly assumed to be the person thats most capable of making decisions (and in some cases the dominant is just the more competent and capable person and the submissive is looking for a life coach teacher).  For us its more that we are both capable competent people who just happen to be happier in a relationship under which he/my owner is the one making the decisions.  It doesn't have to do with competency, but rather with preferences on who does it.
C~

....my sentiments exactly.........slave luci

_____________________________

To choose a good book, look in an inquisitor’s prohibited list. ~John Aikin

(in reply to Wildfleurs)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Help...we need somebody - 6/14/2007 12:50:50 PM   
tricia


Posts: 231
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		My Master is not perfect.  He’s human.  Deliciously flawed.  Honestly, looking back, I don’t believe my presence in his world has ‘improved’ him in any way.  It’s brightened it, enriched it ….
 
I don’t want an equal.  I want someone who is better than me.  Someone I look up to.  And trust.  And Idolize.  And obey.  Perhaps that is my kink.  But it works for him and for me.

quote:


Cuz they prefer to put the sub in the passive/following type position.  It makes them feel fuzzier.


I am a passive person who isn’t comfortable being a leader.  I don’t think there is anything necessarily wrong with that.  It doesn’t make me submissive – it makes me tricia :)
 
And only because it was brought up....

quote:


Because without a sub or slave to practice things on and learn how to be a Dom hands on there is just not a lot of growth.


quote:


I am very wary of anyone (top or bottom) who claims to be "all that" then learn they have less than 5 years experience or their experiences have been hit and miss/here or there. 


I don’t need practice/experience being submissive.  Nor does he need practice/experience being a dominant male.

(in reply to Elegant)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Help...we need somebody - 6/14/2007 12:52:32 PM   
MasterFireMaam


Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

What is so wrong with all these submissives that they need to find someone to improve thier lives?

Nothing...but the OP was presenting the idea that Masters need to find someone to improve THIER lives. Another case in point: I'm eating total crap/junk these days. It's a symptom of not feeling up to par, emotionally. I don't have the energy to cook or go out, really, and I'm craving salt and fat like mad, so I eat potato chips and protein bars. I NEED a slave in my life who will plop healthy things in front of me when I'm like this. I'd eat it if is just appeared.

quote:

If all these submissives and slaves are such independent, mature, and consenting adults, then why do they need to find other people to make decisions for them?

Because is fulfills them to allow this. This is what the transfer of authority is all about. It isn't about "fixing" people or about the inability to make your own decisions. It's about giving over what you can do to another because you feel so lead.

Master Fire


_____________________________

The power of who we are can be intoxicating. The power of who we could be is humbling.
-----
Ms Relationship Books
-----
BDSM How-To Books

(in reply to MadRabbit)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Help...we need somebody - 6/14/2007 12:56:16 PM   
chellekitty


Posts: 3923
Joined: 3/27/2005
Status: offline 		Fast Reply...

i am not in a "happy fulfilling cooperative relationship"...i have no collar on my neck and it bothers me...that being said...i am ok...i am doing just fine on my own, i don't need someone to fix me, i don't even appreciate someone attempting to fix me...i am not a (fill in the blank) to be fixed and released...because thats what people who fix things do, they fix it and send it on it's merry way...
now the original topic...i am a great teacher if i do say so myself...anything i know how to do, i can teach someone else...i have patience galore when teaching yet when you ask me to wait 20 minutes before we go to the swimming pool i am whining the whole time...so i have a whole head full of stuff, just waiting to be asked about...but at the same time i don't presume that everyone wants to know everything i do, so i take the passive role and wait till they ask...
wrong or right, i am me...
chelle

(in reply to MadRabbit)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Help...we need somebody - 6/14/2007 1:11:11 PM   
imthatacheyouhav


Posts: 1259
Joined: 4/16/2007
Status: offline 		i feel like my Master isn't so much trying to improve me, but rather refine the submissiveness i give to Him. It seems He is molding me into His image of  His slave. I do have to say the primary focus is on our intiment relationship and communication with each other. This seems to be where His focus is and so i assume its very important to Him. He learns i believe from just being who He is, and by choosing to grow and adjust to new thoughts, philosophies and ideas as He sees fit.

< Message edited by imthatacheyouhav -- 6/14/2007 2:01:21 PM >

_____________________________

*if you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything*
**collared July 22 2007 by LordKen**

(in reply to chellekitty)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Help...we need somebody - 6/14/2007 1:48:34 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Elegant
Why do so many people focus on 'improving' the slave/submissive but overlook improving the Dominant/Master?


DISCLAIMER:  merely this slave's ever-so-humble opinion and 40 years of life experience observing D/s to follow...
 
because our American society rewards, praises and accepts "natural" or "acquired" dominance or dominant traits in an individual(regardless of gender or sexual preference) and sends submissive/ (or GOD-FORBID) "slave" to the psycho-babblists for behavioral therapy and/or meds.
 
it then gets reflected in the subset of society that interacts here

(in reply to Elegant)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Help...we need somebody - 6/14/2007 1:58:00 PM   
LightHeartedMaam


Posts: 296
Joined: 5/12/2007
Status: offline 		Because submissives have this idealized/romantic concept of the Dom/me being able to do all things with expertise and some Dom/mes actually believe they are :)

I'm getting rather weary of the occasion submissive posts that  put down the very dominance they so seek.  The only disappointment they experience are the result of their own "fuzzies".  Save face-blame the Dom/me. 

_____________________________

Now that I'm older, I thought it was great that it seems I have more patience. Turns out, that I just don't give a sh*t.

(in reply to Elegant)
Profile   Post #: 40
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