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RE: Help...we need somebody - 6/14/2007 8:42:09 PM   
crouchingtigress


Posts: 4387
Joined: 3/19/2006
From: Maui
Status: offline 		all humans, every single one, with no exceptions, are infinitely beautiful and wholly complete, not a single one of us better or worse,...once you know that, truly, madly and deeply know that, the idea of some one needing to be perfect., or infallible, or omnipotent, becomes awfully redundant....

and it is at that point that the 'fallibility' in your partner becomes a joyful thing to explore..... in yourself of all people.

_____________________________


Service slut, durable plaything, and ponypenquincatdogpig, to Lee Harrington

This is him

"Its none of my buisness what other people think of me."




(in reply to LightHeartedMaam)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: Help...we need somebody - 6/14/2007 8:42:47 PM   
Archer


Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		Wow are you reading something into her post that isn't there. Certainly the fact that there are hundreds of posts about how a submissive grows and improves at the hand of the dominant, and a far lesser number of posts about how a dominant party gains new insight and where they get their growth from hasn't eluded you.

It's not a dominant bashing thread, it's a thread bashing the lack of posting from dominant parties being honest about what they gain on levels not characterized by sexual gain or housework type service.
If we as dominant parties cannot honestly evaluate where we get our growth from and survive the acknowledgement still secure in our place, that it is something that is in no small part due to the relationships we have with our submissive counterparts. Then I would contend that any dominance we tout is weak at best.


Boiled down the post is asking a simple question about the group of posters to the boards as a whole.

"Why do so many people focus on 'improving' the slave/submissive but overlook improving the Dominant/Master?"

Is there a socalized expectation that Masters and Dominants need no improvement?
Is there a social stigma attached to the idea of needing improvement, that goes against the credibilty of a person claiming dominance or mastery?

Looking at the facts is not putting domiants down it is exposing to the light of day the expectations and asking if these are really the expectations we want to put forth, or do we want to change the expectations.

(in reply to LightHeartedMaam)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: Help...we need somebody - 6/14/2007 8:43:42 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BeingChewsie

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

If all these submissives and slaves are such independent, mature, and consenting adults, then why do they need to find other people to make decisions for them?


I didn't need an owner to improve me so I clipped that part but I can answer this one:

Because I don't like being the decision maker, period, amen. I much prefer to have someone else make the decisions, it makes *my*  life so much more peaceful. To make sure it isn't disruptive to the life of the men I get involved with I make sure that being the decision maker is what makes *their* lives more peaceful.



Complementarily, it makes my life more peaceful to be the one making the decisions, knowing that the one I am with will trust in my judgement and work with me to realize our goals.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to BeingChewsie)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: Help...we need somebody - 6/15/2007 5:13:33 AM   
Elegant


Posts: 1024
Joined: 3/15/2005
Status: offline
quote:

You are just another submissive asking a similar question is all.


Ahhh. And there you are wrong.

I am not 'a submissive'. I am an owned slave and I submit to Master Archer. 'Submissive' has seldom been used to describe me either as a noun or an adjective


_____________________________

Elegant
~Slave To Master Archer

http://www.FantasiesInLeather.com

(in reply to LightHeartedMaam)
Profile   Post #: 64
RE: Help...we need somebody - 12/3/2007 12:25:13 PM   
GoddessTeaze


Posts: 1125
Joined: 10/14/2006
From: The Netherlands
Status: offline 		Hello Elegant,

what a Great post you wrote !
quote:

My questions:
Do Masters/Dominants enter into relationships perfect themselves?


What is perfect?
I don't paint it anymore more beautiful then reality is.
I also have My ups and downs, and as human as everyone else.
It's a mith to B perfect as a Dominant. People who say they are...
Oh well that says more about them, then anyone else.

quote:

Do all Master/s/Dominants assume the slaves/submissives are lacking in these areas?

Hell No !
Wwe all live and learn everyday. Nor any sub is perfect. It's nice to help eachother grow. And get the most out of life ! It's a part of being Dominant I love :) And that doesn't stop with My own lilsubbygirl. But also with My friends around Me!
quote:

Who helps the Masters/Dominants...

I recently lost a sub, and My girl stood by Me all the way, as well as My friends did, I'm not too good to not show emotions. I'm not gonne fake I'm alright when I'm not. I'm Me, with My strong and weak sides. Just as human as everyone else.
And I loved her for being there My true littlesweet1.

Great to read all the replies to this issue :D
and Yes Archer, You're a lucky Man :)

Warm Greetingz

GoddezzT`


_____________________________

~* The only disability in life is a bad attitude. ~Scott Hamilton*~

~*Beauty is not in the face; beauty is a light in the heart. ~Kahlil Gibran*~

(in reply to Elegant)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: Help...we need somebody - 12/3/2007 12:37:19 PM   
wisteriaV


Posts: 438
Joined: 3/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Elegant


My questions:
Do Masters/Dominants enter into relationships perfect themselves?
No otherwise their farts wouldn't stink and wake you up in the middle of the night.

Do all Master/s/Dominants assume the slaves/submissives are lacking in these areas?
No, they accept the fact that when they fart they can stink too, you just work with what youve got and make it better if possible.
Who helps the Masters/Dominants...

  • Make them all that they can be and then allow them to exceed that
  • lead them towards a better and more full life
  • Improve their life as an individual
  • flourish in their mastery
  • with their understanding of themselves and their desires
  • reach goals
  • capitalize on their strengths, to help them overcome their weaknesses and to help them blossom like a flower.

           If they are smart, they will look to others and also their slave.
Why do so many people focus on 'improving' the slave/submissive but overlook improving the Dominant/Master?

Master has always told me he wasn't perfect...he didn't expect me to be either..I can't speak for other people.

_____________________________

Every story has two sides , much like a coin and neither one is totally perfect.
If it doesn't float your boat, then don't get in the water~!

(in reply to Elegant)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: Help...we need somebody - 12/3/2007 12:42:43 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		The truth is that we both learn from each other. But we prefer this in our relationship because him being the teacher and me the innocent student feels good. Judging by the popularity of 'naughty schoolgirl play' I imagine we aren't alone.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


(in reply to MadRabbit)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: Help...we need somebody - 12/3/2007 1:23:18 PM   
Argentopal


Posts: 379
Joined: 12/12/2005
From: Central Texas / Hill Country
Status: offline 		We have grown together over many years, and he often tells me the many ways in which I have helped him be a better person, not the least of which is that in wanted to be the best person he can be for me he becomes a better person for himself.  He does still, on occasion, actually ask me what he can do to help me be or do something.  I usually have several answers for him, as I fall far short of many of my personal goals and as I continue to change and grow my goals and needs change as well.  For us I think it is and always has been a 2 way street of helping each other grow and achieve new goals.
I don't think it has to ever be mutually exclusive, in any good relationship all partners should help one another.



_____________________________

He held out His hand and said "Step into the abyss with me."

... and i did.


~Surrender without Fear~
~Power without Guilt~
~Love without Doubt~

(in reply to MadRabbit)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: Help...we need somebody - 12/3/2007 1:46:20 PM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MercTech

Does not a person enter a relationship looking for something to complete themselves, whatever that something may be?

Stefan


No, some of us would enter a relationship with a person that compliments them. I am complete as I am. Not perfect, far far from it, but complete yes. I will only enter a relationship with a person who's imperfections, (and strengths) compliment my own.


_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to MercTech)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: Help...we need somebody - 12/3/2007 1:52:05 PM   
orfunboi


Posts: 1223
Joined: 10/22/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

OK OK LA I'll stop with the gushing, LOL.



oh, go ahead and gush, it's a nice change from the whining thread i just left.

(in reply to Archer)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: Help...we need somebody - 12/3/2007 1:59:50 PM   
ghitaPVH


Posts: 1363
Joined: 11/14/2007
Status: offline 		This is the second half of my profile...it talks about about your same topic elegant....im being lazy right now, Id type it all out better and differently except I was just told I have to log off....bah...

quote:

I am not a doormat. I have opinions which I state without hesitation. This doesnt make me any "less" of anything. I am a compleate person. I can think intellegently, I can make decisions when they are needed. Why would I choose to belong to someone who does not respect me and love me for the person I already am? Why do Doms feel the need to rip a woman to shreds and degrade her, only with the pretense of rebuilding her? Why not take a woman for who she is already?

Its the lazy submissive to hunts for a Master to "mold" her or to "shape" her. An intellegent girl should be able to self correct, to be able to think for herself, to strive to be pleasing. Not sit back and wait for someone to "teach" her what to do and say.

"Any redneck can swing a whip on a bound woman and yell at her"

Be a Man. Exude honor, integrity, responsibility, accountability, and pride. Accomplish that and you will find that woman who is so willing to please that you no longer need the bindings or the yelling,  there is nothing you could ask of her that she wouldnt willingly do.


_____________________________

Don't expect anything of me and I promise I'll never disappoint you.

"The true man wants two things: danger and play. For that reason he wants woman, as the most dangerous plaything. --Nietzsche"

(in reply to orfunboi)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: Help...we need somebody - 12/3/2007 3:00:36 PM   
LittleWench


Posts: 265
Joined: 11/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

Why do so many people focus on 'improving' the slave/submissive but overlook improving the Dominant/Master?


Talking solely in the context of CM topics...

The theme that consistently comes up in threads where a slave has the audacity to suggest that a Dom/Master improve in an area is that they are topping from the bottom... when it seems to me that the one person who has the greatest insight into where their Top can improve or has room for growth is their bottom.  shrug

The theme that consistently comes up in threads where a Master asks for help or admits there are areas in their life that need improving is criticism, scorn, "grow a pair" is one of my favourites, oh oh "dump the bitch" is another classic if the suggestion or need/desire for change came from a female sub, they are told they are being topped from the bottom because otherwise why would they want to change, and so many other responses that I imagine would make it difficult for a Dom/Master to admit that he had any weaknesses.

(in reply to Elegant)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: Help...we need somebody - 12/3/2007 4:33:28 PM   
Lumus


Posts: 5968
Joined: 9/16/2007
Status: offline 		I've made comments in a few posts about the positive effect my girl has had on me.  It's not all one-sided, this "improvement" shtick.

I can and will freely say here that I'm far from perfect.  Saying that I was beyond improvement would be a lie.  Knowing that, when I find something in myself that I dislike [or have it pointed out to me], I work on it.  If others can help me, great.

Perhaps that is part of the issue.  A good 'Boss' who wants to 'improve' others should be willing to hold the mirror up to themselves.  If we run with that assumption, then Dom[me]s are already aware that they can be better than they are and are working towards that, instead of posting about it.   I don't say that to detract from the submissives who wish to post or journal how their lives improve under guidance.  However, isn't that the key?  A Dominant figure will stereotypically [please note the use of the word!  I'm not making a generalization to pull the blanket over everyone] oversee, manage, groom, shape; likewise, a submissive figure will stereotypically learn and demonstrate.  It is not expected or assumed that the Dominant figure seeks to learn from the submissive, although, of course

*many of Us do!*

So, you get the one-sided posting.  The submissive probably expects to learn, and gladly voices when they do.  The Dominant does not assume they will be taught, and may prefer to show their appreciation and respect personally, as opposed to publicly.

Trust me, Dominants learn from submissives; don't judge by the media, or I'll have to direct you to the 'Off Topic' section.




_____________________________

<Talk to educate; listen to learn.>

~ the other half of "L&L" ~

I have been dubbed the Rainmaker. Do not make me take your water for my tribe.

(in reply to LittleWench)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: Help...we need somebody - 12/3/2007 5:37:12 PM   
adoracat


Posts: 1779
Joined: 2/16/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

What is so wrong with all these submissives that they need to find someone to improve thier lives?

If all these submissives and slaves are such independent, mature, and consenting adults, then why do they need to find other people to make decisions for them?


i'll happily admit i am not an independent adult.  i've got some physical problems that have lead to loss of physical, emotional, and intellectual control.  do i NEED a Daddy?  i could get along without one, yes.

do i NEED a dominant?  it makes my life better if i have a loving, caring dominant in my life.  but i am not just his slave, i'm also someone who loves him, who listens to him, who gives him suggestions to improve his life, who tries to improve his life myself, who does what she can to make him happy.  and according to Daddy, i'm doing well at those things.

what i have is a symbiotic relationship with Daddy.  we each nurture and support the other, and each of our lives is richer for it.

kitten, who's been thinking about these things before she saw the thread

(in reply to MadRabbit)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: Help...we need somebody - 12/3/2007 6:53:14 PM   
Missokyst


Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline 		I tend to view men with those platitudes in their profile with skepticism.  I don't know anyone that is perfect.  I am pretty comfy when I am submissive so I don't really need that helping me to grow stuff.  I see those phrases as lines used to lure newbies.
In any relationship I have had, we learn from eachother.
Kyst

_____________________________

pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding ~Gibran, Kahlil

“The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for.”
― Bob Marley


(in reply to Elegant)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: Help...we need somebody - 12/3/2007 7:00:51 PM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Elegant


My questions:
Do Masters/Dominants enter into relationships perfect themselves?

 
I did.... I am a Perfect Asshole!
 
 
 
quote:


Do all Master/s/Dominants assume the slaves/submissives are lacking in these areas?


No assumption... it's fact!

quote:



Who helps the Masters/Dominants...

  • Make them all that they can be and then allow them to exceed that
  • lead them towards a better and more full life
  • Improve their life as an individual
  • flourish in their mastery
  • with their understanding of themselves and their desires
  • reach goals
  • capitalize on their strengths, to help them overcome their weaknesses and to help them blossom like a flower.



We don't need help.... it's kind of like a man asking for directions or looking at instructions when building something....    It just never happens!

quote:


Why do so many people focus on 'improving' the slave/submissive but overlook improving the Dominant/Master?


mmmmm maybe because slaves/submissives are so fucked up!  and us Dominants/Master are prefect!!






THEN AGAIN..... NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

< Message edited by KnightofMists -- 12/3/2007 7:02:06 PM >

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to Elegant)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: Help...we need somebody - 12/4/2007 12:52:56 PM   
slavegirljoy


Posts: 1207
Joined: 11/6/2006
From: North Carolina, USA
Status: offline 		Not really sure why so many seem to feel that submissives need  "improvements" or help in "overcoming" percieved weaknesses/faults.  No one is perfect.  Everyone has their strentghs and faults and, to me, that's what makes us each unique.

my Master has no desire to "fix" me or make me over.  He accepts me, with my strengths and weaknesses, with my flaws and with my assets.

i am the best fit for my Master, just as i am, and my Master is the best fit for me, just as He is.

Both of Uus value learning and positive growth.  Wwe learn from each other, as well as from life.  Being His slave has enhanced my life and i have enhanced His life.  Wwe are continually growing in a positive direction, individually and within Oour Master/slave relationship.  If this weren't the case, Wwe wouldn't be together.

i think some people are ill-fitted for each other but, they want to make it work so much that they try to change the other person to fit their needs and desires and some people try very hard to change themself to be what they think the other person wants but, both of these endeavors are very difficult, if not impossible to achieve and often results in a lot of frustration, hurt feelings and resentment and,  most likely, a failed relationship.

slave joy
Owned property of Master David

(in reply to Elegant)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: Help...we need somebody - 12/4/2007 2:21:01 PM   
carlie310


Posts: 256
Joined: 9/23/2007
Status: offline 		FR:

To echo what has been said in other ways by others here:  When I am in a LTR, either vanilla or other--or even simple friendship--it's my hope that each of the people in the relationship will challenge the other to grow.  If a sub hands over some authority in her (or his) life to a Dom, that Dom has to have enough ducks in a row to handle that challenge. 

One of the gentlemen I have been in frequent contact with has reminded me multiple times that Doms are people, and therefore as open to make mistakes as everyone else.  (There is a bit of the White Knight/Perils of Pauline dynamic at play, we've both acknowledged that.)  I think that being able to grow with a partner, challenge and help bring out the better parts is one of the richest benefits of any ship.

(in reply to MadRabbit)
Profile   Post #: 78
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