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RE: Law Enforcement and Cynicism - 6/24/2007 6:30:20 AM

GeekyGirl

Posts: 905
Joined: 8/21/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

Geeky: while you appear to going thru' some kind of job related crisis I dont think you should be quite so apologetic. We do not live in a perfect world so the job you do needs to be done. NO ? Maybe improvement is possible, I expect so, but I dont think there would be concensus on what constitutes improvement.

If I had control of prison policy the "crims" would absolutely hate me, I wouldnt give a monkeys, other than what might happen after the release of the more violent cunning psychopaths..

Is it true that in those maximum security prisons in the US inmates are locked in solitary for long periods of time ? Even I wouldn't impose that !

I don't work in a supermax, so I can only speak for my jail, which houses all levels.

There are inmates who are placed in segration for reasons of disciplinary infraction or safety.

After being written a disciplinary case, and having a hearing, if the inmate is found guilty, he may be placed on 30 days segregation. They get 3hrs of gym time a week, 1 hr each on 3 separate days, and are confined to their cell for 23hrs a day.

Other inmates, due to escape risk behavior or assaultive behavior, OR due to witness protection or high profile, may be placed in the same situation...depending on their threat level, they will either be in the above situation or a slightly more moderate one that allows about 6hrs out of the cell per day. Their cases are reviewed at least every 30 days to decide if they need to remain in such housing.

quote:

Quite often, I suspect projection....for some, if they had a badge and power, they would abuse it, so they cannot conceive of the notion that there are others who would not.

Thank you, and very wonderful observation!

Stella, I'm glad you understood what I mean. Technically we do have a lot of policies and proceudures...but likewise, in regards to small infractions of jail rules, we are told to "use our common sense" and "Pick your battles wisely."

So what we are told is often contradictory. "Make them follow the rules..."..."But not too closely..."

_____________________________

"It's nothing that I understand, but when in your arms you have complete power over me. So be gentle if you please, 'cause your hands are in my hair, but my heart is in your teeth and it makes me want to make you near me always."

(in reply to seeksfemslave)

Post #: 41

RE: Law Enforcement and Cynicism - 6/24/2007 5:28:40 PM

SimplyMichael

Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070624/ap_on_re_us/pregnant_woman_dead

I bet she wished she never dated a cop!

(in reply to GeekyGirl)

Post #: 42

RE: Law Enforcement and Cynicism - 6/24/2007 5:51:37 PM

dragone

Posts: 215
Joined: 5/29/2007
Status: offline

Hello; I read the posts...and must say my two cents worth. If you feel stressed in your jailer job; tough. Stress is everywhere, and don't quit; you have a steady paycheck coming in, without worry of being fired because your boss just had a beef with his/her ex, and is looking to create hell on anybody; you don't have to worry about being fired, and wondering how you'll provide for your family, the rent, house payment, car payment, food, clothes because the company has no work and is shutting down because the products are outsourced to china.

How about going to an Advertising Agency for a job; never mind that they will pay you 'shit' for your creativity, and you put together, overnight, a two million dollar campaign, you, yourself and I; and be fired, because you are not a.... 'team player'.

Just some examples of the outside; your job requires little or no input in creativity, just file and do the forms; steady pay with no worry of termination, except if you run out of crimminals; and you may get to carry a gun and kill some one with impunity; or just beat a person to death with you and your buddies with your batons, or maybe the stress of just watching will cause a grimmace or two.

Life is not fair; it's just life; so get over this BS you write and deal with it.

Besides, you say you enjoy your job...right there, you negate all you've said.

(in reply to GeekyGirl)

Post #: 43

RE: Law Enforcement and Cynicism - 6/24/2007 6:39:39 PM

GeekyGirl

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Joined: 8/21/2006
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Dragone, I do enjoy my job and plan to retire at in in 25 yrs.

The point of this thread was only to ask if others in Law enforcement felt their world view differed substantially from that of civilians (I would assume a similiar thing happens to military folks.)

_____________________________

"It's nothing that I understand, but when in your arms you have complete power over me. So be gentle if you please, 'cause your hands are in my hair, but my heart is in your teeth and it makes me want to make you near me always."

(in reply to dragone)

Post #: 44

RE: Law Enforcement and Cynicism - 6/24/2007 6:43:04 PM

farglebargle

Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline

Law Enforcement Officers *ARE* civilians.

Daryl Gates is the Asshat who turned Police into Troops.

Fucking moron.

We must never forget the difference between The Military and The Police.

Attempting to use Military as Police is bound to fail.

Attempting to use Police as Military is what Fascists do.

< Message edited by farglebargle -- 6/24/2007 6:44:05 PM >

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to GeekyGirl)

Post #: 45

RE: Law Enforcement and Cynicism - 6/24/2007 8:59:36 PM

Real0ne

Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: GeekyGirl

Hmm...I'm usually a pretty honest person. I will admit to being a little crazy by most people's standards though.
One thing that that I find really shocking (and I'm just now discovering this) is that people seem to actively dislike and distrust L.E. I honest-to-gods never know that the average civilian had a such a low opinion of L.E. (but then again, I wasn't raised around average civilians.)

Funny how people bitch about the cops..but when their daughter gets raped or their car gets stolen, guess who they expect to help out? My opinion is that people who bitch about the cops shouldn't have any rights to utilize their services.

If you're really honest you wouldn't be in law enforcement in Texas. Have you been following the revelations coming out of Dallas? How many inmates in state custody are actually innocent?

I called the cops when my car was stolen because that was what my insurance required. They came out took a statement and a couple of days later they found my car, due to someone reporting a stripped car in an alley, and told me their was no evidence and no leads. My friend who had driven me out to see if there was anything of mine left in it agreed to take me from the impound lot to where the car was found. We found a compound with tall fences and lots of car parts but no business signage a block away from where my car was found. When we walked in to the local police station and talked to a detective he flat refused to investigate and implied it would be unhealthy for me to make waves on the matter.

Then of course was my high school job at a Big Boy restaurant. Late at night county deputies and state troopers commonly came in for a meal or coffee. Now we had a policy of free to go coffee for law enforcement but nothing about free meals and I was an employee when the place opened so it wasn't like previous employees were letting them eat for free but almost every one of them simply got up and walked out leaving the bill on the table.

So why shouldn't people outside of law enforcement view police etc. with a jaundiced eye?

dallas sucks but austin is the shithole of america for constitutional destruction and injustice imo well aside from washington

< Message edited by Real0ne -- 6/24/2007 9:08:30 PM >

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to DomKen)

Post #: 46

RE: Law Enforcement and Cynicism - 6/24/2007 9:07:40 PM

Real0ne

Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Law Enforcement Officers *ARE* civilians.

Daryl Gates is the Asshat who turned Police into Troops.

Fucking moron.

We must never forget the difference between The Military and The Police.

Attempting to use Military as Police is bound to fail.

Attempting to use Police as Military is what Fascists do.

funny that you would mention that!

i just got finished watching a cris rock vid the other day from a few years ago and i had to chuckle a bit. within his skit he was talking about how the maerican people reacted to 911 and very subtley succinctly slipped in "sounds a little german".

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to farglebargle)

Post #: 47

RE: Law Enforcement and Cynicism - 6/25/2007 12:13:44 AM

dragone

Posts: 215
Joined: 5/29/2007
Status: offline

I apologize; I mistakenly thought this was a free forum, as the other posts were from those who were not into LE; I'm sorry for my interuption, please disregard my post. I would have removed it, to complie with the intent of this forum, but don't know how.

Again, I apologize, and beg forgiveness, and would request total disregard of my statements.

(in reply to GeekyGirl)

Post #: 48

RE: Law Enforcement and Cynicism - 6/25/2007 12:24:21 AM

meatcleaver

Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: GeekyGirl

Hmm...I'm usually a pretty honest person. I will admit to being a little crazy by most people's standards though.

I don't think anybody is 100% honest, but I was raised to believe that dishonesty was a cardinal sin and even when I do something "wrong", I don't lie about it.

I was the kid who would come to my mom and confess about things she didn't even know I had done...I just have that inner drive to be honest, and on the rare occasions that I lie, I feel horrible about it.

And I never,ever lie at my job. I sometimes violate policy and procedure but I am ALWAYS honest about it. One thing I've learned is that my department will fire you in a heart beat for lying...most anything else, they'll just give you some time off without pay.

One thing that that I find really shocking (and I'm just now discovering this) is that people seem to actively dislike and distrust L.E. I honest-to-gods never know that the average civilian had a such a low opinion of L.E. (but then again, I wasn't raised around average civilians.)

Funny how people bitch about the cops..but when their daughter gets raped or their car gets stolen, guess who they expect to help out? My opinion is that people who bitch about the cops shouldn't have any rights to utilize their services.

The problem with honesty is that most people that profess it aren't being honest but political. We are political creatures and being honest is a political act and we are not being fundementally honest at all. I question the whole concept of fundemental honesty.

As for needing the cops should my daughter be raped or my car stolen, my question is, where are they at these times? Most likely the person to get prosecuted for car theft is not the thief but some other car thief who is willing to admit to the theft so the police won't dump more on him and the chance to bargain because he came clean LOL.

As for rape, the biggest chance is the rapist will get away with it. There is a whole bag full of problems about rape prosecutions and they're political and not for LE people.

< Message edited by meatcleaver -- 6/25/2007 12:25:31 AM >

_____________________________

There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.

(in reply to GeekyGirl)

Post #: 49

RE: Law Enforcement and Cynicism - 6/25/2007 12:26:57 AM

ericpup

Posts: 72
Joined: 1/2/2004
Status: offline

Geekygirl, I have also noticed an increase in my cynical level. It's because when we are needed or called, we're expected to be there right f'ing now, but if we stop some asshole for speeding, we hear about how we aren't anything more then traffic drones. It's a damned if you do, damned if you don't world. You posted a good question, but so far, I've read more about how cops are assholes that "enforce laws written by dead guys" then about your question. Furthermore, since you work in a prison, you don't get to deal with what I would term "citizens". All of your dealings are with inmates. At least in patrol, sometimes you get to talk to a real human being, who may just be lost, or looking for his dog, whatever.

I recommend that you read "On Combat" by Dave Grossman. He talks about mental survival in our job, and how to achieve it.

Good luck and stay safe.

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 50

RE: Law Enforcement and Cynicism - 6/25/2007 12:44:20 AM

trixxitrash

Posts: 26
Joined: 6/20/2007
Status: offline

Damn 'Girl, I feel for you, I really do. I notice this attitude in lots of cops, and then they wonder why everyone is so anti-cop.

Seroiusly, it's sad to see someone so young with such a cynical view of the world.

I know you say you love your job, but don't you think some time away from it to give yourself a chance to look at the world from a different perspective might do you some good?

BTW, I'm not much of a law-abider myself (if it's a victimless offense, let's do it, lol), but I do admire you for having convictions and sticking to them. If all cops obeyed the law themselves, instead of acting like they are above it, people would respect them more.

_____________________________

Proudly representing the NYC radical cheerleaders!
nycradicalcheerleaders.org

(in reply to GeekyGirl)

Post #: 51

RE: Law Enforcement and Cynicism - 6/25/2007 12:44:50 AM

ericpup

Posts: 72
Joined: 1/2/2004
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MusicMystery, I read your post, and I know that if I were working your neighborhood, and saw a car sitting in a driveway occupied by someone, and no lights on in the house, I would think that the house was being burglarized, and I'd ID the driver too. It's call pro-active police work. And I do approach the cars that I stop. It keeps the bad guys in one place, (in the car) instead of seperated. (cause then I have to divide my attention in two directions. I ain't superman and this ain't an S on my chest.)

Be glad he stopped to check on you and your house.

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 52

RE: Law Enforcement and Cynicism - 6/25/2007 4:02:58 AM

GeekyGirl

Posts: 905
Joined: 8/21/2006
Status: offline

Thank you Eric...Your post is exactly what I was looking for. And yes, I totally agree that only dealing with inmates is definately an issue. I don't get to be "Ms.Nice Police Lady" and help the old lady across the street. I specifically deal with the inmates day and in and day out and that's got to be harder on my mental health in *some* ways. I've heard plenty of patrol cops say they wouldn't work in my county jail for love nor money...it's just too much to deal with.

Overall, I'm doing a hell of alot better than many of my fellow officers. I'm not an alcoholic or having family problems and in our profession, that's saying something. I just read an article yesterday that said that cops and jailers are 3x, yes 3x, as likely to commit suicide as the average citizen. That is scary as hell, IMO.

I wasn't really looking with this thread for "Let's bash cops and say why we don't like them."

I was looking for opinions from other LE. Obviously on this particular issue, I don't place a whole lot of value on the opinions of non-le people because they couldn't possibly understand, IMO.

Trixx, time away might do anybody good...LE, military, any stressful job. But we've got retirement to look at (yes, I am boring enough at age 24 to stress over my retirement fund...right now I can retire at 47 which isn't that old..and if we pass our "20 and out", I'll be retired at 40!!!!! C'mon, that rocks!

< Message edited by GeekyGirl -- 6/25/2007 4:09:30 AM >

_____________________________

"It's nothing that I understand, but when in your arms you have complete power over me. So be gentle if you please, 'cause your hands are in my hair, but my heart is in your teeth and it makes me want to make you near me always."

(in reply to ericpup)

Post #: 53

RE: Law Enforcement and Cynicism - 6/25/2007 4:08:23 AM

GeekyGirl

Posts: 905
Joined: 8/21/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

quote:

ORIGINAL: GeekyGirl

Hmm...I'm usually a pretty honest person. I will admit to being a little crazy by most people's standards though.

I don't think anybody is 100% honest, but I was raised to believe that dishonesty was a cardinal sin and even when I do something "wrong", I don't lie about it.

I was the kid who would come to my mom and confess about things she didn't even know I had done...I just have that inner drive to be honest, and on the rare occasions that I lie, I feel horrible about it.

And I never,ever lie at my job. I sometimes violate policy and procedure but I am ALWAYS honest about it. One thing I've learned is that my department will fire you in a heart beat for lying...most anything else, they'll just give you some time off without pay.

One thing that that I find really shocking (and I'm just now discovering this) is that people seem to actively dislike and distrust L.E. I honest-to-gods never know that the average civilian had a such a low opinion of L.E. (but then again, I wasn't raised around average civilians.)

Funny how people bitch about the cops..but when their daughter gets raped or their car gets stolen, guess who they expect to help out? My opinion is that people who bitch about the cops shouldn't have any rights to utilize their services.

The problem with honesty is that most people that profess it aren't being honest but political. We are political creatures and being honest is a political act and we are not being fundementally honest at all. I question the whole concept of fundemental honesty.

.

You know, for the most part, I agree with you. MOST honest people are political, especially in LE. Being honest in LE is a smart move politically, for sure.

However, I'm way too blunt, tactless, and rude in my honesty to ever be called political.

I'm not honest due to the implications or consequences of being dishonest. I'm honest for the most part because I'm sort of an anti-social bitch and just honestly don't give a fuck if people like what I have to say or agree with it or not...

Mine is just plain ole boorish honesty, partially because I'm far too uncreative to lie and far too apathetic to bother with caring about what other people think. Really...lying takes effort. Who has the time or energy ?

_____________________________

"It's nothing that I understand, but when in your arms you have complete power over me. So be gentle if you please, 'cause your hands are in my hair, but my heart is in your teeth and it makes me want to make you near me always."

(in reply to meatcleaver)

Post #: 54

RE: Law Enforcement and Cynicism - 6/25/2007 8:38:55 AM

CuriousLord

Posts: 3911
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: GeekyGirl

Funny how people bitch about the cops..but when their daughter gets raped or their car gets stolen, guess who they expect to help out? My opinion is that people who bitch about the cops shouldn't have any rights to utilize their services.

As long as the cops don't get the tax dollars from the people who bitch them out, either. I wonder if water pistols and cup-to-cup walkie talkies are in this season?

Seriously though. Look back and consider it. You've taken the position of a necessary evil. People aren't too fond of the IRS, or, hell, President Bush. You're probably going to end up making life unnecessarily hard for someone. If you ever act as police offer, you'd likely make some arrests that, in truth, should never have been made, despite what the law says. You'd likely make a lot of peoples' days worse, if you're on traffic duty. People will hate you. The ones that are all smiles are probably hoping they look innocent enough that you don't think into them.

I feel that, the sooner you accept people have a valid reason to dislike "law enforcement" personal, the sooner you'll be able to get over your cyncism. Or it's all angst and support groups with other "LE" who can't understand why merely mentioning their job can put them under fire.

Still, do a good job, don't step on too many toes, have a heart, don't get caught up in the letter of the law, and people just might accept you, even if some still grumble behind your back.

Edit: PS- The war in Iraq is a great example of a necessary evil. A rather extreme one. So much so that most people are too emotional about it to even realize it's necessary, just joining in the bliss ignorance of denouncing figureheads. People who pig-headed argue of civil rights will be the first to critize necessary evils. Their motto is "do no evil" over the more pragmatic "do the most net good". A good cop's a pragmatist. A "do no evil" cop is ineffective. Never forget, when balancing the equations, the values of both ideals and to consider the magnitude of effects over the magnitude of acts.

< Message edited by CuriousLord -- 6/25/2007 8:47:38 AM >

(in reply to GeekyGirl)

Post #: 55

RE: Law Enforcement and Cynicism - 6/25/2007 4:40:03 PM

GeekyGirl

Posts: 905
Joined: 8/21/2006
Status: offline

Great post CuriousLord :)

Lots of good points in there...

I guess I understand why other people dislike LE. I just didn't realize how common it was. I tend to look at things from my own viewpoint, and even the couple of times when I've had the police pull me over for something, I never felt angry or resentful...just, "Hey, he's doing his job...just wants to make 8 and go home like everybody else."

But then again, I never got a ticket either, so maybe that's why I have a high opinion of them :)

_____________________________

"It's nothing that I understand, but when in your arms you have complete power over me. So be gentle if you please, 'cause your hands are in my hair, but my heart is in your teeth and it makes me want to make you near me always."

(in reply to CuriousLord)

Post #: 56

RE: Law Enforcement and Cynicism - 6/26/2007 1:09:39 PM

Real0ne

Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: GeekyGirl

Great post CuriousLord :)

Lots of good points in there...

I guess I understand why other people dislike LE. I just didn't realize how common it was. I tend to look at things from my own viewpoint, and even the couple of times when I've had the police pull me over for something, I never felt angry or resentful...just, "Hey, he's doing his job...just wants to make 8 and go home like everybody else."

But then again, I never got a ticket either, so maybe that's why I have a high opinion of them :)

how cant imagine how you could be happy with that post but oke doke...

i had to pay a ticket when there was no posted speed limit clocked 75feet where they thought the sign was supposed to be. By the time i got back the next day with the camera a sign was put up. Of course the judge beoliieved me.

i felt so warm and cozy toward LE.

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to GeekyGirl)

Post #: 57

RE: Law Enforcement and Cynicism - 6/26/2007 2:20:20 PM

GeekyGirl

Posts: 905
Joined: 8/21/2006
Status: offline

I don't know...I guess I just try to be law abiding and if I get caught NOT being law abiding, I figure it's my fault for screwing up.

I know that if I didn't know what the speed limit was, I would use my common sense..if it was an urban area, I'd go 35 and if it was a rural area, I'd go 55...since that is the normal low end speeds for those areas.

But once again, you can't judge the entire LE community by the actions of traffic cops. They make up a pretty small percentage of the force.

_____________________________

"It's nothing that I understand, but when in your arms you have complete power over me. So be gentle if you please, 'cause your hands are in my hair, but my heart is in your teeth and it makes me want to make you near me always."

(in reply to Real0ne)

Post #: 58

RE: Law Enforcement and Cynicism - 6/26/2007 4:10:20 PM

domiguy

Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline

I have been pulled over twice for DWW...On the South Side of Chicago....Wasn't doing anything wrong....The cops just couldn't imagine what a white dude could possibly be doing in a "black area" other than buying drugs.

A friend of mine just recently joined the force....They were performing a road block where they stop every five cars (How in the fuck is this legal?) They also stop anyone who they feel might be doing or involved in something illegal...At random...No five cars....just stop whomever they feel like.

Unlike in the forums.....when it comes to dealing with cops I am pretty much a "No sir".."Yes sir" kind of guy. There can never be any benefit from giving them lip or shit.

In almost every run in I have had, no matter how benign, they have been total A-holes...

It is a tough job....Day in and day out you deal with the lowest rung of humanity....Still I am of the belief that anyone who applies for a position to serve the public (cops, politicians ...etc) when they have been found to have broken the law should face a much stiffer penalty because they have taken an oath and have pledged to serve and protect.

_____________________________

(in reply to GeekyGirl)

Post #: 59

RE: Law Enforcement and Cynicism - 6/26/2007 4:19:02 PM

Alumbrado

Posts: 5560
Status: offline

quote:

They were performing a road block where they stop every five cars (How in the fuck is this legal?) They also stop anyone who they feel might be doing or involved in something illegal...At random...No five cars....just stop whomever they feel like.

It is perfectly legal because the USSC has ruled that randomly selected vehicle searches fall within their interpretation of the 'reasonable' search requirement of the 4th Amendment...and what you call 'might be doing or involved in something illegal', is more commonly called 'probable cause'... also held to fall within the scope of that same reasonableness standard

And as mentioned in other threads, when it comes to what is or isn't legal or reasonable, we can all have opinions, but only a handful of judges have any enforceable say-so in the matter..

< Message edited by Alumbrado -- 6/26/2007 4:21:23 PM >

(in reply to domiguy)

Post #: 60

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