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RE: Why do you do it? - 6/26/2007 10:24:48 AM

MasterNangel

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Joined: 4/7/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: slavegirljoy

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterNangel
Real life is different than fantasy, but it can still be wonderful and fulfilling. It's just both people caring about the other and putting the effort forth.

Angel

For me, Real Life has always been so much better than any fantasy, because it is REAL and because it lasts a lot longer.

i agree that people caring about each other and putting forth the effort is very important, or even critically important, in order to have a satisfying and healthy long term M/s or D/s relationship.
____________

I agree with you on that. I know that before I was in real time, I had some wonderful fantasies, but they don't compare to being with Master in our life together. It's knowing that, that person knows you inside and out, they are there for you in every way, and the life you have together is lasting and very real.

I think that the fantasy part can sometimes get in the way of recognizing when something is real though. You almost think it has to be the way it is in your head, or it isn't an M/s relationship. I know that I had to adjust my play life, to my real life. In the end, it is much better, but it is different than what I had built up in my head. It was the same when I used to compare our relationship to other M/s ones. I had to realize that although this isn't their reality, it is ours and it works just fine for us. I hope that no one ever misses out on a really great one, just because they are waiting for the one in their head to show up.

_____________________________

"At my feet, that is where you will find my loving, sweet whore." ~Master

"You have my heart Master, with that my body, and my adoration." ~angel

(in reply to slavegirljoy)

Post #: 41

RE: Why do you do it? - 6/26/2007 10:53:24 AM

slavegirljoy

Posts: 1207
Joined: 11/6/2006
From: North Carolina, USA
Status: offline

There will always be cynics........But, the truth is that what lies within another person's heart and motivates that person to do what they do can never really be known or judged by someone else. We each have our own individual motivation and, even though it might not be true for some, for others that motivation is not based on selfishishness.
____________
slave joy
Owned property of Master David

"..and those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music."

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

So why are you submitting, if you don't wish to submit? To cause the dominant (in your case your daddy) to be happy? Because it just 'is' what you are? Even when you are pleasing someone else, the selfishness is there... even when it's just being yourself. Every single response here, shows a selfish act, including yours.

But then I am of the mind that there is no such thing as a selfless act.

Peace
the.dark.

(in reply to RCdc)

Post #: 42

RE: Why do you do it? - 6/26/2007 11:23:54 AM

spankmepink11

Posts: 1310
Joined: 9/28/2005
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So many great answers , i can relate and agree with several, especially in regards to just being oneself. Of course i also agree that there are no such things as selfless acts. No matter what it is we (individually) do, whether it be in day to day interactions with people, or in our relationship dynamics there is cause and affect. This has nothing to do with expectations for a "return" on our actions. It's the absolute feeling of rightness, happiness, insert your own specific adjective, type "affect" from doing what you do.

I guess there might be people out there who don't care whether or not a specific act fulfills the person performing the act or not. As an employer i most appreciate an employee who takes some joy in their performance over someone who did it begrudgingly or spitefully, the same goes with friendships and significant other relationships.
Joy and fulfillment generally feed and produce more of the same. Isn't that why anyone seeks to do any of the things they do?

(in reply to slavegirljoy)

Post #: 43

RE: Why do you do it? - 6/26/2007 11:44:15 AM

spankmepink11

Posts: 1310
Joined: 9/28/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL:
There will always be cynics........But, the truth is that what lies within another person's heart and motivates that person to do what they do can never really be known or judged by someone else. We each have our own individual motivation and, even though it might not be true for some, for others that motivation is not based on selfishishness.
____________
slave joy
Owned property of Master David

Very well said joy, i think you're right that the motivations of our hearts cannot truly be gaged by others.
However, I think people too often assume that a statement such as "there are no such things as selfless acts" automatically implies selfishness, and thats just not the case. Selfless acts can be self fulfilling....wanting to be fulfilled is not selfish, it's instinct, just one of the many ways people can "get theirs"

< Message edited by spankmepink11 -- 6/26/2007 11:48:47 AM >

(in reply to slavegirljoy)

Post #: 44

RE: Why do you do it? - 6/26/2007 11:56:08 AM

daddysprop247

Posts: 1712
Joined: 6/24/2005
From: DC Metro area
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

So why are you submitting, if you don't wish to submit? To cause the dominant (in your case your daddy) to be happy? Because it just 'is' what you are? Even when you are pleasing someone else, the selfishness is there... even when it's just being yourself. Every single response here, shows a selfish act, including yours.

But then I am of the mind that there is no such thing as a selfless act.

Peace
the.dark.

why do your eyes water when you stub your toe against a piece of furniture? why does your leg jerk when the doc strikes your knee with that little hammer? these are the same reasons why i submit. it's reflexive and instinctive, and needs no motivations or returns. it just is.

yes sometimes i have that selfish pleasure which comes from pleasing others, however there are plenty of times i have no such pleasure because i never wished to submit in the first place. yes i live to serve and please my Master, because he is the one who owns me and that is my purpose in life. but i do not submit to him for any reason other than the fact that it is natural for me to submit, whether i like it or not.

(in reply to RCdc)

Post #: 45

RE: Why do you do it? - 6/26/2007 12:13:40 PM

RCdc

Posts: 8674
Status: offline

Then name me one motivation that is not selfish?
Even death is a form of selfishness.

Peace
the.dark.

_____________________________

RC&dc

love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to slavegirljoy)

Post #: 46

RE: Why do you do it? - 6/26/2007 12:16:22 PM

RCdc

Posts: 8674
Status: offline

But being what you are instinctively, is being selfish. Being true to yourself is a selfish act. If you believe that your submission is what you are, then the unselfish thing to do is to refuse to be a submissive if it benefited another.
But when you are 'a submissive' then being one and acting upon it is a selfish act. Selfishness is not a negative verb, but an act of self awareness.

Peace
the.dark.

< Message edited by Darcyandthedark -- 6/26/2007 12:17:25 PM >

_____________________________

RC&dc

love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to daddysprop247)

Post #: 47

RE: Why do you do it? - 6/26/2007 12:18:39 PM

LuckyAlbatross

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Joined: 10/25/2005
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Agreed. I would not want someone who did not put themselves first and allowed themselves to settle for less than what they found fulfilling.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to RCdc)

Post #: 48

RE: Why do you do it? - 6/26/2007 12:19:38 PM

RCdc

Posts: 8674
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: spankmepink11
However, I think people too often assume that a statement such as "there are no such things as selfless acts" automatically implies selfishness, and thats just not the case. Selfless acts can be self fulfilling....wanting to be fulfilled is not selfish, it's instinct, just one of the many ways people can "get theirs"

Exactly.

Peace
the.dark.

_____________________________

RC&dc

love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to spankmepink11)

Post #: 49

RE: Why do you do it? - 6/26/2007 12:37:19 PM

mistoferin

Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline

dark, the clarity with which you see things at times is really refreshing. Thank you. I agree with you. If submission/slavery was not fulfilling on some level we would not be doing it. Even if it is doing just what feels natural or is what feels like the right path...even if it is the feeling we get from pleasing another...it is indeed a selfish act. I think that many can only see the negative in the term "selfish" and that is where the confusion lies. There are also some who must associate a sense of martyrdom with their submission. Regardless, the bottom line is that our motivations are indeed selfish at the most basic levels.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to RCdc)

Post #: 50

RE: Why do you do it? - 6/26/2007 1:16:16 PM

slavegirljoy

Posts: 1207
Joined: 11/6/2006
From: North Carolina, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: spankmepink11

quote:

ORIGINAL:
There will always be cynics........But, the truth is that what lies within another person's heart and motivates that person to do what they do can never really be known or judged by someone else. We each have our own individual motivation and, even though it might not be true for some, for others that motivation is not based on selfishishness.
____________
slave joy
Owned property of Master David

Very well said joy, i think you're right that the motivations of our hearts cannot truly be gaged by others.
However, I think people too often assume that a statement such as "there are no such things as selfless acts" automatically implies selfishness, and thats just not the case. Selfless acts can be self fulfilling....wanting to be fulfilled is not selfish, it's instinct, just one of the many ways people can "get theirs"

i said what i said because in my Webster's New Dictionary:

Selfish is defined as being concerned chiefly or only with oneself and being devoted to or caring only for oneself; concerned primarily with one's own interests, benefits, welfare, etc., regardless of others.

Selfishness is defined as being self-interested, self-seeking, egoistic, stingy.

Selfless is defined as having little or no concern for oneself, especially with regard to fame, position, money, etc., showing concern for the welfare of others, being unselfish.

i stand by my statement that for some, not all, their motivation to serve is not based on selfishness. i didn't say that they don't get any fulfillment or satisfaction from serving, just that their source of motivation for serving is not based on selfishness. This is just another one of those things where people have different perspectives and i didn't say that it's a negative thing to be motivated by selfishness. i just said that it's not really possible for someone to say to another that their motivations for serving are selfish, when they have no way of knowing what motivates another.____________
slave joy
Owned property of Master David

"..and those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music." -- F. Nietzsche

(in reply to spankmepink11)

Post #: 51

RE: Why do you do it? - 6/26/2007 1:24:43 PM

daddysprop247

Posts: 1712
Joined: 6/24/2005
From: DC Metro area
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

But being what you are instinctively, is being selfish. Being true to yourself is a selfish act. If you believe that your submission is what you are, then the unselfish thing to do is to refuse to be a submissive if it benefited another.
But when you are 'a submissive' then being one and acting upon it is a selfish act. Selfishness is not a negative verb, but an act of self awareness.

Peace
the.dark.

darcy, i don't think you understand where i'm coming from with this at all. i am not submissive to be "true" to myself, anymore than you are being true to yourself when you flinch and say "ouch!" when splashed with a few drops of hot cooking oil. for some of us it really is that basic, an instinct, a reflex, nothing any more complex than that.

and please see the definitions kindly posted by slavejoy...selfishness is indeed a negative quality, at least for one who is a submissive and should in theory be primarily concerned with pleasing others.

(in reply to RCdc)

Post #: 52

RE: Why do you do it? - 6/26/2007 1:46:37 PM

RCdc

Posts: 8674
Status: offline

Hello Prop

Firstly - this is dark speaking, not Darcy - (see sig).

Fullfilment = self - no more no less. Motivation = Selfishness.
Living on ones instinct is selfishness. If it wasn't, one would be dead.
If I say 'ouch' because fat splashes me, it's selfish. Because one is thinking of themself. Auto reaction = selfish.

Selfishness is not negative. Selfishness means you are aware of what you need. And I am submissive who is indeed concerned in pleasing - not others - but Darcy - and your theory is all subjective.

Your post indicated selfishness... joys post indicates selfishness. And really - joy is the one person here who should understand totally that there is no such thing as a selfless act - because the only selfless person she should know and be aware of (as a christian as to which she has indicated herself to be) is Jesus (unless I have completely misunderstood her postings).

No dominant or submissive is a martyr - even a 'natural' one. And I am still waiting someone to show me a selfless act of anything.

Peace
the.dark.
(highlighted and underlined to indicate who is posting!)

_____________________________

RC&dc

love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to daddysprop247)

Post #: 53

RE: Why do you do it? - 6/26/2007 1:53:02 PM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

Well I'm not quite as hardcore as Dark here :) I think altruistic acts DO exist and occur. I just happen to think they are very rare.

I also think that choosing to be in a relationship with someone and continuing to be in that relationship with them because it fits who you are is a selfish act. And a good one.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to RCdc)

Post #: 54

RE: Why do you do it? - 6/26/2007 2:12:00 PM

slavegirljoy

Posts: 1207
Joined: 11/6/2006
From: North Carolina, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

Then name me one motivation that is not selfish?

Here are three examples that i know of: 1) Firemen rushing into a burning building to rescue others. 2) A man jumping into the NYC subway to rescue a stranger, who fell in. 3) A single mom, alone in her car, on a rainy Friday night, with her infant daughter in her car seat in the backseat, pulls her car over on the side of the dark road to help a large black man, pushing his car up the hill, as many other cars drove by, gets out of her car, helps him push his car to the top of the hill and over to the side of the road, lets him get into her car and drives him to the gas station and never gets anything out of this, other than his sincere thanks. Of course, it wasn't the smartest thing for me to do. But, i didn't think about it, i just saw someone who was in a bad situation and needed some help and i just acted, intuitively out of my concern for others (no, i'm no angel, although, maybe to this man, i might have been an angel that night.) i'm sure that if i had thought about it and the potential risk i was taking, i would have drove on passed him, like all the other drivers were doing.

quote:

Even death is a form of selfishness.Peace
the.dark.

How is death selfish, unless you are referring to suicide? How was it selfish that my 69 year-old mom was attacked and choked to death, after being raped and strangled, as she took a morning walk along a quiet road, while she was enjoying her retirement in Trinidad, and then left, half-naked, in a ditch on the side of the road, where she lay for 3 days & 3 nights, until a passerby found her there? In what way is her death a form of selfishness, other than the selfishness of her killer, that is?
____________
slave joy
Owned property of Master David

Edited to add: BTW, the 24 year-old Trinidadan man, who was put on trial for my mom's murder, walked free because the judge ruled the prosecution didn't make its case. But, on April 14, 2005, it was reported that he had been gunned down on his way home and was found lying in a pool of blood, a few meters from his home. Still don't know if he was my mom's actual murderer, since there was no definitive judgement on that at his trial.

"..and those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music."
-- F. Nietzsche

< Message edited by slavegirljoy -- 6/26/2007 2:48:15 PM >

(in reply to RCdc)

Post #: 55

RE: Why do you do it? - 6/26/2007 2:39:20 PM

daddysprop247

Posts: 1712
Joined: 6/24/2005
From: DC Metro area
Status: offline

thedark,

my apologies for addressing myself to the wrong person. it's clear that we will just have to agree to disagree on this issue, as no matter how i try to wrap my brain around it, i cannot fathom the idea that there is no such thing as a selfless act, that all actions are selfish. to me that is a very narrow, negative and jaded view of the world, although i realize that to you selfishness is not necessarily negative. i fail to see how an instinctive response is selfish, tho perhaps our differences of opinion here may lie in semantics, like so many discussions on collarme. the definitions slavegirl joy provided of selfish and selfless are what i mean when i use the two terms. self-awareness does not fit my idea of selfishness, although even playing along and going with that idea of the word, i can think of many responses and actions which are completely without self-awareness. i was not aware that i was a submissive or that i needed to be in a M/s relationship until i was 18 years old. yet i have been a submissive since birth, again not because it necessarily pleased me to do so or because i wished to do so, but simply because it was my natural response to do so.
what i will say was selfish was my agreeing to become my Master's property, because i knew it was a way of life which would fulfill me, and he was someone who touched something deep within me. at that moment, when i said "yes," i was thinking of my own fulfillment as much as i was thinking about his pleasure.

(in reply to slavegirljoy)

Post #: 56

RE: Why do you do it? - 6/26/2007 3:28:14 PM

slavegirljoy

Posts: 1207
Joined: 11/6/2006
From: North Carolina, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: daddysprop247
what i will say was selfish was my agreeing to become my Master's property, because i knew it was a way of life which would fulfill me, and he was someone who touched something deep within me. at that moment, when i said "yes," i was thinking of my own fulfillment as much as i was thinking about his pleasure.

It might feel like its being selfish to enjoy being owned by a wonderful Master because you achieve fulfillment in that. But, to me, it is not a selfish act to have fulfillment or even enjoyment and pleasure in what we do. To me, thinking that having fulfillment or pleasure or enjoyment are acts of selfishness is saying that those things aren't deserved and, as far as i'm concerned, they are deserved. They are as deserved and needed as having safe shelter and food and water. Being a slave and feeling a need to serve, that isn't motivated by selfish reasons, doesn't mean that there can't be anything positive about it for the slave. It simply means that those positive feelings are not the basis for the motivation to serve. i don't consider any of the following to be acts of selfishness: Seeking and achieving safety for ourselves and our families; seeking and achieving fulfillment in our lives; seeking and achieving happiness in our lives. If those are considered to be acts of selfishness, then, i agree that most everyone is (and should be) selfish. It just so happens that i don't consider any of those to be acts of selfishness. Seeking and achieving any of those things for yourself, at the expense of someone else's ability and right to have them would be, to me, acts of selfishness. But, like i said before, its a matter of perspective and this just happens to be mine.____________
slave joy
Owned property of Master David "..and those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music."
-- F. Nietzsche

(in reply to daddysprop247)

Post #: 57

RE: Why do you do it? - 6/26/2007 5:03:40 PM

NControlofU

Posts: 204
Joined: 11/14/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

And really - joy is the one person here who should understand totally that there is no such thing as a selfless act - because the only selfless person she should know and be aware of (as a christian as to which she has indicated herself to be) is Jesus (unless I have completely misunderstood her postings).

No dominant or submissive is a martyr - even a 'natural' one. And I am still waiting someone to show me a selfless act of anything.

Peace
the.dark.
(highlighted and underlined to indicate who is posting!)

Jesus was selfless, thats true. But, there were others in the Bible who were selfless too, Moses, Abraham, Ruth, David, Barnabas, and many more.

Lets not forget the Good Samaritan (Luke 10), who took the time to help a person in need using his own resources and time to gain no advantage for self but only to help a person who needed help.

Jesus was not the only selfless person.

You don't need to be a martyr to be selfless.

Selflessness does not mean that we will never obtain the things we want or need, rather it is trusting that we will receive what we want and need instead of trying to take them.

In Galatians 2:20 the apostle Paul said he was no longer living, but that Christ was living in him. What this means is that he had selflessly given control of his life over to Christ and became obedient to Jesus in all things.

(in reply to RCdc)

Post #: 58

RE: Why do you do it? - 6/26/2007 7:22:19 PM

sambamanslilgirl

Posts: 10926
Joined: 2/5/2007
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline

i apologize for not reading all the replies however your query poses a presumption that submissiveness is liken to a full-time career such as being aradio personality/concert reviewer. however being a submissive isn't my whole life or career choice. it's part of who i am.

_____________________________

...2011 - year of the fabulous rock star life ...and i do it so well...

...announcing Mr. & Mrs. British Petrol ...yeah, marrying into oil is slick business...

(in reply to sweetnurseBBW)

Post #: 59

RE: Why do you do it? - 6/26/2007 7:25:43 PM

sweetnurseBBW

Posts: 2464
Joined: 1/26/2006
From: North Carolina
Status: offline

Nope that is not what I said. I want to know your motivations is it a need to fulfill just you or others? Most said both.

_____________________________

Sir Pain's pain slut

(in reply to sambamanslilgirl)

Post #: 60

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