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RE: Why do you do it? - 6/29/2007 6:32:04 AM   
mistoferin


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Joined: 10/27/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: slavegirljoy
i have no idea why you would think that anyone is considering you or anyone else to be insane, just because we have different uses for the word "selfish". 


Well I didn't think that anyone said any such thing. You took my words quite literally and I meant for you to view them in the abstract....which is also how you have been viewing the word "selfish"....literally. I fully comprehend your definition of the word, but I choose to also see it with a broader lens. It would appear though that you have no desire to attempt to view it from a broader perspective than the rigid one you have commonly known and are comfortable with, which is quite fine. I don't believe that your definition is wrong, I just feel it's limited. I was not attempting to convey that I felt that I (or anyone else) had been labelled "insane". I was trying to convey that your quote was quite apt for the situation as in it there are two groups....one group who can hear the music...one group who can not, which is basically the same as what has occurred here...one group who can view and understand the word from the extreme perspectives of the spectrum(they can hear the music)....and one group who can not(they do not hear the music).

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to slavegirljoy)
Profile   Post #: 101
RE: Why do you do it? - 6/29/2007 7:36:41 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
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haha - touche...
I meant that in life theres no perfection - in death - there can be  depending on ones spiritual path hey.
A contradiction.  But then, spirituality is full of contradictions...
 
Peace
the.dark.

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RC&dc


love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to Evanesce)
Profile   Post #: 102
RE: Why do you do it? - 6/29/2007 7:45:23 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline
Joy,
 
No one said that the definition of the word 'selfish' is wrong or different from what you gave.  Some people just do not see that as a negative definition - that is all - and that is what some people do not seem to understand. The definition of selfishness is the same so there isn't a need to promote the definition, the difference is - one section sees this as negative and one sees it as positive - and that is a purely subjective view.
 
Peace
the.dark.

_____________________________


RC&dc


love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to slavegirljoy)
Profile   Post #: 103
RE: Why do you do it? - 6/29/2007 10:05:25 AM   
behindmirrors


Posts: 340
Joined: 8/5/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkDreams123

 
I make the choice for what I give and what I keep: how much I spend on a new car and how much I don't spend. If someone calls me selfish for buying a new car when there are people starving in the world, I can agree with them with a clear conscience because I don't think that selfishness is wrong.
 
This belief of mine is influenced by Ayn Rand. However, I do not subscribe to an unaltered form of her philosophy because she believed that charity was wrong. I not only believe that charity is right, I support several. But the issue is that I have the right to choose what to do with my resources without having to feel guilty for what I choose to spend on myself or my family.
 
Does this make sense to anyone else?
 
-DarkDreams

(Note: bolding added, as this is a great point, and I agree fully.)

It makes perfect sense to me- but I'm an Objectivist. *smiles* And I also don't feel that supporting a charity or cause is wrong, nor did Rand herself- it's the motivation for doing so that determines if it is an act that is moral for an Objectivist or not- for example, if it is something you are doing because it satisfies you, and/or is a cause you are personally invested in supporting (I support MS research, for example, because several people I am close to have been or are afflicted, and it is of importance to me to see progress toward their condition), then it is morally sanctioned for you to do so, provided that you are not doing so to your own detriment (i.e. you desperately need the money you are giving to the cause). However, the same action, when done through guilt, or because you feel you "should" because that's what you are told is "right to do", have been pressured into it, or because it is an act of self-sacrifice for you to do so (see my financial comment above for example), is not morally sanctioned in Objectivism. Selfishness applies to these acts as well- it was altruism that Rand was against (as it is an inherently self-sacrificing ideal), not giving to charity because it is important to you to do so.

Rand said herself that her philosophy was in no way complete, by the way- which is why it continues to grow and change, though the basic principles stay the same. So, ascribing to Rand's philosophy, as it is an individualistic one, also implies that you complete it as needed for you- as long as the basics are stuck to- at least as I have interpreted it.

I am also a selfish individual, and I define selfishness as acting in my own rational self-interest at all times. Were I to not act/think this way, it would cause me harm- which is why I consider being selfish the only logical way to live- at least if one's own life is their standard of value against which they weigh what is right to do. My life is my highest value, and I seek to enrich that value and support it through my thoughts and actions- which is selfish. My life means more to me than it means to anyone else, and it means more to me than the life of any other. That is selfish. It is because I care for my self, and my life, that I act in the way that I do. I love my Master very much, but I will not live only for him, as I have my own life to live for, and he, his- and I would not expect him to live for me. We are both in agreement in this, which is good.

So, returning to the point of the OP:
Why do I do it? Simply because it satisfies me to do so. I came to this in my own free will, as did my Master. We chose each other because we reflect the highest values that we each have. I am not here because I feel a need to punish myself, or because it is self-destructive- I chose to be here because it enriches me, it pleases me, and because my pleasure (and sexual pleasure) is important to my well-being- and thus, important to my standard of value, which is my life.

I don't really worry about who recieves what first. I enjoy doing things for my Master because I derive a sense of happiness from his pleasure (which enriches me as well as him- so it is of value to both of us), and he does the same for me. There are many types of enrichment and happiness or pleasure which one can recieve from an interaction with another- and although it may not always be sexual, it is still gratifying. I enjoy having my needs met- and I ensure that they are- but there are many types of needs, and sometimes I want to just feel as though I have served him well, while at others I want sexual release. Either one carries a sense of satisfaction for me in the end- which is exactly why I do what I am doing.

In short, all my motivations are selfish ones- and for me, that is the best possible way to live.

behindmirrors.

(in reply to DarkDreams123)
Profile   Post #: 104
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