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RE: Why do you do it? - 6/26/2007 7:35:06 PM

sambamanslilgirl

Posts: 10926
Joined: 2/5/2007
From: Chicago, IL
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then i must be the oddball because i don't see my submissiveness fulfilling any part of my life ...nor do i see it fulfilling Daddy's needs even though our needs are being met. we don't live the lifestyle 24/7 because our interests and activities take precedent before becoming the roles (not roleplaying -there's a difference, people) our titles dictate to enhance our lives. so you can say there's a mutual gratification from the both of us yet saying i do it to fulfill His and my life - way out of the question.

< Message edited by sambamanslilgirl -- 6/26/2007 7:39:06 PM >

_____________________________

...2011 - year of the fabulous rock star life ...and i do it so well...

...announcing Mr. & Mrs. British Petrol ...yeah, marrying into oil is slick business...

(in reply to sweetnurseBBW)

Post #: 61

RE: Why do you do it? - 6/27/2007 1:32:29 AM

DarkDreams123

Posts: 74
Joined: 1/25/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: slavegirljoy
Here are three examples that i know of:

1) Firemen rushing into a burning building to rescue others.
2) A man jumping into the NYC subway to rescue a stranger, who fell in.
3) A single mom, alone in her car, on a rainy Friday night, with her infant daughter in her car seat in the backseat, pulls her car over on the side of the dark road to help a large black man, pushing his car up the hill, as many other cars drove by, gets out of her car, helps him push his car to the top of the hill and over to the side of the road, lets him get into her car and drives him to the gas station and never gets anything out of this, other than his sincere thanks. Of course, it wasn't the smartest thing for me to do. But, i didn't think about it, i just saw someone who was in a bad situation and needed some help and i just acted, intuitively out of my concern for others (no, i'm no angel, although, maybe to this man, i might have been an angel that night.) i'm sure that if i had thought about it and the potential risk i was taking, i would have drove on passed him, like all the other drivers were doing.

quote:

ORIGINAL: daddysprop247
...
i fail to see how an instinctive response is selfish, tho perhaps our differences of opinion here may lie in semantics, like so many discussions on collarme. the definitions slavegirl joy provided of selfish and selfless are what i mean when i use the two terms. self-awareness does not fit my idea of selfishness, although even playing along and going with that idea of the word, i can think of many responses and actions which are completely without self-awareness. i was not aware that i was a submissive or that i needed to be in a M/s relationship until i was 18 years old. yet i have been a submissive since birth, again not because it necessarily pleased me to do so or because i wished to do so, but simply because it was my natural response to do so.
what i will say was selfish was my agreeing to become my Master's property, because i knew it was a way of life which would fulfill me, and he was someone who touched something deep within me. at that moment, when i said "yes," i was thinking of my own fulfillment as much as i was thinking about his pleasure.

(emphasis mine)

I think I understand what the dark is saying when she says that she does not believe there is such a thing as a completely selfless act (or at least that such things are very rare).

Joy, in your three examples above: a fireman is drawn to that particular job because there is something fulfilling in it. He is drawn to "being the hero" and risking his life and well-being for others. I am not "knocking" this, but there is an element of selfishness. If this job was not appealing to him, why would he do it?

I think your second example is more apropos. I can't argue with it.

In your third example: This is a good example of something that is mostly selfless. But you do "betray" some possible motivations that benefit you: his sincere thanks. You also mention about all of the other cars driving by. Do you think that maybe you stopped to help in some measure just because no one else appeared willing to do so? Please understand that I am not criticizing you for what you did (would that more of us were like this). I am just addressing the question of selfish vs selfless motivation.

daddysprop247: In my opinion, reflexive or instinctive actions are very basic ones, such as the "fight or flight" response, pulling your hand away from a hot stove, etc. Submission is a far more complex action than these. Submission may be a natural action for you, but I cannot regard it in the same class as an instinctive or reflexive response.

Because submission is natural for you is an indication of a degree of selfishness. Can you think of any situations where submission would not be the best response?

What if you had a brother who was a drug addict? If he asked you for money, or to allow him to live with you, the "submissive" response might be to give him what he wanted. However, this response might not be in his best interests. Giving him what he wanted, pleasing him, might be the most natural response for you, but this would also be assisting him in his addiction. You would in effect be an enabler.

It would be much harder and less natural for you to respond with "tough love": resisting the urge to please him and instead confronting him and trying to get him some help.

The point I am trying to make here is that what is easiest and most natural for me, due to my personality type, may not always be the best response in a given situation. If I just stick with what is most comfortable for me, I am indeed being selfish.

Thanks sweetnurseBBW for a very interesting question. Thanks to everyone else for a very interesting and stimulating discussion.

-DarkDreams

(in reply to daddysprop247)

Post #: 62

RE: Why do you do it? - 6/27/2007 3:50:48 AM

RCdc

Posts: 8674
Status: offline

Hello Joy
All the examples you gave are all selfish acts because each person gains a return.
Even the whole flight or fight thing is a human reaction that is based on being instinctively selfish. To be human, one must be selfish - selfishness is an integral part of being sentient.

To be selfless is an act purely refined for the very.very holy and spiritual. And even then, as a wise man stated, 'to find ones way to enlightenment, one must first be selfish.'

As for death being a selfish act, that was meant as giving ones own life - not death as the complete end and had nothing to do with your mothers untimely and distressing death. I should have been clearer. My reasoning is based on death caused by seemingly 'selfless' acts (like the firefighter for example) Risking ones life for another, is still not a selfless act.

Peace
the.dark.

_____________________________

RC&dc

love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to slavegirljoy)

Post #: 63

RE: Why do you do it? - 6/27/2007 4:02:07 AM

RCdc

Posts: 8674
Status: offline

Hello Prop

As I said to Joy, selfishness is a part of being sentient, that's my realisation and I understand that it isn't everyones, but to me it's the truth and I am not meaning to impose it onto others, just explain where I am coming from hey.
Submission or dominance is something that needs a return. You can't dominate without someone accepting it - you can try but unless someone submits, it's an empty act. Submission works the same in reverse. If one is gay, you have to act on it and want to act upon it and at that point, one becomes selfish. Submission is the same. So is the act of being female.

Again, I see selfishness as an act of self awareness and not a negative context - even Jesus knew and understood his selfish, selfless act.

Peace
the.dark.

_____________________________

RC&dc

love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to daddysprop247)

Post #: 64

RE: Why do you do it? - 6/27/2007 7:54:42 AM

slavegirljoy

Posts: 1207
Joined: 11/6/2006
From: North Carolina, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkDreams123
I think I understand what the dark is saying when she says that she does not believe there is such a thing as a completely selfless act (or at least that such things are very rare).

As i said, there will always be cynics. i believe what i believe.

quote:

Joy, in your three examples above: a fireman is drawn to that particular job because there is something fulfilling in it. He is drawn to "being the hero" and risking his life and well-being for others. I am not "knocking" this, but there is an element of selfishness. If this job was not appealing to him, why would he do it?

Again, i say that no one can know what is in another ones heart or what motivates them to do what they do. You want to consider firemen to be motivated by ego, that is up to you. i don't presume to make those judgments about others. i don't believe that, just because a job appeals to someone, even when it's in a helping field, such as fire fighting, law enforcement, nursing, teaching, missionary work, animal welfare, environmental clean-up, etc., that it means the people who chose those jobs are all motivated by selfish reasons. Some, no doubt, are but, not all. And, i believe that not all subs or slaves are motivated by selfish reasons. Some, no doubt, are but, not all.

quote:

I think your second example is more apropos. I can't argue with it.

Hey, 1 out of 3 ain't bad.

quote:

In your third example: This is a good example of something that is mostly selfless. But you do "betray" some possible motivations that benefit you: his sincere thanks.

i didn't "betray" anything in giving my personal example of what i consider to be a selfless act. i simply told what happened. After i had helped him, the man offered "his sincere thanks", that's what happened and that's what i wrote. i acted without asking for or expecting anything from him. i wasn't motivated to stop and help him, in order to receive his "sincere thanks". His "sincere thanks" was offered to me, after the fact. His "sincere thanks" was not a condition of my desire to help. He offered his "sincere thanks" to me, of his own accord, after i had finished helping him, i accepted his thanks and drove away, never knowing his name or anything about him or if he would even think of this lady, who stopped to help him, ever again. It didn't matter to me. It was a non-issue. It wasn't what motivated me to help. i didn't stop to think, before i stopped to help, what was possibly in it for me. i didn't think about what i could get out of it, by helping him. i didn't think about the potential risk i was taking, by stopping for a stranger. i didn't think, at all, i just acted intuitively. i was on my way home with my baby, on a rainy Friday night, after working all day. i was tired and i just wanted to get us home but, i put this stranger's needs ahead of my wants, long enough to see if he needed my help and he did. i didn't stop to think, "What can i get out of this?" and, i didn't make my decision to help him conditional on him giving me anything, not even his thanks. His thanks was just what he felt like offering. So, what makes this a mostly selfless act? If the man had not offered me "his sincere thanks" and just got out and went on his way, would that have made it a selfless act, rather than a mostly selfless act? i had no control over what the man decided to do or say. That was up to him and that had no bearing on what i chose to do. Plenty of strangers have helped me, over the years, sometimes when i had car troubles, sometimes in other ways. To me, that's just part of being a caring person. it's how i was raised. People help each other, when they can, for no other reason than because they are there and they can help someone who needs it. Like i said, i'm no angel, and this is just one example that popped into my head as i was answering the question about giving one case of a selfless act. There is case after case of selfless acts that i see others doing every single day. Most of them are just little things but, they are done selflessly by strangers for strangers. i feel really sorry for the people that don't see it. Maybe they just aren't looking.

quote:

You also mention about all of the other cars driving by. Do you think that maybe you stopped to help in some measure just because no one else appeared willing to do so?

Of course, i stopped because i saw that no one else was. And, that makes what i did selfish? If he had been receiving help from someone else, there wouldn't have been any need for me to stop to help. He was a big man, with a small compact car. He didn't need a lot of help. In fact, he was making progress and i'm sure he could have managed to get the car up the hill on his own, it just was a lot easier and quicker with someone helping.

quote:

Please understand that I am not criticizing you for what you did (would that more of us were like this). I am just addressing the question of selfish vs selfless motivation.-DarkDreams

So, in what way, is helping a stranger, without any expectation or desire to gain anything in return, considered to be based on selfish motivation?____________
slave joy
Owned property of Master David
"..and those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music."
-- F. Nietzsche

(in reply to DarkDreams123)

Post #: 65

RE: Why do you do it? - 6/27/2007 8:07:38 AM

slavegirljoy

Posts: 1207
Joined: 11/6/2006
From: North Carolina, USA
Status: offline

i respect your right to have your views. i just don't agree with them. i have no idea who the "wise man" was who you quoted but, i completely disagree with his statement. And, i disagree with absolutely everything that you have written in this passage. We are on opposite ends of this issue and will undoubtedly remain there and i have no problem with that. Your perspective and your reality and your beliefs and your truth are yours and mine are mine. So, i leave it at that.
____________
slave joy
Owned property of Master David

"..and those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music."
-- F. Nietzsche

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

Hello Joy
All the examples you gave are all selfish acts because each person gains a return.
Even the whole flight or fight thing is a human reaction that is based on being instinctively selfish. To be human, one must be selfish - selfishness is an integral part of being sentient.

To be selfless is an act purely refined for the very.very holy and spiritual. And even then, as a wise man stated, 'to find ones way to enlightenment, one must first be selfish.'

As for death being a selfish act, that was meant as giving ones own life - not death as the complete end and had nothing to do with your mothers untimely and distressing death. I should have been clearer. My reasoning is based on death caused by seemingly 'selfless' acts (like the firefighter for example) Risking ones life for another, is still not a selfless act.

Peace
the.dark.

(in reply to RCdc)

Post #: 66

RE: Why do you do it? - 6/27/2007 8:19:00 AM

justheather

Posts: 1532
Joined: 10/4/2005
Status: offline

quote:

i have no idea who the "wise man" was who you quoted but, i completely disagree with his statement.

Maybe it was Ayn. Or Atlas.
{shrug}

< Message edited by justheather -- 6/27/2007 8:20:07 AM >

_____________________________

I want the scissors to be sharp
And the table perfectly level
When you cut me out of my life
And paste me in that book you always carry.
-Billy Collins

(in reply to slavegirljoy)

Post #: 67

RE: Why do you do it? - 6/27/2007 8:49:11 AM

mistoferin

Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
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I think that some will not be able to get past the negative connotations of the word selfish to see what dark is trying to express. As human beings our bodies require water to survive. It's our most basic need. Yet drinking a glass of water is a selfish act. We certainly wouldn't view drinking water as negative. We would also say that it's an instinctive behavior.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to justheather)

Post #: 68

RE: Why do you do it? - 6/27/2007 9:25:27 AM

slavegirljoy

Posts: 1207
Joined: 11/6/2006
From: North Carolina, USA
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Then, we fundamentally disagree on the meaning of "selfish". From the definition i was taught and read in my dictionary and use, "selfish" does not have anything to do with simply seeking to fulfill a need. Seeking to fulfill a need by denying someone else the opportunity to fulfill their need, is "selfish".

As with your water example, simply getting a drink of water is not, according to my definition, a selfish act but, pushing someone out of the way so that you can get the drink of water before they can or so that they can't get any, is, to me, a selfish act.

You can behave instintively and be selfish. But, simply behaving instinctively doesn't mean that you are necessarily being selfish. As a mom, i instinctively gave my baby nuturing and protection. No one had to teach me or tell me to do it. i just did it because i cared about her and felt responsible for her. Some might say that i did that for selfish reasons and, if that's what some believe, so be it. i know what it is that i feel in my heart for my baby and about being a mom and about being responsible for her care and no one else does or can. Just as i know what it is that i feel in my heart for my Master and about being a slave and about being loyal, devoted, and obedient and no one else does or can.

No one else can tell me what motivates me or that i am motivated by selfishness. They can believe that, if they wish but, it doesn't change what i know to be true. My truth and my reality are mine and, if others choose to not accept this as such, oh well. i live this reality every day of my life and it feels like the truth to me.
____________
slave joy
Owned property of Master David

"..and those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music."
-- F. Nietzsche

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

I think that some will not be able to get past the negative connotations of the word selfish to see what dark is trying to express. As human beings our bodies require water to survive. It's our most basic need. Yet drinking a glass of water is a selfish act. We certainly wouldn't view drinking water as negative. We would also say that it's an instinctive behavior.

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 69

RE: Why do you do it? - 6/27/2007 9:37:15 AM

mistoferin

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Joined: 10/27/2004
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No one is saying that it is not your truth. What I am saying is that if you were to take all of the negativity out of the equation you may be able to see a broader definition of the word. Think of self-ish as anything that has any benefit whatsoever to self and you may understand the meaning from dark's perspective....not that you have to own it for yourself....just to see where she is coming from.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to slavegirljoy)

Post #: 70

RE: Why do you do it? - 6/27/2007 9:43:01 AM

FelinePersuasion

Posts: 4792
Joined: 11/20/2004
Status: offline

Both, but laregly mine. It depends on the situation, I am not the type that gets pleasure from his pleasure only or knowing he's pleased. I damn well better get something out of it other than his liking it. he knows that and is ok with it, so it all works out.

quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetnurseBBW

This question is for anyone but I really want to know why a sub or slave does what they do. Meaning, do you do it for your own pleasure and needs or for others pleasure and needs. Most of us like to receive pleasure but I am more interested in if you receive pleasure from meeting your Dominant/Masters needs first and your own needs first.

_____________________________

Most of the time if it looks like BS, smells like BS, you probably should not t taste it to see if, in fact, it is BS.

(in reply to sweetnurseBBW)

Post #: 71

RE: Why do you do it? - 6/27/2007 10:50:30 AM

slavegirljoy

Posts: 1207
Joined: 11/6/2006
From: North Carolina, USA
Status: offline

i understand what you are saying and i appreciate your views. What i am saying is that we have very different definitions of the word "selfish", which is probably why we don't see this issue the same way. Of course, being "self-ish" provides positive benefits for the individual but, it is at the expense of or without any regard for others, as the word is defined in my dictionary and as i have always known it to mean.

i never said that it is wrong or negative to have motivations that are based on selfish reasons. i simply argued against the statement that we all have motivations that are based on selfish reasons and that someone else can say what another's motivations are. i don't agree with that statement and that is what i have said.

i believe that i do see where dark is coming from on this issue and i don't fault her for having her perspective. It's just that i have the complete opposite perspective and i have stated so. That's all there is to it. Nothing more, nothing less.
____________
slave joy
Owned property of Master David

"..and those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music."
-- F. Nietzsche

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

No one is saying that it is not your truth. What I am saying is that if you were to take all of the negativity out of the equation you may be able to see a broader definition of the word. Think of self-ish as anything that has any benefit whatsoever to self and you may understand the meaning from dark's perspective....not that you have to own it for yourself....just to see where she is coming from.

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 72

RE: Why do you do it? - 6/27/2007 11:09:46 AM

LuckyAlbatross

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Joined: 10/25/2005
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On the other hand, if someone told you they wanted you to do something, and it was against your masters wishes, you likely wouldn't do it- you'd have no regard for what the other person wanted, and care only about your own situation.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to slavegirljoy)

Post #: 73

RE: Why do you do it? - 6/27/2007 11:15:09 AM

RCdc

Posts: 8674
Status: offline

I wish I could remember - I tried to google it and can't find the damn thing, but I definately remember it being from a asian perspective, so it could be a buddhist or hindi quote or someone like Gibran.

Peace
the.dark.

_____________________________

RC&dc

love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to justheather)

Post #: 74

RE: Why do you do it? - 6/27/2007 11:16:08 AM

DarkDreams123

Posts: 74
Joined: 1/25/2007
Status: offline

Hi Joy,

I'm sorry if I have "stepped on your toes" as that was not my intent. I am not attacking you. I am also not attacking the people who choose professions such as firefighting, police, the medical profession, teachers, missionaries, etc. I am very thankful that there are people who are doing these things.

Please, let's just cool down and see this as purely a debate. Nothing personal.

I agree with you about the kind of selfishness that comes at someone else's expense. I believe that is wrong. But I'm not talking about that kind of selfishness.

Have you ever read any of the works of Ayn Rand? (by the way justheather, nice joke!)

Now, I don't subscribe to her philosophy in its entirety, but I do think she brings up some good points. Selfishness in some ways has a "bad rap". Sometimes selfishness is a good thing (as in the example that mistoferin has given).

I guess my point is that it is very hard to find something that we do that does not have at least an element of self-centeredness in it. You gave the example of caring for your baby. Now understand that I'm not saying that there isn't a large degree of selflessness in caring for your child. I understand that. But there is also some degree of selfishness in it, too. You do recieve a "payoff" of sorts. It makes you feel good to take care of your daughter. That isn't bad. If we didn't get some kind of "payoff" for doing good things, why would we do them?

In your chosen faith, Christianity, you obey God's commandments. Do you do this only because it is His command? Doesn't your obedience give you any kind of satisfaction?

I don't think this point of view is antithetical with your faith at all. The Bible promises all kinds of rewards to the faithful. If those rewards were not meant to be a motivation, why would they be mentioned at all?

What it boils down to is that I believe that we humans don't do much of anything without some kind of return in it. That doesn't mean that each and every act must have an immediate return. But, ultimately, we don't engage in behaviors where we don't receive some kind of benefit. Recognizing this and believing that this is actually a good thing can be very helpful in a relationship. Realizing your own needs and communicating them to your partner, and not condemning yourself for having them, can lead to a much better relationship.

Thanks for the discussion.

-DarkDreams

(in reply to slavegirljoy)

Post #: 75

RE: Why do you do it? - 6/27/2007 11:19:09 AM

daddysprop247

Posts: 1712
Joined: 6/24/2005
From: DC Metro area
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

On the other hand, if someone told you they wanted you to do something, and it was against your masters wishes, you likely wouldn't do it- you'd have no regard for what the other person wanted, and care only about your own situation.

actually, i used to be punished for that very thing...going against my Master's commands or wishes in order to serve someone else. as it's always been my nature to please, again whether i wished to do so or not, it could easily lead to pleasing one at the expense of displeasing another, which is exactly what used to happen. the only thing that changed that is my Master further isolating me from the outside world and restricting my life, so that such disobedience is not possible.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 76

RE: Why do you do it? - 6/27/2007 11:31:18 AM

RCdc

Posts: 8674
Status: offline

Hello Joy

Whether we agree on the definition of selfishness or not (which we do - you just see a different angle and negative connotations) - domination and submission are selfish acts because no matter what ones motivation is - you still 'need' it's opposite for it to exist at the regardless of other aspects. You admitted that you needed to fulfil your inner peace... that submission gave you that. That is selfishness - healthy, self aware and completely natural.

You still stopped (per your example) to help because you wanted to. That is still a selfish act. You wanted something in return - to be of assistance - and you got it.
I understand we just view selfishness as different. But that doesn't stop the fact that I still see selfishness in your actions and that those that see and understand their selfishness is a beautiful self awareness to me.

Have a wonderful evening and thank you for an interesting discussion.

Peace
the.dark.

< Message edited by Darcyandthedark -- 6/27/2007 11:33:21 AM >

_____________________________

RC&dc

love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to slavegirljoy)

Post #: 77

RE: Why do you do it? - 6/27/2007 2:53:11 PM

daddysprop247

Posts: 1712
Joined: 6/24/2005
From: DC Metro area
Status: offline

actually thedark i agree with you on that point...that Dominance and submission need its opposite in order to exist. one can dominate in the absence of submission, and one can submit in the absence of domination. while i certainly need a Dominant in my life in order to be fulfilled, i do not need a Dominant or even for anyone to "act" dominant in order for me to submit. it's like a sneeze, it's just what i do.

i'd be interested to know your view on submissive children....do you feel their submission is selfish...self-aware, self-serving...as well? also do you agree that not every submissive submits out of a desire to do so? and one more question, just where does your definition of "selfish" derive from, as i've never seen it defined in such a way?

(in reply to RCdc)

Post #: 78

RE: Why do you do it? - 6/27/2007 2:56:18 PM

slavegirljoy

Posts: 1207
Joined: 11/6/2006
From: North Carolina, USA
Status: offline

If someone told me they wanted me to do something? If someone told me? Unless, i am their employee or they are a police office or some such emergency personnel, i have no reason or obligation to do anything someone else tells me to do. i do what my Master tells me to do. He is the one that i answer to. If i wanted to do something, whether for myself or someone else, and it went against my Master's wishes, i would not only be acting selfishly, by fulfilling my wants with no regard for my Master's but, i would be in big trouble because i would be disobeying Him.

First, i chose to become my Master's property and turn my life over to His direction, control, and will. Being my Master's property, for me, means that His wants take precedence over mine or anyone else's. i gave up my free will to Him, not to the entire world. Besides, He usually volunteers me to help others, any way. They don't need to ask and i don't need to do it against His wishes.

Second, i have never said that i am not a selfish person. All i have said is that i disagreed with the statement that "all motivation is selfish" and, i said that i believe that no one can know what another person's motivation is. Then, i went on to give, what i know to be the definition of selfish, selfishness, and selfless. Then, when asked to give an example of one selfless act, i gave three, one of which was a personal account.

i don't know what else to say. i never said that anyone else was wrong to consider their motivation to be based on selfish reasons. i just took exception to anyone saying that they know the motivations of anyone else and that it's always selfish.
____________
slave joy
Owned property of Master David

"..and those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music."
-- F. Nietzsche

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

On the other hand, if someone told you they wanted you to do something, and it was against your masters wishes, you likely wouldn't do it- you'd have no regard for what the other person wanted, and care only about your own situation.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 79

RE: Why do you do it? - 6/27/2007 3:37:13 PM

RCdc

Posts: 8674
Status: offline

quote:

i'd be interested to know your view on submissive children....do you feel their submission is selfish...self-aware, self-serving...as well?

I would be happy to answer, however I am not sure if the question is allowed under the TOS of CM - if Mod 11 or someone gives it that all clear, I am happy to answer.

quote:

also do you agree that not every submissive submits out of a desire to do so?

Yes I do to a certain extent that submission is instinctive to some people. But the act of 'doing' then becomes the act.

quote:

and one more question, just where does your definition of "selfish" derive from, as i've never seen it defined in such a way?

From the same place as you and everyone else. The only difference it seems is that some see the word as negative, and I do not.

Peace
the.dark.

_____________________________

RC&dc

love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to daddysprop247)

Post #: 80

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