Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

US to fingerprint EU visitors


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid >> US to fingerprint EU visitors Page: [1] 2 3   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
US to fingerprint EU visitors - 6/25/2007 12:58:08 PM   
cyberdude611


Posts: 2596
Joined: 5/7/2006
Status: offline
U.S. to fingerprint E.U. visitors

Visitors from European nations traveling with visas or visa-free to the United States will soon have to give 10 digital fingerprints when entering the country, a senior U.S. Homeland Security official said Monday.

Border checks could also soon include other biometric data, such as facial and eye retina scans, as the U.S. upgrades security at its ports, airports and border crossings, said P.T. Wright, the operations director for the U.S. Department of Homeland Security's US-VISIT Program.

All people from European nations and others participating in the U.S. Visa-Waiver program would have to give additional prints, as would people traveling from nations where visas are needed, he said.

Wright, who was in Brussels to explain the new system to EU officials, said a pilot project at 10 major U.S. airports would be launched in late 2007, expanding the current program that calls for taking prints of two fingers and facial photographs.

Since the two-fingerprint scans were introduced in 2004, Wright said, security and convenience for travelers has gotten better.
"What we have encountered in the last four years is improved security as well as greater facilitation of the traveler coming to the United States," Wright said. "It's a very quick and simple scan of the fingers."

U.S. travel security restrictions have caused increased opposition in EU nations, amid demands from Brussels that Washington expand its visa-waiver program to include all 27 EU nations.

The current program allows citizens from most Western European countries and some other parts of the world to enter the country without visas, but excludes many of the newer EU member states.

EU data protection officials also have raised concerns in the past over the U.S. system and over a similar fingerprint system being set up by EU nations. They are keen to get the best privacy guarantees for citizens.

Wright said data was collected on visitors under strict U.S. privacy protection rules, and that the new 10-print scan would not take more time than the current check — usually about 10 seconds.

The prints are checked against U.S. security watch lists drawn up by U.S. Homeland Security and other policing agencies. The Federal Bureau of Investigation and the Central Intelligence Agency also have access to the prints, Wright said.

The 10-print scans would be "virtually 100 percent match accurate," he said.

"We are going to know that that's you," Wright said. Future changes include adding other biometric identifiers — such as facial or retinal scans — to better rule out fraud, he said.

"The fingerprint is a foundation biometric, so once your identity is established using the fingerprint and your identity is fixed then we believe for verifying we can move to any of the future technologies as they become better and faster," he said.

Airports chosen for the initial pilot project include Boston Logan International, Chicago's O'Hare, George Bush Houston Intercontinental, Detroit Metropolitan Wayne County, Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International, Miami International, John F. Kennedy International, Orlando International, San Francisco International and Washington Dulles International.

The current US-VISIT program that uses a two-print arrival system is being used in 115 airports, 15 seaports and 154 land border checks. 100 million prints had been taken so far.

More than 34,000 people whose names showed up on U.S. watch lists were denied U.S. entry as a result of the system.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070625/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/eu_us_travel_security
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: US to fingerprint EU visitors - 6/25/2007 1:27:54 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:


The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.


Well, so much for being "secure in their persons", eh?



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to cyberdude611)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: US to fingerprint EU visitors - 6/25/2007 1:31:17 PM   
mrbob726


Posts: 155
Joined: 4/15/2007
From: Illinois
Status: offline
oh come on fargle - they aren't US citizens, and the constitution only covers US citizens. Get real!

_____________________________

"Love many, Trust few, Harm none" (Yau Man, Survivor Fiji)

"If builders built buildings the way some programmers write programs, the first woodpecker to come along would destroy civilization."

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: US to fingerprint EU visitors - 6/25/2007 1:32:38 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

quote:


The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.


Well, so much for being "secure in their persons", eh?




Ah Fargle, this program is for foreigners not U.S. Citizens.

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: US to fingerprint EU visitors - 6/25/2007 1:40:23 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
I see the word PEOPLE not CITIZEN. Where do you see the word "CITIZEN"?



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: US to fingerprint EU visitors - 6/25/2007 1:44:28 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

I see the word PEOPLE not CITIZEN. Where do you see the word "CITIZEN"?




Fargle, when the Founding Fathers came up with the *U.S.* Constitution they were making it for the *United States* not for other countries.
How could they speak for other countries?

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: US to fingerprint EU visitors - 6/25/2007 1:49:03 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

I see the word PEOPLE not CITIZEN. Where do you see the word "CITIZEN"?




Fargle, when the Founding Fathers came up with the *U.S.* Constitution they were making it for the *United States* not for other countries.
How could they speak for other countries?


The US Constitution tell the US GOVERNMENT what they are permitted to do.

Since it doesn't say the US can limit RIGHTS to CITIZENS, and specifically extends them to PEOPLE, then the US cannot limit to whom they extend protection for unalienable rights.

Remember, the US Constitution doesn't GIVE THE PEOPLE ANYTHING. It TELLS THE GOVERNMENT WHAT **THE GOVERNMENT*** IS PERMITTED.



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: US to fingerprint EU visitors - 6/25/2007 1:49:38 PM   
slaveboyforyou


Posts: 3607
Joined: 1/6/2005
From: Arkansas, U.S.A.
Status: offline
quote:

I see the word PEOPLE not CITIZEN. Where do you see the word "CITIZEN"?


It says "the people" not just "people." 

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: US to fingerprint EU visitors - 6/25/2007 1:52:09 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
Are you going to say that there's a difference? That People is not the same as people?

Then WHY do they use CITIZEN to specifically mean CITIZEN in other amendments?

Because there, they MEANT Citizen, and here, they mean The People.



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to slaveboyforyou)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: US to fingerprint EU visitors - 6/25/2007 1:58:09 PM   
slaveboyforyou


Posts: 3607
Joined: 1/6/2005
From: Arkansas, U.S.A.
Status: offline
Yes I am saying there is a difference.  There is a difference in the meaning of a noun when you use an article in front of the noun.  If I say dog, you have no idea what dog I am talking about.  If I say the dog, than I am obviously talking about a specific dog.  "The" is a definite article that is used in front of nouns to specify a particular person, group, or object.  The people implies a specific body of people, not just people in general. 

There is also something else you have missed.  Until you walk through customs, you are not on American soil.  You are not protected by the Constitution while on foreign soil.

< Message edited by slaveboyforyou -- 6/25/2007 2:05:18 PM >

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: US to fingerprint EU visitors - 6/25/2007 2:04:19 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
How so? Since the Constitution ABSOLUTELY limits Federal Power, how can those ABSOLUTE LIMITS stop at the Border?

If you are an agent of the US Government, the Constitution limits your actions. Those limits do not stop at the border.

Where did you get the incorrect belief that the Constitution does anything BUT delegate authority to the Feds from The People, and that the explicit limits to that authority are restricted in any way?



< Message edited by farglebargle -- 6/25/2007 2:05:12 PM >


_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to slaveboyforyou)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: US to fingerprint EU visitors - 6/25/2007 2:07:05 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle


quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

I see the word PEOPLE not CITIZEN. Where do you see the word "CITIZEN"?




Fargle, when the Founding Fathers came up with the *U.S.* Constitution they were making it for the *United States* not for other countries.
How could they speak for other countries?


The US Constitution tell the US GOVERNMENT what they are permitted to do.

Since it doesn't say the US can limit RIGHTS to CITIZENS, and specifically extends them to PEOPLE, then the US cannot limit to whom they extend protection for unalienable rights.

Remember, the US Constitution doesn't GIVE THE PEOPLE ANYTHING. It TELLS THE GOVERNMENT WHAT **THE GOVERNMENT*** IS PERMITTED.




Fargle, it's called the *US* Constitution.
It doesn't apply to people in Poland, Japan or Russia.
It only applies to U.S. Citizens.
If someone has a problem with being fingerprinted then they don't have to come here, do they?

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: US to fingerprint EU visitors - 6/25/2007 2:10:39 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250


Fargle, it's called the *US* Constitution.



Correct. And as such, it defines the DELEGATED AUTHORITY, permitted the Federal Government of the united States.

quote:


It doesn't apply to people in Poland, Japan or Russia.


It doesn't apply to people in the US, either.

IT APPLIES TO THE US FEDERAL GOVERNMENT ONLY.

Wherever the Government goes, the Constitution tells them what they are permitted to do.



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: US to fingerprint EU visitors - 6/25/2007 2:12:58 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
It doesn't apply to people?
Oh forget it!

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: US to fingerprint EU visitors - 6/25/2007 2:16:09 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

It doesn't apply to people?
Oh forget it!



It DOESN'T. It says "The Federal Government MAY do a, b, c, and is PROHIBITED from doing x, y, z."

As the SOVEREIGN here, The People DO NOT NEED ANYTHING GRANTED. They hold all the Sovereign Authority already, and "Delegate" various subsets of that Authority to either the State or Federal Government.

The 4th amendment's statement: "The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed" doesn't GIVE The People that right.

It PROHIBITS the Federal Government from infringing upon the right they've gotten from ( as per the Declaration of Independence ) Their Creator.



< Message edited by farglebargle -- 6/25/2007 2:17:22 PM >


_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: US to fingerprint EU visitors - 6/25/2007 2:22:01 PM   
slaveboyforyou


Posts: 3607
Joined: 1/6/2005
From: Arkansas, U.S.A.
Status: offline
quote:

How so? Since the Constitution ABSOLUTELY limits Federal Power, how can those ABSOLUTE LIMITS stop at the Border?

If you are an agent of the US Government, the Constitution limits your actions. Those limits do not stop at the border.

Where did you get the incorrect belief that the Constitution does anything BUT delegate authority to the Feds from The People, and that the explicit limits to that authority are restricted in any way?


I see that you are not going to admit your misinterpretation of the language in the portion of THE Constitution you quoted, which was my main point. 

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: US to fingerprint EU visitors - 6/25/2007 2:27:00 PM   
mrbob726


Posts: 155
Joined: 4/15/2007
From: Illinois
Status: offline
fargle, if you don't equate "the people" as espoused in the constitution to mean U.S. citizens, where do you  think, "We, The People of the United States......." in the preamble came from? That says it all, I think. And now I'm gonna stop beating my head against the wall, because it will feel so good when I stop.
*** edited for clarity***


< Message edited by mrbob726 -- 6/25/2007 2:29:21 PM >


_____________________________

"Love many, Trust few, Harm none" (Yau Man, Survivor Fiji)

"If builders built buildings the way some programmers write programs, the first woodpecker to come along would destroy civilization."

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: US to fingerprint EU visitors - 6/25/2007 2:28:36 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou

quote:

How so? Since the Constitution ABSOLUTELY limits Federal Power, how can those ABSOLUTE LIMITS stop at the Border?

If you are an agent of the US Government, the Constitution limits your actions. Those limits do not stop at the border.

Where did you get the incorrect belief that the Constitution does anything BUT delegate authority to the Feds from The People, and that the explicit limits to that authority are restricted in any way?


I see that you are not going to admit your misinterpretation of the language in the portion of THE Constitution you quoted, which was my main point.


That's because your point is pointless.

I've already told you, if they meant "CITIZEN" they would have written "CITIZEN" so your grasping about trying to read into the clear text is pointless.

And how exactly do you determine if a particular person is part of "the people" , rather than a citizen?

How about this? NON-CITIZENS are superior to the Federal Government, too. THEY are part of "The People".





_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to slaveboyforyou)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: US to fingerprint EU visitors - 6/25/2007 2:52:11 PM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

U.S. to electrocute the eyeballs of E.U. visitors



'Was always on the cards.


_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to cyberdude611)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: US to fingerprint EU visitors - 6/25/2007 2:54:54 PM   
slaveboyforyou


Posts: 3607
Joined: 1/6/2005
From: Arkansas, U.S.A.
Status: offline
quote:

That's because your point is pointless.

I've already told you, if they meant "CITIZEN" they would have written "CITIZEN" so your grasping about trying to read into the clear text is pointless.

And how exactly do you determine if a particular person is part of "the people" , rather than a citizen?

How about this? NON-CITIZENS are superior to the Federal Government, too. THEY are part of "The People".


Going by your logic, than a non-citizen should have the right to vote in the United States as well.  The Constitution as written in 1787 never defined who a citizen was.  That distinction came with the 14th amendement.  As I pointed out, the use of the article "The" is deliberate.  It indicates a specific body of people. 

The Constitution does give power and authority to the government by consent of The People to enforce laws made by Congress, which is also empowered by The People to make laws.  The Supreme Court decides if those laws fall within the restraints of the Constitution, and the Supreme Court derives that power from The People.  The Congress has passed laws concerning travel, which the Supreme Court has upheld, and the Executive branch enforces those laws.   

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 20
Page:   [1] 2 3   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid >> US to fingerprint EU visitors Page: [1] 2 3   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.105