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what makes someone "useless" - 7/2/2007 9:16:09 AM   
LadyEllen


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Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		This came up in the "whilst you are fast asleep in your bed" thread - the idea that some people are just plain, all round useless. Not useless at some things but totally hopeless at everything in life in general, unable to or unwilling to compete or even participate in society.

I wondered how one could define such uselessness, if its possible at all? There are a fair few people in my neighbourhood who appear to be useless - perfectly fit and able, not afflicted with anything but yet not taking any part in the world at all and in fact being a drain on society with petty criminality and reliance on benefits. Yet theyre not actually useless - so is it a lifestyle choice, and if so is it a less valid lifestyle choice because they dont fund it themselves or because we disapprove of how they spend their lives? And is that why we deem them useless?

Then there are a fair few people I know who suffer depression, amongst other illnesses - they probably come closest to what I would describe as useless but not in a nasty way, but because they just have no motivation because of their illness, which is hardly their fault.

Then there is another group, which crosses over with the two earlier mentioned - the alcoholics and drug addicts. They dont work because they cant as no one would hire them, and in the main dont want to work either, preferring the haze of substance abuse to reality. But then, when I have got to know these people, they are hardly useless either, and are hooked on whatever it is because of mental illness, abuse or some other trauma which took them down that road in the first place - a reality they couldnt face which booze or drugs hid from them for a while.

And of all these groups, there a very few who, if they were to die tomorrow their deaths would not affect anyone except insofar as the quality of life for those remaining would improve. Harsh, but true. Is that what makes someone useless, in that they have negative worth in the world?

But throughout all these groups, the recurrent theme I see is of lives squandered by parental and/or peer influence and lives damaged by the same causes. The potential of a human life thrown away because of the lack of concern and care and the active demonstration of their opposites. So, is a "useless" person then the product of such a process of neglect and abuse, and a natural product at that?

And from that, do we do ourselves and our children any good whatsoever by repeating the same process with new victims for the meat grinder of life and reinforcing the notion that damaged human beings are useless, so that for generations to come we shall have the "useless" forever in society?

Or is such a categorisation inevitable in a species which is as competitive as ours, where some will fall to the bottom just as some will rise to the top, and that whatever we attempt to do, this will occur regardless because of the vagaries of what is a dangerous life in an uncertain world?

E

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RE: what makes someone "useless" - 7/2/2007 9:26:23 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline 		Hello Lady E
 
There is another thread going as well where I saw the mention of people being of not enough value.
I guess I just value everyone.  I don't believe a person needs to have empathy to place value in a person, animal or object, whatever.  I don't have to fully understand fire or feel its emotion to know if it's value or it's use.  Same as people in society.  I don't believe any person of minority of society is useless because I believe they are teaching at least something - even if it is in a negative way.
 
I rather likes Sinergys response when he mentioned Douglas Adams.
 
Peace
the.dark.

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RE: what makes someone "useless" - 7/2/2007 9:45:38 AM   
GeekyGirl


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Joined: 8/21/2006
Status: offline 		I find criminals of most sorts to be useless...by this, I mean people who are habitual repeat offenders, NOT someone who just got in trouble once or twice when they were young or over some weird misunderstanding. I'm talking drug dealers, crack whores, habitual thieves, etc.

People who are too lazy to work.

People who abuse goverment welfare benefits (using them is one thing...abusing is another.)

Pedophiles are pretty useless to me, as well, just because anything else they could do would never make up for the harm they cause.

Not all people have value, any more than all dogs have value (which is why we spay and neuter, because some things aren't worth reproducing). Some do, some don't....



< Message edited by GeekyGirl -- 7/2/2007 9:46:27 AM >

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RE: what makes someone "useless" - 7/2/2007 9:53:19 AM   
Sinergy


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I will post it again, but it has relevance on what defines uselessness as much as it has relevance on the death penalty.  Looked at a certain way, the idea of a "useless" person would be one that has no business taking up a carbon footprint as a living person.

Frodo:  "Gollum deserves to die"

Gandalf:  "Yes, he does, but many who die deserve life.  Can you give it to them?  Be not hasty in dealing out
death in judgement, for not even the wise can see all ends."

Perhaps this useless person will have some purpose, some eventual reason for existing, either as a living person or due to some interaction rippling down through time in a Butterfly effect.  I dont know.  It is not my place to render judgement on them.  The words "There but for the grace of God go I," although I consider myself an agnostic with atheistic tendencies.

To go back to what I quoted from Douglas Adams, that civilization put the people they considered useless on a space ship and sent them away, only to have a disease those useless people protected them from contracting wipe out their civilization.

If everything happens for a reason, do we really have an understanding of the reason for this person we consider useless?

Sinergy

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RE: what makes someone "useless" - 7/2/2007 9:54:11 AM   
instynctive


Posts: 2726
Status: offline 		I think people that prowl message forums to spread hate and discontent (otherwise known as "trolls" in some circles) are useless.. ranking right up there with spammers, WalMart greeters and GW Bush.

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RE: what makes someone "useless" - 7/2/2007 10:05:48 AM   
CrimsonMoan


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From: Portland, Me via Las Vegas Nv
Status: offline 		now now the seniors do need to get out and do something and if being eerily chipper at the front door of walmart is it let them have fun. personally I don't think anyone is useless or worthless. Everyone serves a purpose in someway or another. You see a bunch of homless people living in tents or under the overpass. It inspires you or someone elese to lobby for better shelter and help for them. Hmm not so useless now are they? The evil in our socitey serve the purpose of reminding us that there are bad people in the world yes but that they are also a lot more GOOD people in the world. As for animals they remind us of unconditional love.

And we don't spay and nuture our dogs for that? We do that because as a whole there are not enough animal lovers and too many animals. WE do it because for some peopel the simple idea of Bitch in heat? Bitch stays indoor is too advanced for them.

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RE: what makes someone "useless" - 7/2/2007 10:08:10 AM   
GeekyGirl


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Status: offline 		Well I spay and neuter MY pets because they aren't outstanding examples of the breeds and hence have no business reproducing. I come from the dog show world and good examples of the breed are left intact and bad ones aren't.

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"It's nothing that I understand, but when in your arms you have complete power over me. So be gentle if you please, 'cause your hands are in my hair, but my heart is in your teeth and it makes me want to make you near me always."

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RE: what makes someone "useless" - 7/2/2007 10:08:53 AM   
Sinergy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CrimsonMoan

Bitch stays indoor



Thats what Im talking about.

I want to go out with my buddies on a Saturday night?  Bitch stays indoors until I get home so she can drop to her knees and smile like a donut.

Sinergy 

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


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RE: what makes someone "useless" - 7/2/2007 10:23:16 AM   
instynctive


Posts: 2726
Status: offline 		Point taken.. 9 times out of 10 that I've seen, they just stand/sit there and stare into nothingness.. the WalMart in Windham is good for that, although the one in Oxford/Norway, folks are just a lot more hospitable.

quote:

ORIGINAL: CrimsonMoan

now now the seniors do need to get out and do something and if being eerily chipper at the front door of walmart is it let them have fun. personally I don't think anyone is useless or worthless. Everyone serves a purpose in someway or another. You see a bunch of homless people living in tents or under the overpass. It inspires you or someone elese to lobby for better shelter and help for them. Hmm not so useless now are they? The evil in our socitey serve the purpose of reminding us that there are bad people in the world yes but that they are also a lot more GOOD people in the world. As for animals they remind us of unconditional love.

And we don't spay and nuture our dogs for that? We do that because as a whole there are not enough animal lovers and too many animals. WE do it because for some peopel the simple idea of Bitch in heat? Bitch stays indoor is too advanced for them.

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RE: what makes someone "useless" - 7/2/2007 10:25:13 AM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GeekyGirl

Well I spay and neuter MY pets because they aren't outstanding examples of the breeds and hence have no business reproducing. I come from the dog show world and good examples of the breed are left intact and bad ones aren't.


So, translating this back to people........

But first we need to know which should be neutered?

E

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RE: what makes someone "useless" - 7/2/2007 10:26:26 AM   
instynctive


Posts: 2726
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen
So, translating this back to people........

But first we need to know which should be neutered?

E


Apparently anyone GeekyGirl doesn't like.. ;-)  LOL

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RE: what makes someone "useless" - 7/2/2007 10:28:32 AM   
GeekyGirl


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Joined: 8/21/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: instynctive

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen
So, translating this back to people........

But first we need to know which should be neutered?

E


Apparently anyone GeekyGirl doesn't like.. ;-)  LOL



Na, just "career criminals" "pedophiles" etc.It's not about "not liking them." I've met some criminals I liked just fine. And I've met some lazy people I liked just fine (like my ex husband for one!)


_____________________________

"It's nothing that I understand, but when in your arms you have complete power over me. So be gentle if you please, 'cause your hands are in my hair, but my heart is in your teeth and it makes me want to make you near me always."

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RE: what makes someone "useless" - 7/2/2007 10:32:25 AM   
mistoferin


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Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline 		I don't believe that any human being is useless....but some are very unappealing. People who choose to live in ivory towers, ride around on self righteous, high horses and sit upon pedestals looking down their noses at everyone they deem beneath them are certainly among the unappealing (and far less usefull). When you couple that with using excuses that they are that way because they have some condition (like Asperger's) as a means of obscuring themselves from the blatant image they present in the mirror you can probably come pretty darn close to having a person that you might consider pretty useless. Still not a useless human being....but probably as close as you might come to finding one.

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RE: what makes someone "useless" - 7/2/2007 10:34:49 AM   
GeekyGirl


Posts: 905
Joined: 8/21/2006
Status: offline 		And likewise bleeding heart liberals who feel the need to be overly empathetic and douse every thing they say in sugar are unappealing too.

If you were going to talk about me, you should have just said, "I think Geeky Girl is unappealing". No need to work around it. It doesn't offend me, because I do not seek the company of people who don't think like I do.


_____________________________

"It's nothing that I understand, but when in your arms you have complete power over me. So be gentle if you please, 'cause your hands are in my hair, but my heart is in your teeth and it makes me want to make you near me always."

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RE: what makes someone "useless" - 7/2/2007 10:36:28 AM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		Sinergy, who are "Frodo" and "Gandalf?"

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RE: what makes someone "useless" - 7/2/2007 10:37:49 AM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GeekyGirl

People who abuse goverment welfare benefits (using them is one thing...abusing is another.)



You mean like the rich and the affluent middleclasses? Because they are the main recipients of welfare in western societies, not the poor who always get the blame from the priveleged groups.

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RE: what makes someone "useless" - 7/2/2007 10:37:50 AM   
GeekyGirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Sinergy, who are "Frodo" and "Gandalf?"


Popeye, I sure hope you're joking!

But if you aren't, they are characters from The Lord of the Rings.


_____________________________

"It's nothing that I understand, but when in your arms you have complete power over me. So be gentle if you please, 'cause your hands are in my hair, but my heart is in your teeth and it makes me want to make you near me always."

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RE: what makes someone "useless" - 7/2/2007 10:38:35 AM   
KenDckey


Posts: 4121
Joined: 5/31/2006
Status: offline 		I had a guy (soldier) that worked for me once that I considered totally useless.

Boy was a genius.  Could play chess with the chess masters of europe.  Couldn't file alphabetically.  Couldn't march.  When he washed his clothes he would throw them in his locker still wet because he forgot to dry them.   And susually he forgot to use soap when he did wash them.   I spent 8 hrs one saturday trying to teach him how to shine his boots.   They looked worse after we got done.   I sent him off to other jobs to see if he could cope with them and he always showed back up in my office within a couple hrs because he just walked out.   His roommate threw him out the 2nd story window 3 times.   Boy bounced good.   I finally had to put him out of the Army and unleash him on society.   He was a danger to himself and others in a military concept.

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RE: what makes someone "useless" - 7/2/2007 10:39:08 AM   
GeekyGirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

quote:

ORIGINAL: GeekyGirl

People who abuse goverment welfare benefits (using them is one thing...abusing is another.)



You mean like the rich and the affluent middleclasses? Because they are the main recipients of welfare in western societies, not the poor who always get the blame from the priveleged groups.


No I mean the women with no jobs who have numerous kids just to get more food stamps for example...or the people who live off the system and never try to better themselves.

I've yet to see a rich person using food stamps at walmart....


_____________________________

"It's nothing that I understand, but when in your arms you have complete power over me. So be gentle if you please, 'cause your hands are in my hair, but my heart is in your teeth and it makes me want to make you near me always."

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RE: what makes someone "useless" - 7/2/2007 10:40:10 AM   
Sinergy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Sinergy, who are "Frodo" and "Gandalf?"


J.R.R. Tolkein's Lord Of The Rings trilogy.

They made movies out of them a few years ago.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


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