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RE: Remembering safewords - 7/2/2007 11:07:22 PM

AquaticSub

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

It's not ignorant, it's not unsafe, the use of them isn't common sense and people who don't use them are not asking for trouble. I have written countless posts on here detailing real life situations where safewords did more harm than good. I am adamantly opposed to the use of prescripted words that are given some kind of magical power that someone is going to rely upon to keep them safe. We all know how to communicate without having to resort to code. Safewords are not a replacement for using common sense and making good decisions in who we play with. If you have not done that there is no word in the dictionary that is going to help you.

Slaverosebeauty, I am going to take this one step farther. I find it highly offensive that a person in your position would have the audacity to come on here and give real life advice like you are some kind of an authority. I know what I mean by that and so do you, so I will leave it at that. As for LA, I am sure that she can answer for herself but I can not believe that you would specifically name her in such a manner to suggest that SHE doesn't know what she is doing.

No Erin, they aren't a replacement for common sense. But common sense also tells us what a safeword is: just another tool in the safety box and frankly, having another safety tool isn't a bad thing. I'm willing to bet that as many people have been injured relying on their dominant to know what is wrong as have been injured thinking their safeword would magically save them. Either way is ignorant and neither one is better.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 21

RE: Remembering safewords - 7/2/2007 11:14:41 PM

mistoferin

Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline

Yes, they are a tool....but in my opinion they are an inferior tool. I have tools that I feel are much more suited to the task at hand. But you already know that...my stance on safewords is no secret around here. It hasn't changed in a whole lotta years, don't see much chance of it changing today. If people want to use them, that's their choice...I choose not to and I don't hesitate to explain the reasons behind that choice.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to AquaticSub)

Post #: 22

RE: Remembering safewords - 7/2/2007 11:17:59 PM

becca333

Posts: 1050
Joined: 4/11/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MagiksSlave

(That's their JOB. My job is to wiggle, squeal and hit subspace, then make happy noises.)

Im sorry but I just had a problem with this sentence. Isnt it also the subs job to make sure she is safe as well??? I always thought it was the subs number one job to make sure she was safe. I dont have a safe word but me and Master constently communicate during a scene and he will stop if I say something, I go rather silent during a scene but he asks questions and wont go further untill they are answered. It is hard but Im learning to be able to communicat better while in subspace. As time has gone on he hasnt done it AS often but he still asks some. it is my obligations to let him know where I am at.

Magik's slave

The sub's job is whatever the Dom says it is. I choose my partners very carefully, I'm very clear about limits, I make sure I can trust. Once the action starts, he sets the pace and makes the decisions. I love being a sub, I love giving him the power. I love him controlling me and playing my body like an instrument. He monitors me, he knows when to stop. I'd safeword if I ever had to - I'm sometimes disappointed that he stops too soon (in my view), often he seems to know exactly what I can take and goes just to that limit.

I do my job beforehand, once the fun starts it's his job to do, mine to be.

(in reply to MagiksSlave)

Post #: 23

RE: Remembering safewords - 7/2/2007 11:24:42 PM

AquaticSub

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

Yes, they are a tool....but in my opinion they are an inferior tool. I have tools that I feel are much more suited to the task at hand. But you already know that...my stance on safewords is no secret around here. It hasn't changed in a whole lotta years, don't see much chance of it changing today. If people want to use them, that's their choice...I choose not to and I don't hesitate to explain the reasons behind that choice.

Yes you have. However, I still remain unconvinced that having another safety tool is ever a bad thing. I don't think it's possible to have too many safety procautions and frankly, this is a risky thing we do. People get hurt. It sucks but it's true. And since I like being able to say "no, stop" without him actually stopping during a scene... *Shrugs* I don't see any way to get around using a word to mean stop that isn't actually... you know... stop.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 24

RE: Remembering safewords - 7/2/2007 11:29:30 PM

mistoferin

Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
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Well gosh, I've very effectively stopped scenes before...and "stop" didn't even come into play. Or red...or supercalifragilisticexpialidocious.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to AquaticSub)

Post #: 25

RE: Remembering safewords - 7/2/2007 11:33:01 PM

angelslave77

Posts: 478
Joined: 5/14/2007
Status: offline

Because my Dom and I havent been together long and are finding our feet so to speak, he is very careful with me, making sure I am ok and that he isnt pushing me to far to fast, but at the same time trying to find my limits. We use the stop light system too but havent needed them yet, my body language seems to give me away but I know they are there if I do need them.

I must say LA I like the idea of the triage system it seems to give a more acurate picture of things.

(in reply to AquaticSub)

Post #: 26

RE: Remembering safewords - 7/2/2007 11:33:36 PM

AquaticSub

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

Well gosh, I've very effectively stopped scenes before...and "stop" didn't even come into play. Or red...or supercalifragilisticexpialidocious.

Charming, Erin, charming. I can only assume that you used physical means which I find distasteful in a committed relationship. I'll stick my with safeword for rape scenes and "Valyraen, something is wrong" for non-rape scenes.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 27

RE: Remembering safewords - 7/2/2007 11:37:46 PM

mistoferin

Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

Well gosh, I've very effectively stopped scenes before...and "stop" didn't even come into play. Or red...or supercalifragilisticexpialidocious.

Charming, Erin, charming. I can only assume that you used physical means which I find distasteful in a committed relationship. I'll stick my with safeword for rape scenes and "Valyraen, something is wrong" for non-rape scenes.

You took that entirely the wrong way. And no...there were no physical means employed. I know it may sound amazing but I simply communicated what was wrong.

Aquatic, I believe you and I simply have to agree to disagree on this one. You are happy with how you do it and it's working for you...that's cool. I'm real happy with how I do it...so really, I don't see an issue that you and I have to keep trying to rehash. I'm really not going to change your mind...I really don't even want to....and you're really not going to change mine....really.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to AquaticSub)

Post #: 28

RE: Remembering safewords - 7/2/2007 11:44:51 PM

AquaticSub

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin
You took that entirely the wrong way. And no...there were no physical means employed. I know it may sound amazing but I simply communicated what was wrong.

Aquatic, I believe you and I simply have to agree to disagree on this one. You are happy with how you do it and it's working for you...that's cool. I'm real happy with how I do it...so really, I don't see an issue that you and I have to keep trying to rehash. I'm really not going to change your mind...I really don't even want to....and you're really not going to change mine....really.

Erin, truly the only reason I keep bringing it up is because I have yet to see a reasonable alternative to a safeword during a force play scene where the words "no", "stop" and the phrases "I'm serious, stop", "this hurts" and so on mean "I want more". I respect your viewpoint that you don't like them and if you want to drop it that's fine. I guess I'm just curious because I personally couldn't live without those scenes and I don't see a better method.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 29

RE: Remembering safewords - 7/2/2007 11:56:15 PM

mistoferin

Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline

I've given many alternatives on these threads, I am sorry that you have not found any of them to be reasonable. I don't do the classic sexy rape play scenes as you describe yours to be....but I do do very heavy force play scenes that are knock down drag out somebody is probably gonna get hurt...and I have still not had a problem stopping one with simple communication without having to fall upon the use of a prescripted code word. I don't know why it seems to bother you so much that I do it differently than you or that I present a different way. Does my doing so change the way you do things? I think probably not. As I said, I've been doing things in the way they work for me for about 29 years now...and you're not going to change my mind...really.

< Message edited by mistoferin -- 7/3/2007 12:02:26 AM >

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to AquaticSub)

Post #: 30

RE: Remembering safewords - 7/2/2007 11:59:41 PM

AquaticSub

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

I've given many alternatives on these threads, I am sorry that you have not found any of them to be reasonable. I don't do the classic sexy rape play scenes as you describe yours to be....but I do do very heavy force play scenes that are knock down drag out somebody is probably gonna get hurt...and I have still not had a problem stopping one with simple communication with having to fall upon the use of a prescripted code word. I don't know why it seems to bother you so much that I do it differently than you or that I present a different way. Does my doing so change the way you do things? I think probably not. As I said, I've been doing things in the way they work for me for about 29 years now...and you're not going to change my mind...really.

I musta missed 'em. Sorry I asked for clarification.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 31

RE: Remembering safewords - 7/3/2007 1:08:07 AM

LadyHeart

Posts: 561
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline

I see a common theme here - that Dommes working with males seem to experience a different dynamic than male Doms and female subs. I don't think it's very helpful comparing apples with oranges - or Mars with Venus. Perhaps recognising that there are differences would be a better starting point that simply arguing about it
:))
LH

_____________________________

"BDSM is not an excuse for bad manners."

(in reply to AquaticSub)

Post #: 32

RE: Remembering safewords - 7/3/2007 1:55:29 AM

becca333

Posts: 1050
Joined: 4/11/2006
Status: offline

I think any Dom/me who's thoughtful and careful, and who explains to the sub how they operate and the reasons for what they're going to do, is doing a great job. However it's structured, it comes down to whether the Dom/me is focussed on the safety of the sub. From a sub's point of view that's very important.

(in reply to LadyHeart)

Post #: 33

RE: Remembering safewords - 7/3/2007 3:05:21 AM

Aileen68

Posts: 6091
Joined: 8/2/2005
Status: offline

I have never used a safe word. I don't even have a safe word. I've played with doms on the first meet and have never had a problem talking with them and telling them where I was mentally and how I was doing. It's a personal choice and one I feel comfortable with. For me, strictly from a mental standpoint, safewords give me too much control and that becomes a huge turnoff. But then again, one of my biggest thrills is not having any control so purposely having no safeword plays right into that.

(in reply to becca333)

Post #: 34

RE: Remembering safewords - 7/3/2007 3:26:18 AM

Areflectionofyou

Posts: 258
Joined: 4/4/2006
Status: offline

Ive been in the lifestyle active for 16 years and have Never, and i mean never used a safeword. When you are in a trusting relationship, or in the hands of someone you trust, they should know body actions and be checking reguarly on the person they are topping in a scene. i go so deep while playing a safeword would be a rediculous thing for me , because i wouldn't know to use it. For me its as simple as asking me to squeeze there hand during a check. Slaverosebeauty don't generalize its not becoming . A safeword for me would cause harm , when all they need to do is check on me .

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaverosebeauty
People who don't use them are just asking for trouble, even LA, who I know will stick her head in here sometime will say she doesn't use them, yet, on another thread LA and a few other people talked using a 'treauge' (sp?) type system like what they use in the hospital, same freakin thing as safewords, just with numbers.

I dunno, I'm going on nine years, I think trouble would have found me by now...

It's triage.

And the fact that you don't see the difference between "orange" in your life and "ankle" is your own loss really.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 35

RE: Remembering safewords - 7/3/2007 3:37:21 AM

MissOchistic

Posts: 315
Joined: 4/30/2007
Status: offline

I would think calling out totally random words that came to mind would work. "Oklahoma" might be the word, but if you call out "Banana! Creme pie! Billy Bunklin! Houdini! Crabs! Diet coke! Orange!" I think they'd get the point....as well as "Safeword!"

_____________________________

"The amount i care for Thee
is more than two, but less than three."

"Submission is a potlatch."

(in reply to AquaticSub)

Post #: 36

RE: Remembering safewords - 7/3/2007 4:45:31 AM

subitodolce

Posts: 39
Joined: 6/20/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

Yes, they are a tool....but in my opinion they are an inferior tool. I have tools that I feel are much more suited to the task at hand. But you already know that...my stance on safewords is no secret around here. It hasn't changed in a whole lotta years, don't see much chance of it changing today. If people want to use them, that's their choice...I choose not to and I don't hesitate to explain the reasons behind that choice.

Yes you have. However, I still remain unconvinced that having another safety tool is ever a bad thing. I don't think it's possible to have too many safety procautions and frankly, this is a risky thing we do. People get hurt. It sucks but it's true. And since I like being able to say "no, stop" without him actually stopping during a scene... *Shrugs* I don't see any way to get around using a word to mean stop that isn't actually... you know... stop.

I agree with AquaticSub. There is never any harm in having a safety measure in place. While I trust my Sir with my life, he is still human. He fears that he will hurt me more than I fear that he will hurt me, and he is the one who is insistant on having two safewords. "Peanut Butter" is my verbal safeword (because seriously, if somebody cries out "peanut butter!" during play, it's enough to make you pause, blink, and be momentarily confused), and snapping is my non-verbal.

Have I ever had to use them? Not yet. But it gives both myself and my Sir the comfort that if something should ever go awry, I have a way of communicating my discomfort or need for play to stop.

Being safe is never a bad thing.

(in reply to AquaticSub)

Post #: 37

RE: Remembering safewords - 7/3/2007 5:51:50 AM

RCdc

Posts: 8674
Status: offline

If your Master needs a safeword, then ou use one. But for those of us that don't use safewords as a word then why is that 'asking for trouble'?

When erin talks of not using a safeword, she isn't saying that people who use safewords are wrong, she is saying that verbal communication doesn't work as effectively for her as non verbal. Yet those of us that do not use them are being told we are.

When I say I don't use a safeword it is because I don't. If I say I do not use a safeflag, I do not. However, that doesn;t mean I do not use a tool to signal that I might be in a bad place, or going to far - I do. It is me. My body is the equivilent to a safeword. Every movement or non movement. Every sound and non sound. Everything about me and what is going on around in the room at that moment - INCLUDING Darcy, is the 'safeword'. For those people using safewords only and not relying on more than just safewords are the ones putting lives in serious danger. If you want to use them, that is fine for you. But for me, the fact that my partner can see me falling, or knows when to stop instead of relying on some complicated system of colours - which you may need a chart for above the bed or play area - which I may or may not be able to verbalise depending on how I am dropping or high - is far more important.

I trust Darcy. I wouldnt play with him if I didn't believe he was capable to read me and my body. Visa versa. It isn;t just about trust however, it is about knowing that if something did go wrong, that he would know what to do and do it. Safewords are exactly that. They make you feel safe. And sometimes that safety aspect can place a overwhelming nonchalance over a situation. Just because you carry a gun, doesn't mean you will have to use it, but it also doesn't mean your life is any safer either. It just means you carry a gun.
And it can go off at any time.

So please don't assume that those of us who do not use a word aren't safe, are ignorant, or stupid... it works for you - fine. But I really hope you don't become so wrapped up in you and your partners safewords, you start to ignore other external facts and forces as well.

Peace
the.dark.

< Message edited by Darcyandthedark -- 7/3/2007 5:55:37 AM >

_____________________________

RC&dc

love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to subitodolce)

Post #: 38

RE: Remembering safewords - 7/3/2007 6:10:31 AM

becca333

Posts: 1050
Joined: 4/11/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MissOchistic

I would think calling out totally random words that came to mind would work. "Oklahoma" might be the word, but if you call out "Banana! Creme pie! Billy Bunklin! Houdini! Crabs! Diet coke! Orange!" I think they'd get the point....as well as "Safeword!"

I've got this glorious mental image of someone in the middle of a really heavy scene starting to yell, "Tulips! Lighthouse! Plum jam! Crumpets! Bar stool!"

Maybe the Dom would just assume you have some weird kind of Tourettes?

(in reply to MissOchistic)

Post #: 39

RE: Remembering safewords - 7/3/2007 6:21:32 AM

pussinbootz

Posts: 40
Joined: 6/27/2007
Status: offline

I have been in that situation where I couldn't remember hte safe word, in fact I didn't even know what it was. That was when I was with someone else, and I didn't feel I had the worth to stop a scene.. that it was actually unimportant whether I wanted to safeword or not.

With MM it's different, but I strill struggle. Ours are OW and STOP, the former meaning back off and hte latter meaning stop everything. I have only used STOP once and he did. He held me, let me cry till I stopped and then mad me laugh. He has actually told me that he would find it hard to trust me if I didn't safeword when I needed to. I still find it hard to say STOP.. but OW comes fairly easilly.. and he backs off.

This isn't meant as a generalisation, or me speaking as an authority, but I wonder what the correlation between people who have been abused in some way and the need for a safeword.

Is it that the people who don't need one don't have buttons that are likley to be pushed in this sort of environment? I really don't know.. I could be waaaaaaaay off with this one.. but for me it is easy to find the raw wounds while playing as this is the environment that i was abused.

What do other people think?

Puss

_____________________________

In life I am his equal... in the bedroom, his collared sub.

(in reply to AquaticSub)

Post #: 40

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