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RE: Remembering safewords - 7/3/2007 6:32:46 AM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline 		This is actually why I'll ask Fox or any sub/slave I have what their safeword and slowword is.

Usually no need to use them (I'm with people whose limits match my own primarily) but should the need ever arise (stuff happens you can't control or predict) I want them to be aware of it.

In the beginning of a dynamic, during training, I will actually push different physical activities to their safeword as a way for me to learn how much they can take and to demonstrate that I will respect it.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to becca333)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Remembering safewords - 7/3/2007 6:33:35 AM   
Faramir


Posts: 1043
Joined: 2/12/2005
Status: offline 		My way is the best way.

No my way is the best way.

You are just asking for trouble--what I find works is best!

No, you are just ignorant, because what works for me, and I find comfortable, is best!
 
Look, I've been doing it my way for 390 years in the lifestyle and it's worked great.
 
Oh yea?  I know 5 people who didn't do what I do, just this one time, and they end up being fed into wood-chippers and boy were they sorry!

People like you know nothing, and I have something nasty to say about you I can pull out of my pocket!

Oh yea, you are so wrong and so stupid about what clearly works for me I can come right back with a jab at you!!

MY WAY IS BEST!

NO, MY WAY IS THE RIGHT WAY!

_____________________________

True masters, true subs and slaves, X many years in the lifestyle, Old Guard this and High Protocol that--it's like a convention of D&D nerds were allowed to have sex once, and they decided to make a religion out of it.

(in reply to pussinbootz)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Remembering safewords - 7/3/2007 6:39:55 AM   
becca333


Posts: 1050
Joined: 4/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Faramir

My way is the best way.

No my way is the best way.

You are just asking for trouble--what I find works is best!

No, you are just ignorant, because what works for me, and I find comfortable, is best!
 
Look, I've been doing it my way for 390 years in the lifestyle and it's worked great.
 
Oh yea?  I know 5 people who didn't do what I do, just this one time, and they end up being fed into wood-chippers and boy were they sorry!

People like you know nothing, and I have something nasty to say about you I can pull out of my pocket!

Oh yea, you are so wrong and so stupid about what clearly works for me I can come right back with a jab at you!!

MY WAY IS BEST!

NO, MY WAY IS THE RIGHT WAY!


You're brilliant!

I don't get the hostility between those who do and don't use safewords - why does it matter what anyone else chooses to do?  So long as whatever you choose works for you, that's great. 

(in reply to Faramir)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Remembering safewords - 7/3/2007 6:48:41 AM   
Faramir


Posts: 1043
Joined: 2/12/2005
Status: offline 		BILLY BUNKLIN!!  BILLY BUNKLIN!!!

_____________________________

True masters, true subs and slaves, X many years in the lifestyle, Old Guard this and High Protocol that--it's like a convention of D&D nerds were allowed to have sex once, and they decided to make a religion out of it.

(in reply to becca333)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Remembering safewords - 7/3/2007 7:05:27 AM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Faramir

Oh yea?  I know 5 people who didn't do what I do, just this one time, and they end up being fed into wood-chippers and boy were they sorry!


Wood-chipper play - the next generation in BDSM play....

(in reply to Faramir)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Remembering safewords - 7/3/2007 7:13:01 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

I will NOT play with anyone who says they don't use safewords, its just plain ignorant and unsafe.
 
You have such a compelling argument for your position that you need to refer to the contrary position as "ignorant and unsafe". Name calling and accusation is much more "ignorant" than taking the time to get to know a person well enough to trust them with your safety. However it does qualify you for political commentary.

To the OP, there are all levels of sub-space, and no two people are exactly the same in how they process sensation during play. If you are forgetting safe-words I'd say congratulations. You are letting yourself go completely. beth has a problem communicating anything during intense play, not necessarily associated with the pain or sensation aspect of a session. This past week she "spaced" right into the next day, and still 'null & void' at breakfast. I bet I could have chopped off a finger or toe or two and once she snapped out of it and noticed she would have asked; "what happened!??!" Appreciating that beth is not unique, I wonder how much trouble a person, as a dominant or submissive, can find themselves if safe-words are used as benchmarks for intensity levels.

I never understood how a person deep in space or simply enjoying a session can delegate one part of their brain to process the sensation and determine where they are in the green/yellow/orange/red scale of standard generally accepted safe-word practice. I'm not saying it can't be done, but I'd argue that process prevents and inhibits obtaining the very goal they seek. Does that make them "smart and safe"? If they find that label important, beyond my sensation processing point, I won't challenge them.

The attraction of safe-words is that they provide shortcuts. Safe-words allow quick casual play and allow the top and/or dominant to abdicate their responsibility for what occurs during play. Total control of the session is in the hands of the submissive/bottom who controls the scene with safe-words. I don't see how the point can be argued. Any one who uses safe-words says they expect the action to stop if the magic safe-word is spoken, regardless of top's head space or what the top is doing. Pragmatically the person who has the ability to stop the scene has the ultimate authority.

Someone else mentioned the basic communication skill of saying "ankle" if the ankle is hurting or in the wrong position. It works the same with any other body part, and that should suffice. Now if you want to argue that this is a rationalization or form of safe-word I won't argue. However in that case, every word of conversation between two people should be considered "safe-words". I'm suggesting that before playing with someone there should be thousands if not millions of safe-words exchanged between the people involved. Limited to three, green/yellow/red, limits the experience of all involved.

< Message edited by Mercnbeth -- 7/3/2007 7:24:05 AM >

(in reply to slaverosebeauty)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Remembering safewords - 7/3/2007 7:18:04 AM   
becca333


Posts: 1050
Joined: 4/11/2006
Status: offline 		This is all sounding really complicated.

And... wow, I'm in awe of anyone who can hit subspace so deeply that they're still zoned the next day.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Remembering safewords - 7/3/2007 7:28:18 AM   
Archer


Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		Gee isn't this so nice, a question is asked about application of safewords, and the post gets the inevitable drag off into the world of safewords good vs safewords bad.

Folks the person didn't ask for the debate about are they good or bad.
They specificly asked about how to deal with the fact that they get tougher to use/ remember as the play intensifies.



(in reply to becca333)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Remembering safewords - 7/3/2007 7:45:37 AM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark
When erin talks of not using a safeword, she isn't saying that people who use safewords are wrong, she is saying that verbal communication doesn't work as effectively for her as non verbal. 


dark, you were pretty close. To clarify, I am certainly not suggesting that one limit themselves only to non verbal cues, although non verbal cues are another valid means of communicating. What I am saying is that simple open and forthright communication is every bit, and in my opinion, more effective than the reliance of some prescripted code words. Of course, both methods only work up to the point that verbal communication becomes impossible. Beyond that moment there are no words that will work and the people involved had better be in touch and aware on a different level. Both methods are also only effective when you have made wise choices about the partner you are playing with.

Verbally communicating in an accurate manner is possible. With it I see no need to establish a code of unrelated and inaccurate words such as red, abracadabra or potato pancakes. I am not sure why suggesting the former leads to accusations of ignorance, insanity, recklessness or stupidity...but I have seen all of those and more. Honestly, it really gets a bit old hearing them.

I also agree with Mercnbeth in that I don't want my brain to have to take breaks on the path to assess where I'm "at" and then further have to occupy it with converting it into code. Barring something going horribly wrong...I'm in for the duration. If something should go horribly wrong and I am still aware enough to form words....the one's we use in everyday communication work just fine.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to RCdc)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Remembering safewords - 7/3/2007 7:53:15 AM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer
Folks the person didn't ask for the debate about are they good or bad.
They specificly asked about how to deal with the fact that they get tougher to use/ remember as the play intensifies.


Archer, you're right. To the OP, forgetting a safeword is a possibility when you are caught up in the actions of what is occurring. I have found though that I never forget that my ankles and knees are my ankles and knees, my back is my back, my heart is my heart, etc. If something goes wrong with any of my parts I automatically know what that part is called and can communicate to my partner that there is indeed a problem with that part.


_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to Archer)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Remembering safewords - 7/3/2007 7:55:47 AM   
becca333


Posts: 1050
Joined: 4/11/2006
Status: offline 		Leg cramp!  Leg cramp!  can be a bit of a passion-killer.

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Remembering safewords - 7/3/2007 8:03:46 AM   
Aileen68


Posts: 6091
Joined: 8/2/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: becca333

Leg cramp!  Leg cramp!  can be a bit of a passion-killer.


Not as much as screaming "Red!"  and all play stopping.
The impression that I'm getting, and I'm most likely completely wrong, is that those who rely on and put so much emphasis on safewords aren't talking to their partner all that much throughout the interaction.  They seem to be relying on those safe and warning track words only to communicate.  Maybe I'm strange in that if I'm with someone I'm communicating verbally and physically with them the entire time.  There are rarely any surprises in terms of suddenly finding myself in a situation that is spiraling out of control so fast that that I have to call out a safeword.

(in reply to becca333)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Remembering safewords - 7/3/2007 8:18:25 AM   
Archer


Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		You specificly don't have a need for maintiaining the "ambiance" of resistance that includes verbal statements of non consent.
Great have fun at it. I have no problem with folks using open plain speaking communications. However the fact that you don't have a requirement that might cause a confussion between in scene mode resistance/verbal non consent and actual removal of consent, does not mean that other folks don't have the requirement in their lives.


(in reply to becca333)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Remembering safewords - 7/3/2007 8:24:48 AM   
becca333


Posts: 1050
Joined: 4/11/2006
Status: offline 		I love being a able to squeal, yell OUCH, no, stop, and so on - and be free to do that knowing he won't stop.  That's why we've got the safeword, so I'm free to sink into the scene and let go.

He does monitor my condition, extremely well.  But knowing he's the sort of person who respects safewords was security for me when we started out together.

(in reply to Archer)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Remembering safewords - 7/3/2007 8:50:05 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		Actually I've found in my experience that, unless you're in a forceplay type situation, it's pretty easy to tell the difference between "Ow I don't like" sounds and "Ow somethings wrong" sounds.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to becca333)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Remembering safewords - 7/3/2007 8:56:55 AM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aileen68

quote:

ORIGINAL: becca333

Leg cramp! Leg cramp! can be a bit of a passion-killer.


Not as much as screaming "Red!" and all play stopping.
The impression that I'm getting, and I'm most likely completely wrong, is that those who rely on and put so much emphasis on safewords aren't talking to their partner all that much throughout the interaction. They seem to be relying on those safe and warning track words only to communicate. Maybe I'm strange in that if I'm with someone I'm communicating verbally and physically with them the entire time. There are rarely any surprises in terms of suddenly finding myself in a situation that is spiraling out of control so fast that that I have to call out a safeword.


Just because I have safewords and my slave has safeword DOES NOT mean we don't communicate.

I can't remember the last time he used one of his safe or slow words. It just isn't necessary the vast majority of time.

When he gets so far into a feeling though and something bad happens that means we should stop, he may not be in a headspace to say "stop" or "bad stuff happening" -- that can feel too much like something a good slave shouldn't do = complain. But we'd drilled enough with "yellow" and "red" for him to know unconsciously that it is just information related to immediate need and is not related at all to his submission or obedience.

I'm not saying this is how it is for anyone else but for us, as a slave, Fox is not allowed to say "no" to anything I want to do and often time "complaining" seems inappropriate (to him -- not to me frankly) so "red" or "yellow" is easier for him.

Being able to use safewords like we do takes time and practice; it is not an easy out.


_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to Aileen68)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Remembering safewords - 7/3/2007 9:27:40 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline 		I pretty much hoped what I posted did answer the question of whether peoples(ie my) head go poof when scening and safewords can be forgotten what it was.  When you don't have a safeword and you are the safeword, I don't have an ability to forget it, because it's already there constantly.  And if I space out that much(as I have), then my partner is aware and that is far more reassuring in my case, than a safeword.

Peace
the.dark.

< Message edited by Darcyandthedark -- 7/3/2007 9:29:12 AM >

_____________________________
RC&dc


love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to Archer)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Remembering safewords - 7/3/2007 9:38:29 AM   
Celeste43


Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
Status: offline 		I'm mostly gagged so safewords wouldn't work for me. If I'm not gagged and I haven't gone nonverbal it means the scene isn't working for me and he'll be told that.

Mainly I have safe gestures. But we've been together four years so he can tell the difference between my twisting one wrist slowly which means it's going numb or opening and closing both hands rapidly which tells him I have a problem and it's overwhelming me.

As far as the beginning when he couldn't read me very well? He would remove the gag and ask me what was happening.

(in reply to AquaticSub)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Remembering safewords - 7/3/2007 9:57:48 AM   
slaverosebeauty


Posts: 1941
Joined: 12/12/2004
From: Cali
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: becca333
The sub's job is whatever the Dom says it is. 


Your 'job' is to stay alive; at least thats what logic says. Even if you choose your partners carefully, things happen that are unexpected. Safewords are like having a knife or a first aid kit when you play, just another tool or level of saftey.
 
I trust MJ a LOT, after last night's conversation, I trust Him more NOW than I have. My job when I am with MJ, is to convey what is going on during a scene, safewords let Him know what is going on; I have friend who have been married for decades and they STILL use safewords.
 
Personally, I think it is very irresponsible to NOT use them, or at least have one or 2 avaliable. I live in the real world, where accidents happen and where even the most attentive partner can be so into a scene or playing that something happens.
 
I guess if you are single, don't have little ones or people who care and want you home safe, then NOT having a safeword is fine [still irresponsible and dangerious as far logic goes], but for those of us who do have little ones and people that want us home safe, safewords are SOP.
 
Those of you who refuse to have a safeword or who don't use them, think about this, would you drive without your seatbelt or have sex without protection.   Safewords are just like a seatbelt or a condom, just another tool or level of protection, they are there justincase. You pray you don't need them, but, to be safe, you use them.  

_____________________________

http://slaverosebeauty.livejournal.com/

"Friends live on in our hearts, regardless if they are here or not."

(in reply to becca333)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Remembering safewords - 7/3/2007 10:13:15 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

I live in the real world, where accidents happen and where even the most attentive partner can be so into a scene or playing that something happens.
Exactly how does a safe-word prevent an accident?

quote:

I think it is very irresponsible to NOT use them, or at least have one or 2 avaliable. I live in the real world, where accidents happen and where even the most attentive partner can be so into a scene or playing that something happens.

How would you return home safely to your "little ones" if while during a scene, your eyes rolled back in your head, but your dom continued on because, after all, you didn't use a safe word?

With apologies to Archer's good point about the OP; safe-words should come with the same disclaimer as the inflatable toys used in pools; "NOT INTENDED TO BE USED AS A LIFE SAVING DEVICE".

(in reply to slaverosebeauty)
Profile   Post #: 60
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