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RE: The "I'm Stronger Than You" Game - 7/6/2007 5:38:38 AM

sublimelysensual

Posts: 298
Joined: 7/25/2005
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I realize You asked for the Dominant perspective on this, but a couple of quick things came to mind. Personally speaking, I'm big on respect, and will respect someone until I'm given reason not to. Though You don't mention what age the subs are that You've had this experience with, I do think age comes into play somewhat. As a 23 yr old, I would venture you're probably speaking with women in the 20-30 age bracket. A lot of people that age just don't seem to have been brought up with things like manners, respectfulness, etc..at least to the degree that I'd like to see. There are exceptions, obviously You're one of them. When I first started posting, I had no idea of Your age from Your posts..I would have put You at 35-40, if someone had asked me to guess. That being said, there are also older people that lack manners, just doesn't seem to be quite so many.
There can be other reasons for the belligerence, insecurities, things of that nature. There are s-types who are still in that place of trying to accept that side of themselves as being okay and valid. They may be fighting it without truly realizing that's what they're doing. I think most s-types have that struggle at some point, I know I went through it, though I didn't express it in that way..I simply withdrew. I guess what You have to decide is whether You want to commit to figure out what's causing the problems and trying to help someone through them (which I have to say, personally speaking, if I'm having those types of issues with a person from the start, I would wonder what else was going to come out of the closet later on)...or whether Your time would be better spent on other things. Just my two cents, as always...

-a

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"To make oneself an object, to make oneself passive, is a very different thing from being a passive object." -Simone De Beauvoir -'The Second Sex'

(in reply to MadRabbit)

Post #: 21

RE: The "I'm Stronger Than You" Game - 7/6/2007 5:56:01 AM

Rover

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Joined: 6/28/2004
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Fast reply to no one in particular....

I think it bears mentioning that I find it equally unappealing if she were to seemingly submit to me during that first contact. I don't find value in submission given out of habit simply because I'm a Dominant, or given to a near stranger (and there's no one stranger than me).

It's either a matter of pretending to be someone that they're not, or she's being herself and we're not compatible. Either way, there's no harm in being incompatible... just move on.

John

_____________________________

"Man's mind stretched to a new idea never goes back to its original dimensions."

Sri da Avabhas

(in reply to sublimelysensual)

Post #: 22

RE: The "I'm Stronger Than You" Game - 7/6/2007 6:02:57 AM

MstrssPassion

Posts: 2444
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: West Palm Beach, FL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

I've met two or three potential partners who, in the initial first conversation, seemed to have made a point to state how strong and independent of a person they are and then proceeded to resist and argue with everything I had to say with no logical reason other than to turn the conversation into some childish battle of wills.

I've taken to calling this common expereince the "I'm going to show how strong I am to the big bad dominant" game.

Personally, its an instant turn off. I'm very polite and respectful to everyone, regardless of whatever self declared orientation. I have no interest in participating in this and consider it immature.

I have no issues with people who are fiesty, but rather have an issue with someone who is just downright beligerent and defiant as if they had something to prove to me (or that I somehow think less of them and need them to prove something to me)

Just curious if this is a shared experience for other dominants?

And if so how did you handle it?

I guess it is a maledom/femsub thing because most often the guys who contact me are (figuratively) already throwing themselves onto the floor & begging me to use them as I see fit.

This blatant display of weakness turns my stomach.

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MstrssPassion

(in reply to MadRabbit)

Post #: 23

RE: The "I'm Stronger Than You" Game - 7/6/2007 7:02:58 AM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover
I think it bears mentioning that I find it equally unappealing if she were to seemingly submit to me during that first contact. I don't find value in submission given out of habit simply because I'm a Dominant, or given to a near stranger (and there's no one stranger than me).

It's either a matter of pretending to be someone that they're not, or she's being herself and we're not compatible. Either way, there's no harm in being incompatible... just move on.

John

I think it's all rude, arrogant and insecure to presume any sort of serious relationship before it exists. This goes either way- someone who is so insecure about appearing weak that they have to throw down the gauntlet to any imagined captor who comes along as a way to "keep the wolves at bay" and someone who is so insecure about appearing "not sub enough" that they grovel to anyone.

On the other hand, I don't think it's "acting like a dom" as Roberto says. There's no such thing as "acting like a dom" other than saying you want the authority over another in a relationship. I think it's much more simply "too insecure to be comfortable and responsible for my own desires and choices so I'll put on a front about it" which any person of any orientation can do.

I also dislike when doms PRESUME submission is occuring. Getting a drink for someone isn't necessarily trying to submit to you, offering a chair to me isn't a sign that you're wanting to submit to me, and so on. Kinky people try and put meaning into EVERYTHING and make life a lot more complicated than it needs to be for them.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to Rover)

Post #: 24

RE: The "I'm Stronger Than You" Game - 7/6/2007 7:30:58 AM

Rover

Posts: 2634
Joined: 6/28/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

I also dislike when doms PRESUME submission is occuring. Getting a drink for someone isn't necessarily trying to submit to you, offering a chair to me isn't a sign that you're wanting to submit to me, and so on. Kinky people try and put meaning into EVERYTHING and make life a lot more complicated than it needs to be for them.

So when people (seriously) attribute the behavior of their children to characteristics of Dominance or submission, they might be reading what is not there? I'm shocked.

Great point, though such presumptions are not limited to Dominants. Too many people would interpret what is gentlemanly behavior (as you described) as "submission". It's impossible to observe an action without context, and draw conclusions about it. By way of example, you see someone getting a spanking. Is it punishment? Is it reward? Is it consensual? Is it abusive? The action itself tells you nothing about the motivations of the participants.

John

< Message edited by Rover -- 7/6/2007 7:31:48 AM >

_____________________________

"Man's mind stretched to a new idea never goes back to its original dimensions."

Sri da Avabhas

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 25

RE: The "I'm Stronger Than You" Game - 7/6/2007 7:41:19 AM

MasterFireMaam

Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
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Yes, I've run into this attitude. Something like, "I'll not submit to you unless you make me." I'm not playing that game. I lay out what I expect. It is then up to them to meet what I lay out...or not. It's not about a battle of the will...its about service. Either they want to serve or not. Overcoming their will is THEIR barrier, not mine.

Master Fire

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(in reply to MadRabbit)

Post #: 26

RE: The "I'm Stronger Than You" Game - 7/6/2007 7:49:40 AM

Rover

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Joined: 6/28/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterFireMaam

Overcoming their will is THEIR barrier, not mine.

Master Fire

That short sentence says volumes.

John

_____________________________

"Man's mind stretched to a new idea never goes back to its original dimensions."

Sri da Avabhas

(in reply to MasterFireMaam)

Post #: 27

RE: The "I'm Stronger Than You" Game - 7/6/2007 8:14:53 AM

sublizzie

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~ fast reply ~

I tend to be very submissive but I will, on a first meet depending on what is happening, explain that I can be very independent and assertive. It may come across as belligerence at first but the person's response to it is often how I determine if someone is dominant or if they are just looking for someone to have kinky sex with while their wife is at work. The responses are very different and it becomes VERY clear which camp the man is in. People who know me in real-time face-to-face ways know that I'm not going to make someone do a take-down-drag-out scene with me. I'm far too submissive for that. But there are times when a dominant will come across poorly and I'll need to use something to verify which kind of man he is. On rare occasions this is one of the tools I have used.

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"cooking is my kink"

Collared June 19, 2008
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(in reply to Rover)

Post #: 28

RE: The "I'm Stronger Than You" Game - 7/6/2007 9:21:54 AM

ocilla

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Joined: 6/12/2007
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I am not going to assume dominance over someone in our first encounters typically. Especially face to face. Determining our compability, likes, dislikes and chemistry is critical to whether we are going to be a good fit so establishing open honest communication and directness is really my main goal. And I am watching for contradictions more than anything. I want to try and get a grasp of their self knowledge and conviction. I like to see some problem solving ability, smarts, playfulness (different than bratty) and consistency. If one minute, a fella says I want a female led life and a little while later refers to their ex wife as the "toxic Bitch" I will then have to dig a little more and be wathcing carefully for more clear cut or defining statements. I will also make a point of calling them on it and letting them explain the finer lines of their thinking.

Likewise I resent it when a person uses resentment instead of communicating. I look for a person that knows and respects themselves enough to be able to know their limits and to express them. My having to read their mind leaves me feeling like they are being manipulative and I may very well know what they are thinking but it pisses me off enough that they will not clearly express themselves that I will cut them loose or torture them by not acknowledging that I know what they want until they speak it outloud.

As I like a bit of service - I do watch to see how attuned to the needs of those around them they are - folks with a service predeliction will exhibit a desire to serve in any situation and not just for a Domme - they are always seeking to make those around them as absolutely comfortable as possible. And yeah - I suppose a Dom may have good manners and might even have some service qualities - but maybe it would skew more to care taking quality and there is a definite vibe that is different.

< Message edited by ocilla -- 7/6/2007 9:32:41 AM >

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Ocilla

Nature is not a place to visit. It is home.
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It takes a kinky village...

(in reply to MagiksSlave)

Post #: 29

RE: The "I'm Stronger Than You" Game - 7/6/2007 9:26:51 AM

LuckyAlbatross

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Interesting, I've worked hard to make my partner LESS conscious about making others around him comfortable and MORE concious on making sure HE's having a good time for himself. Maybe the difference is that so much of his need to serve comes from insecurity and being raised as the "peacekeeper" of the family and I'm teaching him that he deserves to be happy and taken care of and shouldn't automatically need to sacrifice for others.

That would be funny if someone saw his actions as having less of a service predilection.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to ocilla)

Post #: 30

RE: The "I'm Stronger Than You" Game - 7/6/2007 9:57:55 AM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit
I've taken to calling this common experience the "I'm going to show how strong I am to the big bad dominant" game.
Just curious if this is a shared experience for other dominants?
And if so how did you handle it?

MR,
Maybe it's my sadistic nature, but I love running across these people and love to play with them. They aren't just in the realm of BDSM but they appear in all facets of life. The guy you meet at a business dinner and ask for the time, and responds with; "Well, according to my Rolex it's 4:20". Or the guy at the gym who sees you working out and needs to say to you; "I used to help Arnold train before he was governor".

Go to a club and play with a 3 foot single tail and you'll have some 'expert' wander by and tell you how they can flick dimes off the nipples of their sub with a 25 foot bull-whip - if they only had a sub. Shake their hand - offer congratulations and let them know they can select a prize from the 3rd row from the top as they leave the club. If nothing else, the confused look on their face will be amusing.

How can you not have fun talking with these folk? They are so insecure they have to pre-qualify every comment with a resume bullet point qualification. Similar to the resume though, the common denominator is that the qualification can't be verified.

I would not recommend seeking out these types, but when you run across one, don't let it bother you. Enjoy and be amused as their boosts disclose their lack of self confidence.

(in reply to MadRabbit)

Post #: 31

RE: The "I'm Stronger Than You" Game - 7/6/2007 10:29:43 AM

BRNaughtyAngel

Posts: 1821
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Interesting, I've worked hard to make my partner LESS conscious about making others around him comfortable and MORE concious on making sure HE's having a good time for himself. Maybe the difference is that so much of his need to serve comes from insecurity and being raised as the "peacekeeper" of the family and I'm teaching him that he deserves to be happy and taken care of and shouldn't automatically need to sacrifice for others.

That would be funny if someone saw his actions as having less of a service predilection.

When you're done working on him, can you come help me with that one!?!

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 32

RE: The "I'm Stronger Than You" Game - 7/6/2007 10:45:58 AM

ocilla

Posts: 1764
Joined: 6/12/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Interesting, I've worked hard to make my partner LESS conscious about making others around him comfortable and MORE concious on making sure HE's having a good time for himself. Maybe the difference is that so much of his need to serve comes from insecurity and being raised as the "peacekeeper" of the family and I'm teaching him that he deserves to be happy and taken care of and shouldn't automatically need to sacrifice for others.

That would be funny if someone saw his actions as having less of a service predilection.

I do not think that I would assume that yours did not have a service predilection - I would likely just give it more time and would assume that more comunication would be required to help add clarity. You know your comment about deserving to be taken care of and not auto-sacrificing for others is good food for thought and I am going to codge on it - comments from folks like you with more experience is why come here - so I appreciate your response. And I can see encouraging one to think of themself more as being critical and have even done this when with those who over sacrifice and wander into the resentment field I complained about earlier. And yet, I do know of folks who just love to provide service and care and also know how to take care of themselves. For some folks, service, I believe, is how they show caring and love and yet there is no lack of self esteem or self worth.

_____________________________

Ocilla

Nature is not a place to visit. It is home.
~ Gary Snyder

It takes a kinky village...

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 33

RE: The "I'm Stronger Than You" Game - 7/6/2007 10:56:43 AM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ocilla
For some folks, service, I believe, is how they show caring and love and yet there is no lack of self esteem or self worth.

Absolutely. And that's exactly what I'm going for with him. But it does require showing him that some of his actions he and others may consider "being helpful and giving good service" are really just his way of avioding the issue and feeding into his old roles and need to be curtailed and directed appropriately for the proper motivations.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to ocilla)

Post #: 34

RE: The "I'm Stronger Than You" Game - 7/6/2007 10:57:13 AM

SirDominic

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MR, are we talking about first "physical" conversation, i.e. meeting in person for the first time? I think you are, but don't want to assume.

I expect you already know this, but is almost always true that the more someone needs to prove "fill in the blank", the less "fill in the blank" they really have. Now that could be for many reasons, some already mentioned. They may think they need to come on strong so they don't look like a pushover; they may just be very nervous, or they could just be people with very little confidence, replacing it with bravado.

Since it is often hard to know at the first meeting which someone is, I do some digging. The first thing to remember is to NOT play their game. If they make beligerent statements, don't disagree. They are expecting you to react to their provocation. By not doing so, you really throw them off their game.

Instead, make an observation, like " I agree. Though I am curious if you meant that to sound as immature as it came across". Do that with the hint of a smile on your face. The more you can remain calm, and keep your sense of humor in face of this kind of attitude, the quicker you will find out if this is them being nervous, or if they really are confrontational by nature.

If you are calm, and funny, they will usually relax if it is the former. They will go ape shit if it is the latter, and you know you don't want anything to do with them.

At least, this is an approach that has worked for me, and not just in fetish relationships.

Namaste, Sir Dominic

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You teach best what you have lived.

(in reply to MadRabbit)

Post #: 35

RE: The "I'm Stronger Than You" Game - 7/6/2007 11:17:43 AM

slaveish

Posts: 1086
Joined: 2/19/2007
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Sir Dominic's post reminded me of something M (a former cop) taught me. Speak quietly when others speak loudly. In order to hear you, they have to ~listen~, which defuses the belligerent exchange.

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You only lose what you cling to. ~~Gautama Sidharta

If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other. ~~Mother Teresa

(in reply to SirDominic)

Post #: 36

RE: The "I'm Stronger Than You" Game - 7/6/2007 11:19:12 AM

sublizzie

Posts: 1252
Joined: 5/26/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SirDominic
Instead, make an observation, like " I agree. Though I am curious if you meant that to sound as immature as it came across". Do that with the hint of a smile on your face. The more you can remain calm, and keep your sense of humor in face of this kind of attitude, the quicker you will find out if this is them being nervous, or if they really are confrontational by nature.

If you are calm, and funny, they will usually relax if it is the former. They will go ape shit if it is the latter, and you know you don't want anything to do with them.

As a submissive who can be a wee bit confrontational to weed out men who are looking for affairs while their wives are at work, if someone agrees with me too much then I know they'll do anything just to get into bed with someone who will spread their legs. Someone who is agreeable and relaxed or will disagree again but is calm about it, I know is probably a Dominant and I can relax back into being my normal agreeable self. It's not completely fool-proof but you'd be amazed at how often it works.

Just my thoughts......

_____________________________

"cooking is my kink"

Collared June 19, 2008
(uncollared 12/21/09 with his death. RIP my Santa)

(in reply to SirDominic)

Post #: 37

RE: The "I'm Stronger Than You" Game - 7/6/2007 11:36:11 AM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BRNaughtyAngel
When you're done working on him, can you come help me with that one!?!

Certainly willing to help you out with things, but this is a tough nut to crack in people.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to BRNaughtyAngel)

Post #: 38

RE: The "I'm Stronger Than You" Game - 7/6/2007 12:47:01 PM

LotusSong

Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MissHarlet

oh I love that line ..... may I use it ?

My pleasure. You can also add, "when I want your opinion, I'll give it to you".

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Life Lesson #1

I'm not your type.
I'm not inflatable.

(in reply to MissHarlet)

Post #: 39

RE: The "I'm Stronger Than You" Game - 7/6/2007 2:02:11 PM

cjenny

Posts: 1736
Joined: 11/27/2006
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     I don't think I have ever stated verbally that I'm strong or independent. However when I first begin to know someone/anyone I try to present myself like that. It takes more than a cup of coffee to have me drop my guard with someone, so in that way it could be considered as test. It can also be a nervous habit with me, needing to show that I'm on solid ground when inside I have butterflies.
    Not that I would engage in an argument or have an attitude, just that I would try and appear cool & composed. It can be tiresome to have doms assume that I am ready to plop down at their feet. I talk alot *surprise* and feel people out that way, one person has told me that I'm intimidating when I do that but it isn't meant that way. Hmm although it could be a way to gauge their vocabulary and comfort with words.
    There were quite a few responses here that I thought were hitting salient points. Inhibitor, LA, Quivver & TigerNINTails in particular said things I am in strong agreement with.

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Post #: 40

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