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RE: Drug Legalization - 7/8/2007 7:54:53 PM   
thompsonx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: uwinceismile

thompsons.
regardless of what happen in the futute, your assertion that 70% of the money
used to pay for the 70% of the drug related detained folks in lock up now is misleading.
I am curious as to how you came to this conclusion?


if we legalized drugs tomorrow,, we will not have 70% less crime...
What part of 70% of the people incarcerated in the United States are in the slam on drug related charges did you fail to understand?  By drug related I mean:
Cultivation or manufacturing
Transportation
Distribution
Sales
Consumption
Burglary,robbery and murder to secure said drugs
Now if all drugs are legal none of the above will occur.  No one Burgles robs or murders for lettuce or tomatoes and those agricultural products require no more to grow than dope does. 
If all dope is legal no one would use crack or me th if they had access to coke.  Barbiturates will on the other hand be a self eliminating problem as they have an LD 50 and the losers who use them will simply disappear into the grave yards.
I am not in favor of exonerating and releasing those who have committed murder,robbery or burglary to support their habit.  I am in favor of exonerating and releasing growers distributors and users.

and asking if those guys werre assholes,,was still condescending. ive seen many of your post. you are better then that.
No I am not.  I am a rude and condescending asshole who has no tolerance for fools, whiners, bullies and bullshitters.  Oh yes I am  seldom wrong.  When I do manage to get both feet in my mouth at the same time I can always depend on others on these boards to loan me a crow bar to extricate them so I can apologize.
thompson



< Message edited by thompsonx -- 7/8/2007 8:17:22 PM >

(in reply to uwinceismile)
Profile   Post #: 181
RE: Drug Legalization - 7/8/2007 8:02:55 PM   
HaveRopeWillBind


Posts: 514
Joined: 7/15/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: HaveRopeWillBind

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

So what you are saying is we should allow the Government to keep wasting billions of dollars fighting a losing
battle against drugs in order to prevent them from wasting billions of dollars fighting a losing war against
something else?

Im not even sure how to respond to that.

Sinergy


Sinergy,
No I would take an entirely different tack in the war on drugs were it my choice. I would dry up the supply so that none were available. This would require some changes in US policy vis-a-vis foreign relations,
I thought that was what we were doing now. 
Not really, if we were there would be no supply, currently we just give that notion lip-service.

but so what? Most countries hate us anyway.
Just the ones we try to fuck over.
Haven't been out of the US lately have you?
 
I would also change policy regarding the jailing of drug users and only jail the suppliers. If you get all the suppliers locked up new ones will come along, but sooner or later the message will get through that dealing in drugs is not such a good idea after all.
Some one has been watching faux news.
Yes, you have.

Once the supply and the distribution network no longer exist the problem is essentially solved.
Sounds to me like all you want to do is build more prisons and hire more cops.  It has not worked yet so why do you think it will in the future?
I see less prisons needed if you only incarcerate suppliers and not users. Were you one of those unfortunate kids who got taught "New Math" in school?

Sure some will still do home-grown, but that would really be a rather small percentage.
I was under the impression that all the illicit meth labs were cottage industry?
True, but not for the makers, meth labs produce with intent to distribute, quite different from someone growing weed for their own use.



(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 182
RE: Drug Legalization - 7/8/2007 8:19:42 PM   
uwinceismile


Posts: 365
Joined: 5/29/2007
Status: offline 		i will have to take u at your own word thompson. thank you for clarification

(in reply to HaveRopeWillBind)
Profile   Post #: 183
RE: Drug Legalization - 7/8/2007 8:34:43 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: HaveRopeWillBind

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: HaveRopeWillBind



Sinergy,
No I would take an entirely different tack in the war on drugs were it my choice. I would dry up the supply so that none were available. This would require some changes in US policy vis-a-vis foreign relations,
I thought that was what we were doing now. 
Not really, if we were there would be no supply, currently we just give that notion lip-service.
How would you go about eradicating the supply?

but so what? Most countries hate us anyway.
Just the ones we try to fuck over.
Haven't been out of the US lately have you?
Not since yesterday...but what does international travel have to do with who does and who does not dislike U.S. policy?
 
I would also change policy regarding the jailing of drug users and only jail the suppliers. If you get all the suppliers locked up new ones will come along, but sooner or later the message will get through that dealing in drugs is not such a good idea after all.
Some one has been watching faux news.
Yes, you have.
Of course I have...a man my age needs humor in his life.

Once the supply and the distribution network no longer exist the problem is essentially solved.
Sounds to me like all you want to do is build more prisons and hire more cops.  It has not worked yet so why do you think it will in the future?
I see less prisons needed if you only incarcerate suppliers and not users. Were you one of those unfortunate kids who got taught "New Math" in school?
Math is math new or old. It did not work with prohibition.  It has not worked with the "drug" war.  So what is it about your "plan" that makes it different.  How do you go about getting all of the "drug pushers and producers.  Are you going to send the army around the world to arrest them...look how much trouble we had just arresting Noriega.  We are getting our asses handed to us in Iraq.  So would you draft every one under sixty in the U.S. to join in this "holy crusade" to rid the world of the scourge of drugs?

Sure some will still do home-grown, but that would really be a rather small percentage.
I was under the impression that all the illicit meth labs were cottage industry?
True, but not for the makers, meth labs produce with intent to distribute, quite different from someone growing weed for their own use.
Do you not read and comprehend English?  Most of the illicit meth in this country is cooked in someones garage.  Meth is dope....marijuana is dope....heroin is dope....cocaine is dope....barbituarit is dope. 




(in reply to HaveRopeWillBind)
Profile   Post #: 184
RE: Drug Legalization - 7/9/2007 1:11:30 PM   
caitlyn


Posts: 3473
Joined: 12/22/2004
Status: offline 		I have a compromise, cut to the chase solution.
 
Drugs = Legal
 
Drugs + Children = Death Penalty

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(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 185
RE: Drug Legalization - 7/9/2007 1:14:01 PM   
CrimsonMoan


Posts: 2652
Joined: 10/31/2006
From: Portland, Me via Las Vegas Nv
Status: offline 		yeah but unlike meth growing weed has never led to a house explosion nor does it produce toxic fumes in the making nor does it require to mix shit together you wouldn't consume in real life.

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(in reply to caitlyn)
Profile   Post #: 186
RE: Drug Legalization - 7/9/2007 2:25:32 PM   
Casie


Posts: 450
Joined: 1/5/2006
Status: offline
[/quote]

Sinergy,
No I would take an entirely different tack in the war on drugs were it my choice. I would dry up the supply so that none were available. This would require some changes in US policy vis-a-vis foreign relations,
What exacally are you gonna dry up? Do you plan on stoping the growth of the coco plant so people can no longer alter it and make cocaine? That would mean no chocolate. Are you gonna stop the production of cleaning agents? Looks like we will no longer be allowed to disinfect homes and hospitals I see a tidal wave of desease. Are you gonna stop making allergy medication? Drying up the supply is impossible more will just be made.

 
I would also change policy regarding the jailing of drug users and only jail the suppliers. If you get all the suppliers locked up new ones will come along, but sooner or later the message will get through that dealing in drugs is not such a good idea after all.
We lock up suppliers everyday as long as there is a demand there will be a supply. Furthermore as long as you can make a quick profit selling drugs ppl will take the risk

Once the supply and the distribution network no longer exist the problem is essentially solved.
impossible


Sure some will still do home-grown, but that would really be a rather small percentage.
Really I happen to know quite a bit of home growers. Most of which are wealthy business men or women who are active members in the communiy
[/quote]


(in reply to HaveRopeWillBind)
Profile   Post #: 187
RE: Drug Legalization - 7/9/2007 2:32:20 PM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CrimsonMoan

yeah but unlike meth growing weed has never led to a house explosion nor does it produce toxic fumes in the making nor does it require to mix shit together you wouldn't consume in real life.


Weeeeeelll... actually... have you seen how they produce Superbud?

(in reply to CrimsonMoan)
Profile   Post #: 188
RE: Drug Legalization - 7/9/2007 3:26:40 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

A person has an absolute right to do with their property as they wish.

If a person does not own their own self, then they are not free.

So, any FREE PERSON has an absolute right to do with their body, as they see fit.

Period.
Everyone who cannot, is by definition the Slave of the person who has the authority to tell them whey they are PERMITTED to do with their own self.

Up until about 1897, all drugs were legal in the USA.  Regulation happened in part- due to the silk trail in China. Those workers were doped up, and it was quite serious. Add to that quacky remedies- full of alcohol and codiene- elixers.

The sneaky thing is- President Nixon- implemented a classification of drugs.  class 1,2,3,4 ,5- depending on severity. early in the 1900s tons of drs were thrown in jail!!!!

Anyhow- the recent law alows the govt to quietly make a drug more controlled- ie -illegal.

This would be easier to swallow- but didnt we just get done with celebrex, vioxx fiasco? not to mention thalidimide in the 60s!!!!

The water supply has trace amounts of blood pressure pills in it today!

Add to the mix- science- which is politically funded or controlled. Bad science.   We a screwed!

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 189
RE: Drug Legalization - 7/9/2007 6:40:07 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

quote:

ORIGINAL: CrimsonMoan

yeah but unlike meth growing weed has never led to a house explosion nor does it produce toxic fumes in the making nor does it require to mix shit together you wouldn't consume in real life.


Weeeeeelll... actually... have you seen how they produce Superbud?


Alumbrado:
No I have not ...how is it done?
thompson

(in reply to Alumbrado)
Profile   Post #: 190
RE: Drug Legalization - 7/9/2007 6:47:30 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline 		Casie:
Coca and Cacao are two different plants.  The first is a bush and is what cocaine is made from.  The second is a tree and is what chocolate is made from.
thompson

(in reply to Casie)
Profile   Post #: 191
RE: Drug Legalization - 7/9/2007 6:50:48 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Casie

Sinergy,



Casie, 

I was not the one who made any of those points.

Sinergy

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(in reply to Casie)
Profile   Post #: 192
RE: Drug Legalization - 7/9/2007 7:01:29 PM   
thompsonx


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Joined: 10/1/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: HaveRopeWillBind

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

HaveRopeWillBind:
Please correct me if I have misunderstood you but it appears that you are saying that no matter how drunk a pilot is, without passing out ,he can still pilot an aircraft with the exception that most but not all could not transition from an IFR landing to a VFR landing.
thompson


Thompson,
Yes that is pretty much how it came out. I should say however that the results were likely skewed by the fact that all of the pilots in the study were highly experienced professionals. The results would be expectedly different using low time pilots or pilots who flew on an infrequent basis.


HaveRopeWillBind:
I would pay a nickle to watch anyone fly this airplane drunk.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHYXrqoS08o&mode=related&search=
thompson

(in reply to HaveRopeWillBind)
Profile   Post #: 193
RE: Drug Legalization - 7/9/2007 8:56:51 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: uwinceismile

is legalizing drugs a good idea to you? i tend to think its a bad idea. but my own history with drugs and alcohol bias me tremendously


How about going for de-criminalization?Jail time for drug use,possession?As bad an idea as prohibition was,and with similar downsides.(IMO) Addiction is a medical issue or at least should be.

Peace

(in reply to uwinceismile)
Profile   Post #: 194
RE: Drug Legalization - 7/9/2007 9:37:55 PM   
uwinceismile


Posts: 365
Joined: 5/29/2007
Status: offline 		owners,,
if u read thru, i have ben swayed a lil...i try to keep an open mind .
i have 21 yrs clean and sober,,my gut says no to drugs  ,,,but i try to see the big pic.
ive enjoyed most of this thread immensely, and come back and re read it often to re inforce why i was wavering my origional thoughts ;)
costa

(in reply to Owner59)
Profile   Post #: 195
RE: Drug Legalization - 7/10/2007 6:12:31 AM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

quote:

ORIGINAL: CrimsonMoan

yeah but unlike meth growing weed has never led to a house explosion nor does it produce toxic fumes in the making nor does it require to mix shit together you wouldn't consume in real life.


Weeeeeelll... actually... have you seen how they produce Superbud?


Alumbrado:
No I have not ...how is it done?
thompson


Let's just say that W.C. Fields' admonition about drinking the water goes double for hydroponics

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 196
RE: Drug Legalization - 7/10/2007 6:39:23 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

quote:

ORIGINAL: CrimsonMoan

yeah but unlike meth growing weed has never led to a house explosion nor does it produce toxic fumes in the making nor does it require to mix shit together you wouldn't consume in real life.


Weeeeeelll... actually... have you seen how they produce Superbud?


Alumbrado:
No I have not ...how is it done?
thompson


Let's just say that W.C. Fields' admonition about drinking the water goes double for hydroponics


Alumbrado:
No, lets don't. Lets be a bit more specific.  If you are implying that using fertilizer is somehow the same as cooking meth I would say you are on pretty shakey ground.
Hydroponic farming is a pretty well developed science but it is not even close to being in the same zip code with cooking meth.
Hydroponic farming is simply a method of gaining greater control over the factors contributing to growth not potency.  Potency is 100% a factor of the genetics of the seed stock.  If you have some specific information contrary to this please share it with us. 
I have always noticed in the past that your posts have usually been pretty well documented, please do not let us down on this one.
thompson

(in reply to Alumbrado)
Profile   Post #: 197
RE: Drug Legalization - 7/10/2007 6:46:35 AM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline 		Oh, don't make the mistake of thinking that I am implying anything...take credit for your own misconceptions, and stop attempting to foist them off on others by putting words in their mouth.

If you are truly too pedantic to get a simple piece of banter, I feel sorry for you.  if you are just showing your ass by pretending to not understand so that you can play keyboard commando, go find someone else to play.

ETA:

Of course if you really have been consuming hydroponic nutrients, that would explain a lot.

< Message edited by Alumbrado -- 7/10/2007 6:50:48 AM >

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 198
RE: Drug Legalization - 7/10/2007 7:09:09 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

Oh, don't make the mistake of thinking that I am implying anything...take credit for your own misconceptions, and stop attempting to foist them off on others by putting words in their mouth.

If you are truly too pedantic to get a simple piece of banter, I feel sorry for you.  if you are just showing your ass by pretending to not understand so that you can play keyboard commando, go find someone else to play.

ETA:

Of course if you really have been consuming hydroponic nutrients, that would explain a lot.


Alumbrado:
My garden is in the neighborhood of 10.000 sq. ft. about a third is hydro another third  is of the double dug French intensive sort and the remainder is container.  I constantly compare both quality and yields from each.  Now before mod 11 lands on my ass with both feet....none of it is pot or any other illicit substance.  It is a vegetable garden.
I admit I did mistake your banter for the implication that somehow hydroponic gardening was in some fashion related to the cooking of meth.  Thank you for disabusing me of that misconception.
thompson

(in reply to Alumbrado)
Profile   Post #: 199
RE: Drug Legalization - 7/10/2007 7:35:31 AM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline 		I am not sure why cooking meth is an issue, if it is decriminalized. Then the original ingredients can be used in a controled environment, where explosion are less likely to occur. The cost will plummet and there will be no real advantage to cokking it yourself. Sure there will be the occasional person that tries to cook it, and even sell it, but it will be no different than the antiquated moonshine stills that slowly faded away. Sure there are a few home brewers now, just as there will be some homegrowers of weed that want to try their hand at things. The same laws could apply, if they want to sell it to the public, they get a license, get inspected, comply with regulations and there you go.

Most of the home explosions are caused because an addict wants to turn their addiction into feeding it and making money at the same time. If that same addict could get it from an institution very cheaply, and as they went and got it each time, was given many different options, it would increase their chances of getting treated.

The bottom line is that almost every other addiction is treated as a health issue, why is it that drug addiction alone is treated as a criminal issue?


Orion

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(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 200
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