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RE: Drug Legalization - 7/8/2007 10:39:26 AM

ElectraGlide

Posts: 1246
Joined: 11/25/2005
From: Maryland
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thomsonx I did not direct my post at you. I was just next in line. I was giving an opinion of my own. I was not criticizing any body else's opinion. My opinion on jail time, is it could be good, for hard core users to get a wake up call. If my sister was in jail she mght be sober and sane, instead of a basket case drunken drug addict, one step away from a fatal overdose. I spent a few hours in a police cell 20 years ago for drunk driving, it woke me up, I started missed those keg parties that were out of walking distance.

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(in reply to thompsonx)

Post #: 161

RE: Drug Legalization - 7/8/2007 11:53:00 AM

OrionTheWolf

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Joined: 10/11/2006
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So you believe prison works as a wake up call? I take it this is just your opinion without looking at any data? Were you a drug addict that went to prison and then woke up? If you do not have the data, were not involved personally, then what are you basing your opinion on?

I provided some great links, a couple of which show the pro's and con's of drug legalization.

It seems people want decriminalization of drugs to be the perfect answer, when the solution we currently have is far from perfect. It seems our goal should be a solution that is better than our current one, then after a while try another one that is better than the current one, wash, rinse, repeat.

Orion

quote:

ORIGINAL: ElectraGlide

thomsonx I did not direct my post at you. I was just next in line. I was giving an opinion of my own. I was not criticizing any body else's opinion. My opinion on jail time, is it could be good, for hard core users to get a wake up call. If my sister was in jail she mght be sober and sane, instead of a basket case drunken drug addict, one step away from a fatal overdose. I spent a few hours in a police cell 20 years ago for drunk driving, it woke me up, I started missed those keg parties that were out of walking distance.

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When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

(in reply to ElectraGlide)

Post #: 162

RE: Drug Legalization - 7/8/2007 12:00:48 PM

farglebargle

Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline

I thought the Wake-Up Call was when you started sucking Cock for Coke?

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ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to OrionTheWolf)

Post #: 163

RE: Drug Legalization - 7/8/2007 12:03:04 PM

Griswold

Posts: 2739
Joined: 2/12/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: uwinceismile

is legalizing drugs a good idea to you? i tend to think its a bad idea. but my own history with drugs and alcohol bias me tremendously

If they could figure out how to make ecstasy so it didn't make cheez whiz of your brain, and Crown Royal so it didn't make me say incredibly stupid shit that I almost always regret later...I'd support this plan all the way.

(in reply to uwinceismile)

Post #: 164

RE: Drug Legalization - 7/8/2007 12:13:27 PM

ElectraGlide

Posts: 1246
Joined: 11/25/2005
From: Maryland
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I am not saying give them life in prison, give them something instead of probration, so they dont miss a beat, and get right back to the dope. Yes i did have a drug problem, I went cold turkey in 1989, my wakeup call was raising kids. It would not look too cute if i got arrested and put in the newspaper so all the other kids could tease them at school. The 50 year old jack asses that I still know that use drugs and stay drunk, chose to run away from their kids.

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(in reply to Griswold)

Post #: 165

RE: Drug Legalization - 7/8/2007 12:18:59 PM

ElectraGlide

Posts: 1246
Joined: 11/25/2005
From: Maryland
Status: offline

I hate this debate any way, do what you want, when it is all over and you are dead and buried, what the hell does it matter what you did or didn't do. I guess that is how some people see it, I will be buried having honor, that i did not subject my family to me being a embarrassment to them. When a career drug addict dies that abandoned his family his kids wont even show up for the funeral, I know i have seen it.

< Message edited by ElectraGlide -- 7/8/2007 12:20:31 PM >

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Post #: 166

RE: Drug Legalization - 7/8/2007 2:30:27 PM

OrionTheWolf

Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
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In both situations where I involved myself to help a female friend that is an addict, that was their wake up call.

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

I thought the Wake-Up Call was when you started sucking Cock for Coke?

_____________________________

When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

(in reply to farglebargle)

Post #: 167

RE: Drug Legalization - 7/8/2007 2:36:37 PM

OrionTheWolf

Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
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When pressed for facts, studies or solid examples, you exit stage left. I am glad you kicked it yourself, it is likely you did not have an addictive peronality, and were able to thus do it cold turkey. By and large this is not the experience of most recovering addicts. There is about a 3% clean and sover rate for most drug addicts, this includes those that go to jail instead of getting probation.

The current system sucks, the last person I helped had the choice to either try and kill herself or go to jail, so that she could get even mediocre treatement. Instead she moved to a state with better treatement programs, got married, has been sober long enough to now get the treatment for the psychological problems that started all of it. Many addicts are self medicating because of other psychological issues they have. Those posting would against decriminalization would know this if they cared enough to research it or follow some of the links provided. Instead their sanctimony will likely doom another generation to the punitive treatment we currently have, and feel all warm and honorable inside.

Orion

_____________________________

When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

(in reply to ElectraGlide)

Post #: 168

RE: Drug Legalization - 7/8/2007 3:34:47 PM

HaveRopeWillBind

Posts: 514
Joined: 7/15/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

So what you are saying is we should allow the Government to keep wasting billions of dollars fighting a losing
battle against drugs in order to prevent them from wasting billions of dollars fighting a losing war against
something else?

Im not even sure how to respond to that.

Sinergy

Sinergy,
No I would take an entirely different tack in the war on drugs were it my choice. I would dry up the supply so that none were available. This would require some changes in US policy vis-a-vis foreign relations, but so what? Most countries hate us anyway. I would also change policy regarding the jailing of drug users and only jail the suppliers. If you get all the suppliers locked up new ones will come along, but sooner or later the message will get through that dealing in drugs is not such a good idea after all. Once the supply and the distribution network no longer exist the problem is essentially solved. Sure some will still do home-grown, but that would really be a rather small percentage.

(in reply to Sinergy)

Post #: 169

RE: Drug Legalization - 7/8/2007 3:38:17 PM

HaveRopeWillBind

Posts: 514
Joined: 7/15/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

HaveRopeWillBind:
Please correct me if I have misunderstood you but it appears that you are saying that no matter how drunk a pilot is, without passing out ,he can still pilot an aircraft with the exception that most but not all could not transition from an IFR landing to a VFR landing.
thompson

Thompson,
Yes that is pretty much how it came out. I should say however that the results were likely skewed by the fact that all of the pilots in the study were highly experienced professionals. The results would be expectedly different using low time pilots or pilots who flew on an infrequent basis.

(in reply to thompsonx)

Post #: 170

RE: Drug Legalization - 7/8/2007 3:39:56 PM

HaveRopeWillBind

Posts: 514
Joined: 7/15/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

So THAT'S why the Auto-Land button is there!

Fargle,
Nah, the auto-Land button is for when the weather outside is so nasty it's just too scarey to look out the window.

(in reply to farglebargle)

Post #: 171

RE: Drug Legalization - 7/8/2007 5:18:31 PM

uwinceismile

Posts: 365
Joined: 5/29/2007
Status: offline

thompsons.
regardless of what happen in the futute, your assertion that 70% of the money
used to pay for the 70% of the drug related detained folks in lock up now is misleading.
if we legalized drugs tomorrow,, we will not have 70% less crime...
and asking if those guys werre assholes,,was still condescending. ive seen many of your post. you are better then that.

(in reply to thompsonx)

Post #: 172

RE: Drug Legalization - 7/8/2007 5:28:29 PM

uwinceismile

Posts: 365
Joined: 5/29/2007
Status: offline

i see much chat about rehabilitation efforts here as well.....
the numbers for success are not awe inspiring.
many places have great success, while many others show lil to no success. rehabs have become big bussiness, unfortunately,,,and everything is great in them, untill ur insurance runs out. as much as i hate to see govt programs being created.....i think it will take govt funding to tackle that issue. i recently celebrated 21 yrs clean and sober. and i still have my addictive personality... i was very fortunate as a young man to make that descision to go another route.
i would love to have "the answer"..... but i dont,,, some great debate here tho, if only we could keep it a lil more civil ;)

(in reply to HaveRopeWillBind)

Post #: 173

RE: Drug Legalization - 7/8/2007 5:33:17 PM

uwinceismile

Posts: 365
Joined: 5/29/2007
Status: offline

I thought the Wake-Up Call was when you started sucking Cock for Coke?

a prime example of civility ??

i wonder why some here believe that thier opinions are worth so much more then others?i mean honestly, if some of you knew as much as u believe you do, wouldnt you be busy off making the world a far better place for us all?
please remember, we are offering our opinions here,,, so give the other guy a lil respect, even if you dont agree with him/her.

(in reply to HaveRopeWillBind)

Post #: 174

RE: Drug Legalization - 7/8/2007 5:52:13 PM

chellekitty

Posts: 3923
Joined: 3/27/2005
Status: offline

my 2 cents...and a warning, i haven't read the whole thread... and i don't give a shit...i know that I, myself, cannot use any mood or mind altering substance with any amount of success...i also know that a person can't be helped until they are willing to be helped...when the pain gets great enough, assuming you don't die in the mean time, change happens...and i support going to a fully self supporting 12 step group, whichever you may choose...they don't depend on anyone else for money so...what the government does with the gazillion it saves on not housing drug offenders isn't going to help them one way or the other...and rehabs...before i was ready to change, were like a very expensive vacation...i didn't have to go anywhere, i could sleep, they would even bring me my meals...and i was not ready till I was ready...wow what a concept
so in conclusion, apply, rinse, repeat, follow with our handy dandy related conditioner, towel dry, style as usual...
chelle

(in reply to HaveRopeWillBind)

Post #: 175

RE: Drug Legalization - 7/8/2007 7:27:39 PM

thompsonx

Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: HaveRopeWillBind

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

HaveRopeWillBind:
Please correct me if I have misunderstood you but it appears that you are saying that no matter how drunk a pilot is, without passing out ,he can still pilot an aircraft with the exception that most but not all could not transition from an IFR landing to a VFR landing.
thompson

Thompson,
Yes that is pretty much how it came out. I should say however that the results were likely skewed by the fact that all of the pilots in the study were highly experienced professionals. The results would be expectedly different using low time pilots or pilots who flew on an infrequent basis.

HaveRopeWillBind:
I find it interesting that professional race car drivers and police officers who drive for a living cannot maneuver a car in two dimensions while drunk but pilots can maneuver an airplane in three dimensions while drunk. How about a link to this FAA study? I am calling bullshit on this one.
thompson

(in reply to HaveRopeWillBind)

Post #: 176

RE: Drug Legalization - 7/8/2007 7:35:37 PM

thompsonx

Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: HaveRopeWillBind

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

So what you are saying is we should allow the Government to keep wasting billions of dollars fighting a losing
battle against drugs in order to prevent them from wasting billions of dollars fighting a losing war against
something else?

Im not even sure how to respond to that.

Sinergy

Sinergy,
No I would take an entirely different tack in the war on drugs were it my choice. I would dry up the supply so that none were available. This would require some changes in US policy vis-a-vis foreign relations,
I thought that was what we were doing now.

but so what? Most countries hate us anyway.
Just the ones we try to fuck over.

I would also change policy regarding the jailing of drug users and only jail the suppliers. If you get all the suppliers locked up new ones will come along, but sooner or later the message will get through that dealing in drugs is not such a good idea after all.
Some one has been watching faux news.

Once the supply and the distribution network no longer exist the problem is essentially solved.
Sounds to me like all you want to do is build more prisons and hire more cops. It has not worked yet so why do you think it will in the future?

Sure some will still do home-grown, but that would really be a rather small percentage.
I was under the impression that all the illicit meth labs were cottage industry?

(in reply to HaveRopeWillBind)

Post #: 177

RE: Drug Legalization - 7/8/2007 7:39:05 PM

OrionTheWolf

Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline

Rehab in the US is different than other countries that have a higher success rate. I believe that 4 years ago, when helping a friend off Meth, the percentage of success was about 3%. You have to remember though, that to kick the addiction, requires alot more than just "rehab". Rehab as it is in the US, only addresses the immediate withdrawl and overcoming that. Studies have shown a large percentage of drug users, had other psychological issues they were not getting treatment for. the problem there is getting them to stay sover long enough to properly diagnose and address those issues. Rehab in the US does not come close to the time needed, as well as after care is very minimal.

When I say serious education and treatment, I do not mean anything close to what we currently have. Current rehab is made as low cost as possible, to get the maximum "immediate" effect, without as much emphasis on long term soberity.

Orion

quote:

ORIGINAL: uwinceismile

i see much chat about rehabilitation efforts here as well.....
the numbers for success are not awe inspiring.
many places have great success, while many others show lil to no success. rehabs have become big bussiness, unfortunately,,,and everything is great in them, untill ur insurance runs out. as much as i hate to see govt programs being created.....i think it will take govt funding to tackle that issue. i recently celebrated 21 yrs clean and sober. and i still have my addictive personality... i was very fortunate as a young man to make that descision to go another route.
i would love to have "the answer"..... but i dont,,, some great debate here tho, if only we could keep it a lil more civil ;)

_____________________________

When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

(in reply to uwinceismile)

Post #: 178

RE: Drug Legalization - 7/8/2007 7:40:27 PM

OrionTheWolf

Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline

While his statement may be blunt, it is pretty accurate for alot of addicts. Why sugar coat the words? Maybe the US needs their noses rubbed in shit to wake up and realize we are walking around in it.

Orion

quote:

ORIGINAL: uwinceismile

I thought the Wake-Up Call was when you started sucking Cock for Coke?

a prime example of civility ??

i wonder why some here believe that thier opinions are worth so much more then others?i mean honestly, if some of you knew as much as u believe you do, wouldnt you be busy off making the world a far better place for us all?
please remember, we are offering our opinions here,,, so give the other guy a lil respect, even if you dont agree with him/her.

_____________________________

When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

(in reply to uwinceismile)

Post #: 179

RE: Drug Legalization - 7/8/2007 7:54:28 PM

uwinceismile

Posts: 365
Joined: 5/29/2007
Status: offline

orion,
i whole heartadly agree on the state of the rehabs here in America...
ive been involved with many of them, and know folks allover the country involved in that field.

as far as being blunt, i dont mind so much...
i took that post as one here , telling another here, that the first person sucked cock for coke.
which i dont find worthy of anymore discussion really.
il assume i read it wrong, and leave it at that :)
i enjoy reading your post,
costa

(in reply to OrionTheWolf)

Post #: 180

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