RE: Drug Legalization

RE: Drug Legalization (Full Version)

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lighthearted -> RE: Drug Legalization (7/6/2007 8:12:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf Greetings lighthearted, If your brother had been able to go to a medical facility, during that time, and there was good treatment for addiction, would his chances to live have been increased? If the users have to go to the place that can offer treatment, then their odds of getting that treatment increase. Is it better for addicts of herion to lay in a squat or alley when they are using, or under the observation of trained medical personel? I can understand your pain, while it was not a brother, I have lost several friends to addiction. I have been able to help 1 in 5 of my friends stay clean, and she is nearing her 3 year mark. I literally had to use bondage to keep her in one place, because it took months to get her into a treatment facility. If you want to help people like your brother and my friends, then they need to get treatment not prison. Orion he died two weeks out of rehab, as a matter of fact. Orion, while I understand your intentions are good, as I said, I do not agree with any arguement for legalization, and won't be swayed. like many addicts, he had been in rehab several times. he had been clean during those two weeks up until his overdose. it was the mentality of "just this one time" that killed him...pretty common, from what I'm told. drug addiction is a complex problem, it's not just a matter of choosing to use or not use, choosing rehab or not choosing rehab, legal or illegal. but any action that enables the acquiring of drugs just makes drug addiction all the more likely.

farglebargle -> RE: Drug Legalization (7/6/2007 8:19:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: uwinceismile fargle, i agree to a point, but surely its inpracticle to believe that a person can do whatever they see fit with thier own property. for instance, in a case where what they want to do, would interefere with anothers rights. i could give a few examples, i i thinks its easy enuff to understand .... i look forward to ur response :) Freedom means the Freedom to accept the consequences of your choices. If your choices infringe upon another's Freedom, they will assert themselves, and you will have to deal with it.

Mercnbeth -> RE: Drug Legalization (7/6/2007 8:21:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sinergy p.s. The Netherlands are on the west coast of Europe, west of France and north of Belgium; they are not eastern european at all. To me, they are an example of how a socialized government is supposed to work. Sinergy, last this slave checked her travel map, west of France is just a smattering of islands and a HUGE pond...you'd have to go northeast of France to get to the Netherlands.[:)]

lighthearted -> RE: Drug Legalization (7/6/2007 8:22:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sinergy Cant recall any problems caused by somebody doing bong loads. Sinergy unless your a man attempting to father children; longterm use damages sperm. and that is soooo not sexy.

farglebargle -> RE: Drug Legalization (7/6/2007 8:23:41 PM)
quote: Now lets move to those underage who all of sudden get to see their parents in the morning sharing not only a pot of coffee, but some good ole coke or crank. They get to watch their parents go off to work in a drug induced haze; never mind that for all their lives they were told that drugs, driving, using machinery, etc…was a bad mix…that does not matter anymore…because DRUGS ARE NOW LEGAL. Drugs are Legal. That doesn't mean that "Operating with Ability Impaired" is....

farglebargle -> RE: Drug Legalization (7/6/2007 8:25:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lighthearted quote: ORIGINAL: Sinergy Cant recall any problems caused by somebody doing bong loads. Sinergy unless your a man attempting to father children; longterm use damages sperm. and that is soooo not sexy. This is, of course, Bullshit, as the rugrats I have running around will testify.

lighthearted -> RE: Drug Legalization (7/6/2007 8:29:40 PM)
no comment.

Sinergy -> RE: Drug Legalization (7/6/2007 8:33:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth quote: ORIGINAL: Sinergy p.s. The Netherlands are on the west coast of Europe, west of France and north of Belgium; they are not eastern european at all. To me, they are an example of how a socialized government is supposed to work. Sinergy, last this slave checked her travel map, west of France is just a smattering of islands and a HUGE pond...you'd have to go northeast of France to get to the Netherlands.[:)] This is why I always lose playing Risk. Sinergy

Sinergy -> RE: Drug Legalization (7/6/2007 8:37:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lighthearted quote: ORIGINAL: Sinergy Cant recall any problems caused by somebody doing bong loads. Sinergy unless your a man attempting to father children; longterm use damages sperm. and that is soooo not sexy. In this corner, we have the sorrow and horror of alcoholism and the destruction of lives, environment, property. In this corner, we have some stoner dude who cant add more people to the gene pool, listens to too much Credence Clearwater Revival and Jefferson Airplane, and makes his living glassing surfboards and saying "Dude" too frequently. How long do I have to think about which drug makes more sense to be legalized? This might take a while. (puts on his Thinking Cap) Sinergy

lighthearted -> RE: Drug Legalization (7/6/2007 8:44:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sinergy In this corner, we have the sorrow and horror of alcoholism and the destruction of lives, environment, property. In this corner, we have some stoner dude who cant add more people to the gene pool, listens to too much Credence Clearwater Revival and Jefferson Airplane, and makes his living glassing surfboards and saying "Dude" too frequently. How long do I have to think about which drug makes more sense to be legalized? This might take a while. (puts on his Thinking Cap) Sinergy well, having had both an alchoholic in the family and also a long-term pot-smoking family member, I would have to say that both can cause the destruction of lives, enviroment and property. and that requires no thinking cap on my part.

OrionTheWolf -> RE: Drug Legalization (7/6/2007 8:46:20 PM)
Greetings lighthearted, So your brother would have died regardless? The drugs being illegal did not keep him from using, so The War on Drugs is a failure. You can be "not swayed" all you like, and I am sure your reasons are emotional. I have had those same feelings. Rather than allow my loss to control irrational thought, I decided to do some research into it. I suggest you may want to do the same. If you are focused on reducing addicts, helping others recover, and bring down the criminals that did it, then you are going about it in the opposite direction. As to weed damaging sperm, yes it may but a metropolis' air pollution can have an even worse effect on your fertility. Do you know what the chance is of sperm reduction? Do you know the percentage of those that have smoked weed occasionally, that are sterile? Where is your information coming from? Is it coming from the government that has a vested interest in keeping drugs illegal. Look into the history of the Controlled Substance Act, look into why the domain was changed from being under the surgeon general to the atty general, look at how Nixon was beset by those in the peace movement at the time, look at other movements that had started and how he viewed them. The criminalization of drugs was a weapon against citizens involved in certain movements that the politically elite wanted removed as a thord in their side. Just do some digging and learn the facts, rather than read from a government sponsored list of all the evils. Orion

farglebargle -> RE: Drug Legalization (7/6/2007 8:54:32 PM)
"The criminalization of drugs was a weapon against citizens involved in certain movements that the politically elite wanted removed as a thord in their side." The War on Some Drugs is better referred to as Nixon's War on Hippies.

lighthearted -> RE: Drug Legalization (7/6/2007 9:10:44 PM)
hello Orion, the problem with any discussion with regard to politics, religion, drugs, etc is that the parties involved all have their respective opinions, and, whether they care to admit it or not, pretty much have no interest in really having their opinions swayed. I, at least, was forthright enough to state that from the start. just because my feelings are emotional doesn't mean they are irrational. find me more than one random person who has had a family member die from a drug overdose that is in favor of legalizing drugs and I will be happy to listen to what they have to say. I'm confused by your need to berate me. I don't feel the need to be paranoid of every piece of information that tells me something I don't want to hear and cry, it must be a government conspiracy! the real question here, is, why take a chance on the health of an unborn baby? because you haven't been convinced? put the bong down! it's easy, right, because pot is not addicting!

farglebargle -> RE: Drug Legalization (7/6/2007 9:17:58 PM)
But here's the problem... Drugs are illegal, and the fact that they are IS NOT SAVING ANYONE'S LIFE. The idea that prohibition somehow translates into an effective barrier to abuse is patently false, as direct experience shows. So why waste the resources which could be better used in HELPING PEOPLE WHO NEED HELP? Addiction is crippling and fatal, and often turned to because of a perceived lack of options and/or just mis-wired basic impulses ( and/or both, depending on the particular model of addiction to which one subscribes... ) The only thing prohibition does do effectively, is provide price supports for those selling, excuses to harass people for cops, and paying Corrections Officers ( and Construction and Management Companies ) ...

Alumbrado -> RE: Drug Legalization (7/6/2007 9:18:53 PM)
quote: If your choices infringe upon another's Freedom, they will assert themselves, and you will have to deal with it. At which point, you have just been coerced out of true freedom of choice.

lighthearted -> RE: Drug Legalization (7/6/2007 9:22:59 PM)
just because help is available doesn't mean it's GOING TO WORK. it also doesn't mean that the addict WILL AGREE TO PARTICIPATE. if it was simply a matter of available resources then THE RATE OF RELAPSE WOULD BE 0%. and, in the immortal words of my friend, Forrest Gump, that's all I have to say about that...

farglebargle -> RE: Drug Legalization (7/6/2007 9:23:40 PM)
Nope. Basic fact. YOU have only the Freedom YOU will directly defend. If someone infringes on YOUR freedom, YOU have to assert your rights. e.g.: Someone attempts to mug you. You shoot them and leave them in the street to die. You don't co-operate and then go whining for someone else to "Do Something".

slaveluci -> RE: Drug Legalization (7/6/2007 9:31:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth Marijuana will never be legalized. How can the government and their affiliate drug companies, allow the legalization of a plant that you can grow at home easily and inexpensively? The fact that it relieves 1/2 the symptoms of drugs we're currently spending Billions of dollars notwithstanding. Agreed. I would encourage everyone to read "The Emperor Wears No Clothes" by Jack Herer. Here's a link to his website: http://www.jackherer.com/ The book details the conspiracy against marijuana, the lies upon which it's criminalization was based, etc. Very informative, factual read............luci

farglebargle -> RE: Drug Legalization (7/6/2007 9:39:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lighthearted just because help is available doesn't mean it's GOING TO WORK. it also doesn't mean that the addict WILL AGREE TO PARTICIPATE. if it was simply a matter of available resources then THE RATE OF RELAPSE WOULD BE 0%. and, in the immortal words of my friend, Forrest Gump, that's all I have to say about that... It's not simply a matter of available resources, but we have to realize that every dollar put into Law Enforcement efforts to suppress the problem are just wasted, and redirect that towards better strategies. If A.A. has a high relapse rate, then maybe A.A. needs fine tuning, or alternative models, like Rational Recovery are better to promote? I dunno, but the money to do the research is available if we stop wasting it on the War on Some Drugs. Hell, BOOZE is legal, and addiction to that is more of an issue over all than ANY of the drugs considered unlawful. So right there is more proof that prohibition is a pointless waste of time, money, lives, and opportunity.

Aileen68 -> RE: Drug Legalization (7/6/2007 9:58:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SeeksOnlyOne i say legalize marijuana and outlaw alcohol, but no one ever listens to me...... No no no...a toke followed by a glass of wine or a beer is just gooood.

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