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ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Try it with Maker's Mark Bourbon...

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ORIGINAL: lighthearted

just because help is available doesn't mean it's GOING TO WORK.  it also doesn't mean that the addict WILL AGREE TO PARTICIPATE.  if it was simply a matter of available resources then THE RATE OF RELAPSE WOULD BE 0%. 

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ORIGINAL: lighthearted

hello Orion,

the problem with any discussion with regard to politics, religion, drugs, etc is that the parties involved all have their respective opinions, and, whether they care to admit it or not, pretty much have no interest in really having their opinions swayed.  I, at least, was forthright enough to state that from the start.

just because my feelings are emotional doesn't mean they are irrational.  find me more than one random person who has had a family member die from a drug overdose that is in favor of legalizing drugs and I will be happy to listen to what they have to say. 

I'm confused by your need to berate me.  I don't feel the need to be paranoid of every piece of information that tells me something I don't want to hear and cry, it must be a government conspiracy!  the real question here, is, why take a chance on the health of an unborn baby?  because you haven't been convinced?  put the bong down!  it's easy, right, because pot is not addicting! 

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Medicines/Drugs ARE legal....just not for everyone.  Mom & Dad are already taking mood altering substances and providing their kids with access to them as well...out of their prescription/OTC bottles/packages and from some things they find on the grocery store shelf.   kids that routinely help themselves to a few out of each of their parent's bottles and share with their friends call it "pharm-ing" and folks have been jacking their wee ones up on sugar, caffiene, Ritalin, etc. for quite a while now.

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  Bit puzzled why people think marijuana qualifies as a problem

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the problem with any discussion with regard to politics, religion, drugs, etc is that the parties involved all have their respective opinions, and, whether they care to admit it or not, pretty much have no interest in really having their opinions swayed.  I, at least, was forthright enough to state that from the start.

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ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

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ORIGINAL: lighthearted

just because help is available doesn't mean it's GOING TO WORK.  it also doesn't mean that the addict WILL AGREE TO PARTICIPATE.  if it was simply a matter of available resources then THE RATE OF RELAPSE WOULD BE 0%. 

        We cannot eradicate drugs, nor the need of people to alter their consciousness.  Addiction would be better dealt with without the criminal aspect.  Safe, reliable doses would go a long way to preventing overdoses.  Drugs not loaded with street impurities, or made with toxic substitutions would save a lot more lives.

         Harm reduction is the better option, until they decide to quit and mean it.

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ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

Greetings lighthearted,

Yeah I know alot of people make up their mind on something, and then close it. Rather than just give a blanket opinion, state some reasons (not emotions) that keeping it criminalized will make things better.

My Uncle died of a speed overdose, I have lost four very close friends to speed, heroin and cocaine, there are many people within the mindset that illicit drugs should be legal, that have had a family member die. I guess going to a sleazy hotel, breaking the door in, picking making my friend pack, taking her and locking her away until she could get treatment, you know during those withdrawl symptoms, and beating the shit out of her pimp, does not count for dealing personally with an addict. Sorry for your lose, but it is your choice to not even consider another view on it with reason and logic. You do not corner the market on emotion about this issue.

You call it berate, and I call it response in a discussion. If you do not wish to discuss, then stop posting remarks on the issue.

Not sure what you mean about the unborn child and bong hits. Sounds like another "what about the kids?" sound bite, rather than offer rational points against the issues.

Orion

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ORIGINAL: lighthearted

hello Orion,

the problem with any discussion with regard to politics, religion, drugs, etc is that the parties involved all have their respective opinions, and, whether they care to admit it or not, pretty much have no interest in really having their opinions swayed.  I, at least, was forthright enough to state that from the start.

just because my feelings are emotional doesn't mean they are irrational.  find me more than one random person who has had a family member die from a drug overdose that is in favor of legalizing drugs and I will be happy to listen to what they have to say. 

I'm confused by your need to berate me.  I don't feel the need to be paranoid of every piece of information that tells me something I don't want to hear and cry, it must be a government conspiracy!  the real question here, is, why take a chance on the health of an unborn baby?  because you haven't been convinced?  put the bong down!  it's easy, right, because pot is not addicting! 

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ORIGINAL: uwinceismile

is legalizing drugs a good idea to you? i tend to think its a bad idea. but my own history with drugs and alcohol bias me tremendously

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However, I disagree that legalization will lead to less drug related crimes.

Yes, it would remove the crimes that are related to those who commit them in search of their fix. But what about those crimes that happen AFTER a person has taken the drug? They are just as serious and fatal. How do you find a way to lower these crimes?

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Look into the history of the Controlled Substance Act, look into why the domain was changed from being under the surgeon general to the atty general, look at how Nixon was beset by those in the peace movement at the time, look at other movements that had started and how he viewed them. The criminalization of drugs was a weapon against citizens involved in certain movements that the politically elite wanted removed as a thord in their side. 

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  unless your a man attempting to father children; longterm use damages sperm.  and that is soooo not sexy.

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  Harm reduction is the better option,

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ORIGINAL: IrishMist
But what about those crimes that happen AFTER a person has taken the drug? They are just as serious and fatal. How do you find a way to lower these crimes?

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ORIGINAL: IrishMist

Hi Orion

Why do I believe that drug use will go up if it is legalized?

Simple. We all know that there is no way in hell that the government will EVER legalize the really ‘wanted’ drugs like heroine, cocaine, meth, LSD, etc.
No, WE all do not know that the government will ever legalize the really "wanted" drugs.
How do you know that the aforementioned drugs are the really "wanted" drugs?  Is it because your job depends on keeping drugs illegal?  Ask yourself a very simple question.  If all drugs were made legal tomorrow morning would you start using them?  If your answer is yes then you are a hypocrite.  If your answer is no then why would you expect anyone else to do so.
Those who do drugs have not stopped because they are illegal.  Those who do not do drugs will not start because they become legal.


Whether we want to believe it or not, it is not weed that is causing the drug problem in the world; it is these much harder to attain drugs.
If this is so then why are so many pot smokers in the slammer?  Heroin,coke and speed are no more difficult to obtain than weed.

In addition, you have to look at youngins. Since the pushers will no longer need to push the drugs on adults ( or what the government refers to as adults ), they will turn their attention to the underage groups ( grade school, middle school, high school ). These are the ones that can not ‘buy’ the newly legalized drugs because the government says they are too young.
Do you mean like alcohol and tobacco are illegal for the "youngins'".  Get a grip it is a parents job to raise their kids not the state.  This is such a lame arguement.


So, here we have adults; who are going to be buying these newly legalized drugs; and younginsargument who are going to want to test and try what their peers and parents are so happy about.
This is not borne out by the example in the Netherlands.

Legalization = drug explosion of massive porportions
Is this like the "domino theory" that took us to Viet Nam?  Where drugs have been legalized there has been no massive explosion of usage.

I have been around long enough behind the scenes to see nothing more than a disaster in the making if drugs of this kind are in any way legalized.
What precisely is your "behind the scenes" expertise?

Of course, this is just my own experience talking, coupled with my opinion.
Your "experience and opinion" seem to be at odds with reality.

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Why? What makes alcohol so special that it can have all the bad outcomes it has and still be legal?

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ORIGINAL: lighthearted

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ORIGINAL: Sinergy

Cant recall any problems caused by somebody doing bong loads. 

Sinergy

unless your a man attempting to father children; longterm use damages sperm.  and that is soooo not sexy.

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ORIGINAL: lighthearted

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ORIGINAL: Sinergy


In this corner, we have the sorrow and horror of alcoholism and the destruction of lives, environment, property.

In this corner, we have some stoner dude who cant add more people to the gene pool, listens to too much Credence Clearwater Revival and Jefferson Airplane, and makes his living glassing surfboards and saying "Dude" too frequently.

How long do I have to think about which drug makes more sense to be legalized?

This might take a while.  (puts on his Thinking Cap)

Sinergy

well, having had both an alchoholic in the family and also a long-term pot-smoking family member, I would have to say that both can cause the destruction of lives, enviroment and property.  and that requires no thinking cap on my part.