RE: Being loyal to your word

RE: Being loyal to your word (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Ask a Submissive

Message

KnightofMists -> RE: Being loyal to your word (7/8/2007 7:29:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: petal7 quote: ORIGINAL: akbarbarian . . .I am not keen on threats, manipulation, and guilt trips being used to control someone. Apparently she was given this big song and dance about "How would you feel if you were standing at your grandfather's grave and you knew you could have gone to his last birthday party but didn't". I'm with you on that one. I think that manipulation of that sort is disgusting. I was in a similar situation with my family. Now let me preface this with the fact that my situation is very different from this one and most that the general girl is in. My family used guilt tactics, intimidation and were downright abusive toward me (a precedence set from the time I was very young) to the point that it was a detriment to my emotional health. Master made a very tough decision when he put his foot down and said "No more!" I have to chuckle when some sees the statement ""How would you feel if you were standing at your grandfather's grave and you knew you could have gone to his last birthday party but didn't"." as Manipulation. Encase someone doesn't realize.. this is REAL possibility. Yes it could be manipulation .. but just because it is used to manipulate doesn't discount the fact. My Alandra visits her Grandparents just about every Sunday for the past 17 years. And as they get older, and particular since her Grandmother's health is slipping this past couple years.. it is even more important for her to see them. Not just from her prespective, but mine as well. I don't want her to feel the guilt of not seeing them. They are important to her before and they are important to her NOW.... It's a matter of me Respecting their place in her life. The importance they play in it. In fact, it's a matter of Respect for anyone in my girls life and their place in it. Maybe the old man is only 50 some and in great health and no biggie...but maybe it's his 65th birthday and well guess what they never celebrate his birthday in a big way but this one is a biggie. There is alot of reasons that is is unreasonable and even selfish to not allow the slave to go. This is not to say that His family is not important either. Both are important... and both relationships should be respected by both parties involved. But frankly.... the more this relationship gets played on the boards.. the more convinced I am that it's dysfunctional.. and Respect for each other is a rather rare commodity.

cjenny -> RE: Being loyal to your word (7/8/2007 7:42:13 AM)
ak, I only read the first few pages so I am probably repeating some posts. Forcing someone to chose between family and a relationship is destructive to the one being forced to choose. No one should be forced into that sort of decision! Not slave nor submissive nor vanilla. I think you accidently put her in an impossible place. I choose my husband over family. Now.. I am divorced & estranged from my family. I need them but because I had to avoid all gatherings to please ex-hubby I lost them. You say that there are strings that should be cut? That could be true, but remember cutting of family strings has reprecussions that last a lifetime. Family, even if they are unpleasant is still family. Never again will I let myself into a position where I actually have to choose between that. Even tho I'm shut off from my parents and sisters I keep hoping that they will take me back. I miss them. Jesus I miss them all so much. I have not had Christmas with family in over 20 years, that means I have no clue what kind of traditions they have now. Dunno what they eat for dinner. Dunno when they open presents. Dunno what if feels like to be surrounded by family anymore. Likely I would be miserable at those gatherings but I wish wish wish I could find out first hand. You need family at 26. You need family at 86. If you burn those bridges then um well, you no longer have family. That was just MY story and my perspective on it. I cried when I wrote this because I have tried so so damned hard to get back into my familys arms but it is too late.

Mercnbeth -> RE: Being loyal to your word (7/8/2007 8:10:31 AM)
barbarian, Two, three, four months in, or forty years, your relationship is doomed to fail. You and your slave don't have the same priorities and although you obviously communicate, you are doing so from distinct differing perspectives which ultimately will split you apart. From each perspective you are each right. It is very frustrating to be "right" and not have the other person accept that you are right and change their decision. Ultimately that frustration will cause your relationship to fail. The reason is you have not defined your relationship as a new entity which takes priority over everything else. Maybe that is not a commitment either or both of you are prepared to make, but your problems are caused by that deficiency. If instead of asking what is better or proper or correct for each of you as individuals, if you had the perspective and answered the question; "what is best for the relationship?" the answer may be easier. "Loyal to your word"? That seems like a trap. Its a argument tool which can be used against you as much as it can work for you. If you ever gave your "word" that her family issues and responsibilities come first, her decision to involve herself with her grandfather's birthday is in compliance with that "word". You just have contradictory "words" caused by a problem of prioritizing. You want this budding relationship to work, use this situation as a cross-road. Decide where in the hierarchy of life your relationship is when ranked with all other factors of life. Family, friends, children, work, school, career; where is the line drawn where a decision regarding your relationship takes second place? Have that discussion and future "loyalty" regarding words won't be an issue. Notice that I didn't say to prioritize this in comparison to yourself as "master". As a Master you serve the relationship as much, if not more so, than your slave/sub serves you. Are you ready to make that commitment? Apparently many aren't. Look at these random comments: You really think it is more important that she goes to a party being hosted by a person she never met, whom you don't know, instead of an elderly relative who she lived with? Seems to me that you don't have your priorities straight. If I were the Slave in question, I would ask why is master so determined to cut me off from my Family / Support network .. and tell him to shove his collar up his ass... You state, at one point, that she needs to cut the strings with her family, and that she is now an adult. Pardon me here while I laugh heartily! i also believe that family comes first, so if someone were to back me into a wall and make me choose them over my family, well, they'd lose... "They'd lose", "shove his collar up his ass..."; are relationships that we work so hard to find, that we spend countless hours pursuing and countless more talking about on threads as easy to find as sand on a beach and therefor easily disposed? Why then spend anytime at all pursuing them? I'll tell you what, if your partner tells you this going in - have an exit strategy. If the relationship will never be more valued than something else in another's live, it will never be more than casual. The fact that it is long lasting is only luck in the fact that the priority reason didn't occur...yet. There was and is a lot of shock when people in our collective families came to the realization that our relationship superseded theirs if a decision was made. No, they aren't hated, or removed from any consideration, but faced with the choice of your situation, we would be together; with anyone being effected negatively told that WE decided to do...whatever. The decision isn't about "word" or your party taken priority over her grandfathers. The decision is about your relationship. When you decide what serves it best, even if that decision is you go your separate ways, you've given the relationship priority. When each individual has the relationship as priority, the survival rate goes way up! We are a worshiping society. It seems to be a trend to worship and place higher above all one thing or another and in making it a priority excuse any action or decision. It's acceptable to have child worship, family worship, money worship. How many times is child worship the answer or excuse for some of the most ridiculous decisions we make in our lives? How often is; "well, what about the kids?" or "I can't do that because of the kids" used to rationalize a decision? Well, why not place the same priority and energy on "relationship worship"? For the religious among us, the commandment reads "Honor thy father and thy mother." Somehow that's gotten turned around and has become corrupted to; "Honor thy children." There is no abandonment implied. Don't use the paper argument and suggest I'm implying to throw children and/or family, career to the curb in consideration to a relationship. I'm only saying the decisions should be made with the relationship as the first and primary consideration. Every other thing in life gets prioritized behind it. If you need to make a statement to them as a demarcation point - tell them they are all tied for second place. More importantly act upon that statement. You'll piss off and perhaps lose some "friends" and/or "family" but it was their choice by dishonoring yours and disrespecting the priority of your relationship. One more point, I disagree with this comment: quote: This lifestyle sometimes presents us with difficult situations, choices, and the truth is, its much easier to fantasize about it than live it. This is only true if there is doubt in priority or if either of the people involved in the relationship don't have sufficient self-confidence or confidence in the relationship to believe that regardless of what life happens the relationship will continue to thrive. When you know that - the reality is much easier than fantasy. We never back down from our belief that together, this living fantasy we enjoy, is the easiest life and relationship we've ever had.

KnightofMists -> RE: Being loyal to your word (7/8/2007 8:22:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth The reason is you have not defined your relationship as a new entity which takes priority over everything else. Maybe that is not a commitment either or both of you are prepared to make, but your problems are caused by that deficiency. If instead of asking what is better or proper or correct for each of you as individuals, if you had the perspective and answered the question; "what is best for the relationship?" the answer may be easier. This was an excellent post..... and I quote what I think is the Centre piece of it. SSSo many Masters, Doms and other such idiots try to make the relationship all about them... Well.. to date.. I have never seen a relationship of this type do well over any significant time period. So often... the Masters, Doms and other such idiots make decisions under the guise of doing what's best for the relationship... however, one doesn't have to look very far or very deep and see that it is only to the benefit of one and not the relationship as a whole. That is not to say that indivdual decisions will not be for one or the other on the surface. However, when one looks deeper... one can start to appreciate it will be better for the relationship as a whole. Frankly, this situation never would of occurred if both... or even if the barbarian was looking to the relationship and not is own self.

petal7 -> RE: Being loyal to your word (7/8/2007 8:38:43 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BBBTBW AKBarbarian, I have read the WHOLE thread....and to be honest I think you come off a bit whiney. You didn't get what you wanted because of some self-imposed limitations. Yet, you want to blame your slave for it. You BOTH made some mistakes here and you should BOTH be punished for them. You for making her agree to something before you had the facts. And she for disobeying your directives. It is your responsibility for making the "M/s" dynamic work. In order for it to work properly, you have to have a handle first on yourself, then on it. It seems the former is lacking which will make the latter be impossible. I can't help but laugh. A Master had a dilemma in dealing with a situation, and came to the board for perspective. From what I've seen, he's been very respectful of people's varying opinions (and let's face it - they vary from one end of the spectrum to the other) and he's called whiney? I will not apply my dynamics to anyone else because I understand that people are different. But my Master gets what he wants, when he wants it, how he wants it. And if I don't obey, I expect that the discipline will be swift and appropriate. I am thrilled beyond words when he takes the time to redirect me back to focus on my service to him. It means that he cares enough about me and my personal growth to take time to help me. Unless I'm misunderstanding, she gave him facts about the party and his directives were based upon the information she gave. Then she was told the plans had changed (or were different than she'd been told) and out of that, a disregard of his directives arose. It seems to me he has a very good handle on himself -- to the point of recognizing when he needed to not make a hasty decision about punishment/discipline. I think it is honorable that the OP cares enough about his girl and their relationship that he is taking the time to not react on his own personal wishes but instead gather other points of view before making his decisions. I think it's mature of him to recognize that he needs other perspectives to make an objective decision. I also think it's courageous of him to put his situation up for public scrutiny. I would venture to say that if we all had others take a look at decisions we've made in various situations, we would fall short in others' eyes. I don't seen any indication that he is trying to cut her off from family by asking her to shorten her attendance at the event to accompany him to one of his family events. I don't know -- there are obviously nuances that we as forum posters will never know. I can just say that I don't see any bells and whistles going off in my head. It's serious enough to cause concern, certainly. But they are still young in the relationship and working through boundaries. I don't see an eminent collapse of M/s infrastructure either. What I am most curious about though is, why can't people contribute their own personal experiences in a constructive manner without attacking the person(s) involved anymore? Have we become a society that thrives only on putting down others to make us feel better about ourselves? How sad of a commentary on life is that? Oh well, in the immortal words of Randall from Clerks, "There's nothing more exhilarating than pointing out the shortcomings of others, is there?"

kyraofMists -> RE: Being loyal to your word (7/8/2007 8:47:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: petal7 Why can't people contribute their own personal experiences in a constructive manner without attacking the person(s) involved anymore? Have we become a society that thrives only on putting down others to make us feel better about ourselves? How sad of a commentary on life is that? Oh well, in the immortal words of Randall from Clerks, "There's nothing more exhilarating than pointing out the shortcomings of others, is there?" And yet in your post, what you are doing is pointing out the shortcomings as you see them of how other people are posting. I don't see how this is any different than the critical remarks you are making of other's posts. Knight's Kyra

KnightofMists -> RE: Being loyal to your word (7/8/2007 8:49:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kyraofMists And yet in your post, what you are doing is pointing out the shortcomings as you see them of how other people are posting. I don't see how this is any different than the critical remarks you are making of other's posts. Yup.... Pot meet Kettle... Kettle meet Pot

daddysliloneds -> RE: Being loyal to your word (7/8/2007 8:55:38 AM)
i believe a man/woman is only as good as their word, and i've never gone back on a promise. i also believe that family comes first, so if someone were to back me into a wall and make me choose them over my family, well, they'd lose... so, in your situation, i would have to put myself in the other persons shoes and try to view things in that light, rather than trying to pull the 'i'm master' card on them and pick and choose my battle from there.

petal7 -> RE: Being loyal to your word (7/8/2007 8:58:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kyraofMists quote: ORIGINAL: petal7 Why can't people contribute their own personal experiences in a constructive manner without attacking the person(s) involved anymore? Have we become a society that thrives only on putting down others to make us feel better about ourselves? How sad of a commentary on life is that? Oh well, in the immortal words of Randall from Clerks, "There's nothing more exhilarating than pointing out the shortcomings of others, is there?" And yet in your post, what you are doing is pointing out the shortcomings as you see them of how other people are posting. I don't see how this is any different than the critical remarks you are making of other's posts. Knight's Kyra I am sorry that my question is perceived as pointing out shortcomings of others. That's certainly not the way I intended it, but then again, I didn't expect that it wouldn't be judged, regardless of how delicately I attempted to word it. My goal was not to attack, but to ask people to step back and think of how they could respond to posts with their own experiences ... without making judgement calls. There are so many things we'll never know about situations in forum posts and since I have obviously been guilty of the same, the urging is toward myself as well. I will endeavor to use my life experiences as an example without applying judgements to others. Perhaps then, it will be a better tool for the OPs (not just this thread) to make their own comparisons which, to me, seems to make the forums a much more constructive resource. I apologize if my forum post came across as disrespectful.

subnaturale -> RE: Being loyal to your word (7/8/2007 9:11:39 AM)
After reading this ... i can only shake my head in wonderment.... First of all.... communication cannot be stressed enough.. this whole situation comes down to lack of communication ..and all parties involved are guilty. Secondly... compromise & planning... i wonder why the Master did not attend the Grandfathers birthday celebration and then they could have both gone onto the cousins party together??? Thirdly...i do not understand why such a personal matter has been brought into public forum. A mentor or close friend is needed to counsel on such sensitive matters. it seems that this option would bring about far too many responses and make things more confusing than they already are

angelic -> RE: Being loyal to your word (7/8/2007 9:24:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: akbarbarian "Just preface what you are going to say with the assurance that regardless of whatever the situation might be, you'll happily do what I decide" and that would keep me from feeling uneasy about making any decision about it. So she said that, . . . This is a M/s relationship that is approaching four months old. What do I do in such a situation? What would you think of it, as a Master, or as a slave? Personally, i would wonder why my Master would set me up in such a fashion. Way to make sure you got what you wanted... In my opinion you were not concerned with the relationship, you were concerned with having it your way. She did not break her word to you... they were not her words, they were yours that she just happened to mimick. (Out of a fear?) And now you are pissed off because she spent the time with her Grandfather. i think she should be pissed off at you for being manipulative. You (in my opinion) have come across as being very selfish and immature. Then you post a thread so that everyone can say "oh look how badly you were treated", you poor Master.. blah... There is only one person you are concerned about... yourself. And i will say it again... you set her up to fail. You failed her.

rollinonward05 -> RE: Being loyal to your word (7/8/2007 9:41:51 AM)
How old did you say you were? The way I read your posts you don't seem enough control of your own actions and abilities let alone being in control of a slaves. Am I wrong? I agree with others here. Your slave needs to be able to spend time with her aging grandfather and other family members at this party. As you obviously feel you need to spend time with this cousin you have just met. Compromise is just one of the back bones of what makes these kind of relationships work. Even Masters don't get their own way all the time. Just go to Ask a Master and I am sure many there will agree. rollin rollin

kyraofMists -> RE: Being loyal to your word (7/8/2007 10:27:52 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: petal7 I am sorry that my question is perceived as pointing out shortcomings of others. That's certainly not the way I intended it, but then again, I didn't expect that it wouldn't be judged, regardless of how delicately I attempted to word it. My goal was not to attack, but to ask people to step back and think of how they could respond to posts with their own experiences ... without making judgement calls. There are so many things we'll never know about situations in forum posts and since I have obviously been guilty of the same, the urging is toward myself as well. I will endeavor to use my life experiences as an example without applying judgements to others. Perhaps then, it will be a better tool for the OPs (not just this thread) to make their own comparisons which, to me, seems to make the forums a much more constructive resource. I apologize if my forum post came across as disrespectful. I do not think an apology is necessary, but it is accepted; I was only pointing out that it is so easy to do what we find fault in others for. Honstly, I see nothing wrong with making judgments. We make them all the time every day. In fact it is your judgment that the board would be a more constructive place if we posted our own experiences and let others glean from them what they can (I tend to take the same tact more often than not). However, it is other people's judgments that it is more constructive to give advice and feedback on what other people have written. In truth it is probably a healthy dose of both and many other tactics that make this board constructive for all. Many people have posted based on more than just this thread by the OP. There have been other threads and even his profile which in my judgment reflects a man who has unrealistic expectations and is setting his slave and relationship up for failure. He has an idea of submission based on a work of fiction and he is trying to pigeon hole his relationship into that work of fiction. I find that highly unrealistic. Instead of disavowing all judgments, I think it best to make the most educated judgment on all the information that we have at hand. Which is what many here have done... It is rare to know all of what is happening with a person even if we are in a relationship with them, so I think it is futile to withold judgment until we know everything. But this is just my own judgment. Just a different perspective to consider... Your way, which is most often my way and how I learn best, is not everyone else's way. Honestly, I am glad that it isn't. How boring to be in a world where we all behaved alike. Knight's Kyra

AquaticSub -> RE: Being loyal to your word (7/8/2007 10:43:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: akbarbarian I am in a difficult situation where I am trying to sort out what is reasonable to expect. Sometime over a week ago I told my slave my cousin, who I have only recently met, invited us to a big birthday party for her. Of course I told her we'd go. On the fourth of July, she told me she had news which she wanted to tell me but could spoil the mood of the day she was afraid. We were walking on the sand in our bare feet, and I felt pretty comfortable that we could talk things out so I told her "Just preface what you are going to say with the assurance that regardless of whatever the situation might be, you'll happily do what I decide" and that would keep me from feeling uneasy about making any decision about it. So she said that, and what she told me was that her grandfather was having a birthday on Saturday on the same day as my cousin's. I told her that as long as she could be back by evening that would be fine because my cousin't birthday wasn't till 8:00PM. Today, she went at noon to the birthday party only to find out that his party and present opening doesn't start until late evening running past when my cousin's party is and that her mom simply wanted her to arrive early to help clean. I told her that I want her to give her birthday wishes before the dinner, and head here in time to leave with me but she bluntly refused and seemed angry that I would even ask it though on the 4th she made her promise about it to me to obey happily whichever option I chose. She says her family has been telling her she'd better attend because her grandpa is old and it's unclear how many birthdays he has left. She used to live with her grandpa before moving in with me two months ago. Her family lives around an hour away. She also asks me not to be angry. This is a M/s relationship that is approaching four months old. What do I do in such a situation? What would you think of it, as a Master, or as a slave? She may have been angry that you valued a 4th of July party with a person you just met then her spending time with her Grandfather who may not be around much longer. I, personally, would feel the same way. But then again, Valyraen wouldn't insist I attend a party of someone he has just met rather then spend it when family I love and cherish. Yes she disobeyed and you are certainly within your rights to punish her. However, you may or may not want to consider why you cared more about her being there then where she was. You may not be in her life forever, after all. You might get sick of her. Her family will always be there and since your relatioship is a mere four months, I would say, and I am positive without even asking that Valyraen agrees, that her relationship with her family is more important.

AquaticSub -> RE: Being loyal to your word (7/8/2007 10:49:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: subnaturale Secondly... compromise & planning... i wonder why the Master did not attend the Grandfathers birthday celebration and then they could have both gone onto the cousins party together??? This is a wonderful point.

AquaticSub -> RE: Being loyal to your word (7/8/2007 11:18:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: akbarbarian Since when it being a Master about making the best decision for her? I thought it was about making the best decision for us as a Master/slave couple. It's not always easy following through with that. When she doesn't want to do somthing, or is in a tough spot, I'd love to be able to get out of that situation of having to decide what to do. If I allow her to get out of commitments to me, or to her role as a slave, time and time again, how does that even help her if being a slave is what she wants to be? It seems to me that it dishonors us both and what we say say we stand for as a couple. Are you kidding? You know part of being a good master is realizing that you don't always get to have your way because sometimes what is best for the relationship isn't you getting to have what you want. I'm currently visiting my family. Valyraen is at home by himself. He doesn't like being at home by himself. But if I can't have a good relationship with my family, I will grow to resent him. Our relationship would crumble and fail because of his selfishness. However, I am blessed to have an owner that realizes that his immediate happiness does not ensure his future happiness. If you want her to drop her family without concern, perhaps you should find yourself a slave who doesn't have a family, doesn't want relations with her family, and doesn't have friends.

mistoferin -> RE: Being loyal to your word (7/8/2007 11:29:03 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ShiftedJewel *And the driving thing? Erin, really.... I know you know better.* Ah Jewel, I'm so glad to see you back! [:D] But really, I still back my response to the post I responded to. I understand your issues with driving, your blind as a bat. The OP, in the post that I responded to, did not claim any insurmountable reasons (such as poor vision) as the reasons why he could not attend the function that he claimed meant so much to him. His reasons were that the area was unfamiliar and he didn't have access to a GPS, he's never had to deal with traffic before and night driving is more difficult. Well, I don't really like driving in Detroit where the average speed seems to be 85 and there seems to be some unwritten rule that you are not allowed to have more than 3 feet in between you and the car in front of you, quite honestly it scares the crap out of me....but I don't let that fear stop me from attending events in Detroit that I want to participate in. We all have a bit more trouble with night driving than daytime driving. It's because it's dark. So, do we sit in our homes or place limitations on ourselves that we have to be in before the sun sets? No, we pay more attention and we slow down. No GPS? What about MapQuest? That usually gives a pretty fair idea of how to get there...if you get turned around you can always stop and ask directions. I'm sorry, but his post might as well have said "Waa, waa, waa....I need someone to hold my hand because I'm scared". At least that is how my brain interpreted it. Well, it's fine to be scared or apprehensive about new situations, but if you choose to allow those fears to become an insurmountable roadblock that stands between you and something you claim is very important to you...that is a choice. My post was also not based upon this post alone, but the overall feeling I have gotten from several of the OP's recent posts.

RaynaSub -> RE: Being loyal to your word (7/8/2007 11:36:28 AM)
CJenny thank you for having the courage to write this. I am very close with my immediate family, and have had friends laugh at this. I live close to my family and refuse to move because of this. Anyone that would attempt to seperate me from my mother and my immediate family, is not someone I would want as a partner. I hope it is not really to late CJenny, you are a lovely and wonderful person. Maybe you need to make the first move, I think they still love you. Good luck.

imthatacheyouhav -> RE: Being loyal to your word (7/8/2007 11:49:03 AM)
If mutual respect is in a relationship....one would never ask another to CHOOSE between family and them. its a full on tragedy that there are those who have posted replies to this thread that feel its perfectly ok to be put in a situation where one would have to make that kind of a choice. and people wonder why theres such a dim view of WIIWD from the vanilla world....

Lockit -> RE: Being loyal to your word (7/8/2007 12:15:21 PM)
I find it interesting that no matter what anyone has said, the op continues to think punishment is required. The wisdom, whatever direction it went in... went in one ear and out the other. I hear... dom stuck on his opinion/feelings/take on life and lifestyle/wants/needs/desires/ego and on and on. I do not see an open mind to discusion or thoughts of others as he claims to desire other's input so that he can evaluate the situation and act in a realistic and responsible manner. I hear a dom wanting to cry foul and get support and when he didn't get it, he continued to go about things the same way he wanted and saw things from the begining. I see in the future a fifty year old, single dom looking for a daddy's girl.

Page: << < prev 5 6 [7] 8 9 next > >>

Collarchat.com © 2025

Terms of Service

0.078125