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RE: Punishment vs reward? - 7/8/2007 12:22:21 PM   
Level


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tricia

Sometimes, the reward is in the deed itself.  i love to clean, i clean my house every single day.  The reward is getting finished and enjoying it.
 
The same goes for alot of things i do for my Master.  The rewards aren't always tangible.  Honestly, i guess part of our dynamic is - if he doesn't say he is displeased then this means he is pleased.  And most of the time, that is good enough for me.  Someone who continually thanked me for things i feel i should be doing anyway would really make me uncomfortable.  Having 'duties' that are simply expected of you isn't necessarily a bad thing.  The reward is doing them and doing them well.
 
I spent the day with my Master yesterday.  Afterwards i went grocery shopping and treated myself to a box of ice cream sandwiches.  Later, in response to an email i sent him - he replied, "you....are a good girl.  You should treat yourself to two boxes of ice cream sandwiches."  That was my reward :)


*emphasis added*
 
Nicely said, tricia. Let me ask you this: if he did not reward you, whether ever, or just infrequently, would you be happy with the relationship?

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to tricia)
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RE: Punishment vs reward? - 7/8/2007 12:33:06 PM   
tricia


Posts: 231
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		Yes, i can honestly say i would be.   It's hard to explain and not have it come across as flowery bullshit, but, a look, a smile, brushing my hair off my forehead - i view all those tiniest of things as rewards.
 
And thank you, Level.

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RE: Punishment vs reward? - 7/8/2007 12:47:19 PM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline 		That's not flowery at all . I have a hunch he's well pleased with you, and I appreciate your answers.
 


_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to tricia)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Punishment vs reward? - 7/8/2007 12:57:52 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		I don't think my partner or I would be happy if we didn't get rewarded from eachother regularly, but I think that's because we both adore spoiling eachother and it's part of who we have always been together.  If one or both of us stopped doing that, it would be as bad as any inherent part of us making a sudden change- and that always causes turmoil in relationships.

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RE: Punishment vs reward? - 7/8/2007 1:04:11 PM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

I don't think my partner or I would be happy if we didn't get rewarded from eachother regularly, but I think that's because we both adore spoiling eachother and it's part of who we have always been together.  If one or both of us stopped doing that, it would be as bad as any inherent part of us making a sudden change- and that always causes turmoil in relationships.


I imagine most people are like that, LA. I just wanted to say that there are those that are wired to be fulfilled by the service, not by being rewarded. but hell, I guess you could make a point that just being allowed to serve, for those few, IS being rewarded...... oy vey..... , my aching noggin........

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Punishment vs reward? - 7/8/2007 1:23:26 PM   
Celeste43


Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
Status: offline 		We don't have a punishment dynamic. If there's a matter of such seriousness that I will not be persuaded, then hitting me won't change my mind. For anything else, I'm amenable.

I also don't respond well to negative reinforcement, I respond a lot better to positive. Are you more motivated if your boss screams at you for an hour for making a mistake or do you feel more desire to work harder if you are congratulated for your work in front of everyone?

But rewards tied directly to what I do would be weird for me, it would be like he was grading me on everything and that constant level of competition and anxiety is something I can't handle. Eventually instead of expecting to fail, I would deliberately fail just to get it over with. You may respond differently of course.

As far as taking me out to dinner, he does it when I've had long days and look too frazzled to cook. Plus for my birthday he tends to tell me to pick the best restaurant around I haven't been to and he takes me there. But he does nice things for me just because he loves me and likes to make me happy, the same way I do it for him. That's what you do when you love someone.

I'm allowed to ask for stuff, play or sexually speaking. Others aren't but he enjoys the sight of me squirming and wet and since I'm more likely to know what would turn me on at the moment I'm supposed to share that info with him.

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RE: Punishment vs reward? - 7/8/2007 1:30:20 PM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline 		I think that punishment has its place, a little trauma can be a good thing but it is a tool I try to use rarely.  It is common in fiction because people find the thought of it hot.

In real life I think that the difference between a submissive and a normal vanilla person is that a submissive is "fed" by having their dominant simply say "good girl" or their equivelent wheras a vanilla person looks at a relationship as I do X amount of pleasure/work for my partner and she does an equivent amount back.  "I rubbed your feet twice so I want a whole body massage" as opposed to a submissive/slave saying "I have served you all day, let me sit at your feet and listen to you tell me what a good slave I am"

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RE: Punishment vs reward? - 7/8/2007 1:55:13 PM   
lk70


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Celeste43
But he does nice things for me just because he loves me and likes to make me happy, the same way I do it for him. That's what you do when you love someone.


  You're the first person, I think, to mention love.  I was curious about that. 

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RE: Punishment vs reward? - 7/8/2007 2:04:14 PM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline 		Love is perhaps the most wonderful thing in the universe, but it isn't a must in BDSM, of course.
 
But it sure makes things better, IMO.

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to lk70)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Punishment vs reward? - 7/8/2007 6:05:42 PM   
DominaSmartass


Posts: 961
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: This month? Maryland
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quote:

ORIGINAL: lk70

  So let's pick a random example...let's say your sub/slave prepares a really nice dinner for you and friends or business associates.  Is there any gratitude or is it just that's what she's expected to do?  Any chance of her getting a nice dinner out as thanks?  Or maybe some sexual favor she enjoys?


This is not my own opinion, but what a lot of people will say...service is its own reward. If someone isn't getting what the need out of the relationship simply by providing the best service they possible can, then they are obviously not a "real" slave.

My opinion: my partner should always feel appreciated and I do little things to make sure that he doesn't feel like his efforts go un-noticed. That doesn't mean that I don't expect certain things from him "just because" and he certainly doesn't expect a "reward" each time he does something right but there's a happy medium.

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RE: Punishment vs reward? - 7/8/2007 6:28:53 PM   
MagiksSlave


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

quote:

ORIGINAL: MagiksSlave

I never understoon the emfasis(SP) put on punishment. It seems rather unfullfilling to only ever be in trouble when you do something wrong and punished yet when you do something good it is ignored with the reason that "Its what they are suposed to be doing."  the Truth is if this goes on long enough at least for me I start to feel unapreasiated and also when only the things I do wrong are pointed out I start feeling like a failure, there is a need to put as much if not more (actually there is a need to put more enfasis on it in my opinion) enfasis on the good things then the bad... Thin about it Domanent type people how would you feel if only the negative things you did where talked about and that you where only ever punished for doing bad and never rewarded for doing good or "what you are suposed to do"??

Magik's slave


Being appreciated is a wonderful thing, but ultimately, if one submits to another person, then fulfilling that commitment should be goal #1, shouldn't it? Whether they're praised or not?


Im not saying every little thing a slave does should get them a pat on the back, Im just saying when the punishments outway the rewards and the slave isnt missbehaving all that much but still the punishments are more frequent or the only thing that is where the problem comes (if 95% of the time a slave does as well and 5% of the time she doesnt but the 5 times out of 100 she does wrong she is punished and only 1 time out of the 95 times she did right or in some cases 0% of the time she did right it goes ignored) Im babbleing but Im thinking you get what I mean.


Magik's slave

_____________________________

If you’re going through hell keep on moving
don't slow down
if you’re scared dont show it
you might get out
before the devil even knows your there.


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RE: Punishment vs reward? - 7/8/2007 6:39:03 PM   
MadRabbit


Posts: 3460
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

I don't think my partner or I would be happy if we didn't get rewarded from eachother regularly, but I think that's because we both adore spoiling eachother and it's part of who we have always been together.  If one or both of us stopped doing that, it would be as bad as any inherent part of us making a sudden change- and that always causes turmoil in relationships.


I imagine most people are like that, LA. I just wanted to say that there are those that are wired to be fulfilled by the service, not by being rewarded. but hell, I guess you could make a point that just being allowed to serve, for those few, IS being rewarded...... oy vey..... , my aching noggin........


Speaking in general terms, I dont think service based slaves are rewarded by the service themselves, but by the appreciation of that service. If I ignored the service, payed no attention to it, offered no praise or appreciation and completely took it for granted, then they wont be receiving the fullfillment they get by serving me.

If dominants (not saying you Level, but other posters) want to narrate it that they dont owe anything to the slave for their service or submission, thats fine. Speaking from personal experience and my understanding of service, my opinion is that I am very much obligated to show appreciation and praise for the service being offered if I expect to keep a slave and ensure their own fulfillment.



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RE: Punishment vs reward? - 7/8/2007 6:59:46 PM   
MasterFireMaam


Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline 		In most of real time, long term successful  Ms relationships I know, the Master's disapproval is usually enough to encourage the slave to autocorrect. I know few who punish poor behavior simply because that gives power and energy to that behavior.

All that poor behavior, from either partner, does is limit the depth of the relationship.

Master Fire


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RE: Punishment vs reward? - 7/8/2007 7:15:49 PM   
lk70


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Joined: 6/28/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterFireMaam

In most of real time, long term successful  Ms relationships I know, the Master's disapproval is usually enough to encourage the slave to autocorrect. I know few who punish poor behavior simply because that gives power and energy to that behavior.

All that poor behavior, from either partner, does is limit the depth of the relationship.

Master Fire



I've come to realize that I've used the wrong term.  "Punishment" has a very specific meaning to some of you and I was really just referring to any sort of negative behavior, including the expression of disapproval.  So my question could be reworded.  Use of disapproval vs approval.   But either way, I'm getting what I was looking for.

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Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Punishment vs reward? - 7/8/2007 7:29:41 PM   
Level


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Joined: 3/3/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

I don't think my partner or I would be happy if we didn't get rewarded from eachother regularly, but I think that's because we both adore spoiling eachother and it's part of who we have always been together.  If one or both of us stopped doing that, it would be as bad as any inherent part of us making a sudden change- and that always causes turmoil in relationships.


I imagine most people are like that, LA. I just wanted to say that there are those that are wired to be fulfilled by the service, not by being rewarded. but hell, I guess you could make a point that just being allowed to serve, for those few, IS being rewarded...... oy vey..... , my aching noggin........


Speaking in general terms, I dont think service based slaves are rewarded by the service themselves, but by the appreciation of that service. If I ignored the service, payed no attention to it, offered no praise or appreciation and completely took it for granted, then they wont be receiving the fullfillment they get by serving me.

If dominants (not saying you Level, but other posters) want to narrate it that they dont owe anything to the slave for their service or submission, thats fine. Speaking from personal experience and my understanding of service, my opinion is that I am very much obligated to show appreciation and praise for the service being offered if I expect to keep a slave and ensure their own fulfillment.


Good evening, MadRabbit. I would guess that you'll meet with success with showing appreciation to a submissive; most human beings benefit from some sort of validation in their life.

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to MadRabbit)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Punishment vs reward? - 7/8/2007 7:31:28 PM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MagiksSlave

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

quote:

ORIGINAL: MagiksSlave

I never understoon the emfasis(SP) put on punishment. It seems rather unfullfilling to only ever be in trouble when you do something wrong and punished yet when you do something good it is ignored with the reason that "Its what they are suposed to be doing."  the Truth is if this goes on long enough at least for me I start to feel unapreasiated and also when only the things I do wrong are pointed out I start feeling like a failure, there is a need to put as much if not more (actually there is a need to put more enfasis on it in my opinion) enfasis on the good things then the bad... Thin about it Domanent type people how would you feel if only the negative things you did where talked about and that you where only ever punished for doing bad and never rewarded for doing good or "what you are suposed to do"??

Magik's slave


Being appreciated is a wonderful thing, but ultimately, if one submits to another person, then fulfilling that commitment should be goal #1, shouldn't it? Whether they're praised or not?


Im not saying every little thing a slave does should get them a pat on the back, Im just saying when the punishments outway the rewards and the slave isnt missbehaving all that much but still the punishments are more frequent or the only thing that is where the problem comes (if 95% of the time a slave does as well and 5% of the time she doesnt but the 5 times out of 100 she does wrong she is punished and only 1 time out of the 95 times she did right or in some cases 0% of the time she did right it goes ignored) Im babbleing but Im thinking you get what I mean.


Magik's slave


I do get what you mean . All criticism and correction, and no praise, would beat your spirit down, make you feel unappreciated, and make you doubt the relationship, if not yourself. Am I close?

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to MagiksSlave)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Punishment vs reward? - 7/8/2007 7:49:45 PM   
sublizzie


Posts: 1252
Joined: 5/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Level
I do get what you mean . All criticism and correction, and no praise, would beat your spirit down, make you feel unappreciated, and make you doubt the relationship, if not yourself. Am I close?


Sounds like my last boss........

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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Punishment vs reward? - 7/8/2007 7:51:10 PM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sublizzie

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level
I do get what you mean . All criticism and correction, and no praise, would beat your spirit down, make you feel unappreciated, and make you doubt the relationship, if not yourself. Am I close?


Sounds like my last boss........


 Never a good thing, that.

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to sublizzie)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Punishment vs reward? - 7/8/2007 7:54:34 PM   
favesclava


Posts: 1608
Joined: 2/15/2007
Status: offline 		the thought that i have displeased him even if he werent aware of it yet ,is enough to make me cry. i get rewards for being a good girl and that means i try very hard to be whats expected of me. far from perfect , but all Master expects is for me to try my hardest.
one time i did not, i stopped doing a daily chore, being too busy with other stuff. when i realized this i told Master of my failure. my punishment was swift painful and brief  due to the fact i brought it up. i have not been punished since then and had various rewards. spanking being one of them

(in reply to CutieMouse)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Punishment vs reward? - 7/8/2007 8:31:22 PM   
MzMia


Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline 		I certainly rather/prefer rewards to punishment.
I don't like bratty submissives or someone who wants to engage in a power struggle.
Also, as it has been stated, my punishment is just that:
punishment.
It is not something you ENJOY or like.


_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain


What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

(in reply to lk70)
Profile   Post #: 40
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