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RE: obedience regardless??? - 7/10/2007 2:09:55 PM   
slaveish


Posts: 1086
Joined: 2/19/2007
Status: offline 		Hey angelic. ~smiling~

I definitely voiced my opinion but the bottom line was ... I could choose to do it or I could choose to not do it.

If Master told me to carry a political sign (it wouldn't be a good "test" for me - I am nearly apolotical), if I chose to not do it he would consider it to be disobeying a direct order, thus I would be responsible for whatever action he deemed fit. His reaction might be to laugh and ruffle my hair, or he may choose something not as pleasant.

The key point for me in this thread is that I am far stronger than the ordered opposite action. Taking an opposite stance on any issue neither negates who I am nor what I believe in. It simply means I am able to get over myself, which can be a difficult task at times.

_____________________________

You only lose what you cling to. ~~Gautama Sidharta

If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other. ~~Mother Teresa

(in reply to angelic)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: obedience regardless??? - 7/10/2007 2:25:46 PM   
IvyMorgan


Posts: 729
Joined: 7/5/2007
From: Midlands, UK
Status: offline 		I've been trying to answer this question since it was asked.  And I still don't know for sure what my answer is.

I have no problem standing up and arguing for a position I don't agree with.  I've no problem with doing that well.  The number of times I've done that, I've lost count.  I argue better when I disagree with what I'm saying.

I have problems with doing certain things that, yes, some people would have a "moral" opposition to.  But those problems aren't because I think the act is morally wrong, for the most part it's cos I've done it before and doing it again would seriously trigger me.  So someone asking me to do that, even if it was just to "push my buttons" or as a "mindfuck", would be massivly disrespectful of me and my past.  I don't keep my past a secret, at all, so the "I didn't know" doesn't work as an excuse in my mind.

That doesn't mean I wouldn't do it.

Which I admit, is a pretty big problem.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: obedience regardless??? - 7/10/2007 3:15:35 PM   
angelic


Posts: 1807
Joined: 1/24/2005
Status: offline 		~waves~  Actually what you wrote before about his wanting you to debate made a lot of sense to me and i understood it better.   i still think i'd tell a Master (i truly cannot say for sure) to take a flying fuck if he asked me to do something i am politically against. 

_____________________________

~....and once you have tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you long to return.~ -- Leonardo de Vinci


(in reply to slaveish)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: obedience regardless??? - 7/10/2007 3:36:39 PM   
losttreasure


Posts: 875
Joined: 12/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sublizzie
How would this work in your particular relationship dynamic?


It would create a bit of a dilemma for me as it would be hard for me to reconcile what he is asking me to do when he has told me that he prefers that I not compromise my own moral principles.  My response would most likely be to agree to what he wishes but to also ask that he clarify how this situation differs from his prior stated preference.

_____________________________

Just because it isn't "all about me", doesn't make it "all about you".

(in reply to sublizzie)
Profile   Post #: 64
RE: obedience regardless??? - 7/10/2007 3:53:02 PM   
OsideGirl


Posts: 14441
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Or that they are trained to question and not simply accept.  Many masters will train their slaves to be sounding boards and proactive in questioning and adding additional information, at least in certain areas- so to NOT ask questions or question obedience would be disobeying and wrong for the slave to do.


When we came together and did our contract, one of the things he indicated was that if he got to something that I considered unethical or morally wrong, I was to state my case. He firmly believes that having faith involves sometimes questioning that faith rather than just blindly following.

_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: obedience regardless??? - 7/10/2007 6:25:44 PM   
slaveish


Posts: 1086
Joined: 2/19/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: angelic

~waves~  Actually what you wrote before about his wanting you to debate made a lot of sense to me and i understood it better.   i still think i'd tell a Master (i truly cannot say for sure) to take a flying fuck if he asked me to do something i am politically against. 


~chuckle~

Thinking about telling M to take a flying fuck, when not in complete jest with all the stars lined up properly during a meteor shower when he's dead asleep in the middle of winter under a blanket of snow on top of a thousand moon-shaped pieces of xanax, truly made my butt pucker. ~shiver~ I think it is ~you~ who is a better woman than I.

_____________________________

You only lose what you cling to. ~~Gautama Sidharta

If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other. ~~Mother Teresa

(in reply to angelic)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: obedience regardless??? - 7/10/2007 7:14:24 PM   
angelic


Posts: 1807
Joined: 1/24/2005
Status: offline 		that is priceless! slaveish you crack me up!  That truly made me laugh.  And now you know why i am unowned.

_____________________________

~....and once you have tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you long to return.~ -- Leonardo de Vinci


(in reply to slaveish)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: obedience regardless??? - 7/15/2007 3:55:08 AM   
IamonlyMEAT


Posts: 10
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveish

quote:

He simply wants you to ~do~ something. Period. That's all. Don't think about it, don't analyze it, just DO it.


That's terrible advice. And dangerous. Mindlessly following orders is what gets people killed. No one should be given that much power. What if he orders her to kill someone he doesn't like next?

(in reply to slaveish)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: obedience regardless??? - 7/15/2007 4:58:02 AM   
nephandi


Posts: 4470
Joined: 9/23/2005
From: Cold and magickal Norway in a town near Bergen!
Status: offline 		Hi

i think it would depend on the type of relationship one was having. In some relationship the slave is that, a slave, and he or she better well do anything their Master tells them to, no matter what they feel about it. Thier lives belongs to their owner. But there is nothing wrong to not have a BDSM relationship like that, to have one where the submissive party is owned yes, but whit the right to keep ome core elements of thsemself regardless. i dont think either is better than the other.

i know my Master would never do that, but if he told me to give up studying the occult. i would tell him no, it would not happen a that is to much a part of who i am.

i wish you all well.


_____________________________

Whatever you think you can do or believe you can do, begin it. Action has magic, grace and power in it.--Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

Futon torpedoes, make love not war!--Aswad


(in reply to IamonlyMEAT)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: obedience regardless??? - 7/15/2007 6:08:54 AM   
womanworshipper


Posts: 71
Joined: 3/27/2005
Status: offline 		i just would not get involved with anyone likely to do that. i once had a very controlling right-wing Lady interested in having me serve Her; We/we just were not compatible and so i had to politely explain and decline. i would have found the relationship oppressive.

(in reply to sublizzie)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: obedience regardless??? - 7/15/2007 6:25:45 AM   
kossack


Posts: 82
Joined: 8/5/2006
Status: offline 		Not only would I never do that, I doubt seriously I could be with someone that I disagreed with on a fundamental issue like thae.  In the last election, the man I surrendered to in the bedroom came and helped me with my GOTV work because he knew how important it was to me, and the fact that he did that meant a great deal to me (he agreed with me, but didn't care the way I did).  That night was one of my fondest memories of our relationship (it didn't hurt we won ;).  Politics is absolutely core to how I see the world and I'm quite engaged.  I could only surrender to someone who not only respected my political views but cherished that part of me.

(in reply to nephandi)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: obedience regardless??? - 7/15/2007 10:33:22 PM   
NefertariReborn


Posts: 381
Status: offline 		I'm not at all surprised that the subs would consider telling the Master to take a flying fuck, but I am surprised at some of the *cough* "Slaves???" Are you slaves only when it is convenient for you?  Thought the hallmark of slavery was the submission even when it isn't convenient (and I preface this on the belief that all the prenup work was done before the contract etc. and you agreed to it.) Perhaps "slave" is just a cool label to be used.  Kudos to the slaves who said I might not like it but I would do it because it was required.  And to those who like going over the deep end just because they can and life is not too exciting....let's not go to the walk in the front of the bus, jump off the bridge examples. 

< Message edited by NefertariReborn -- 7/15/2007 10:34:06 PM >

(in reply to kossack)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: obedience regardless??? - 7/16/2007 8:44:19 AM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PapiNsweet


this does not mean that i must agree with my Master on all things, or that he even wishes to change my core beliefs on every issue to mirror his own. it simply means that my respect for my Master and my commitment as a slave far override any personal, free-thinking beliefs/opinions/etc. i agree with Bita in that if i want the freedom and ability to disobey or go my own way when things truly get tough, then i might as well call myself vanilla, no frills.


-daddysprop247


Some people view obeying when times get tough and obeying in a situation that could influence and affect other people as completely different.

< Message edited by AquaticSub -- 7/16/2007 8:45:24 AM >

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to PapiNsweet)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: obedience regardless??? - 7/16/2007 8:49:11 AM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Or that they are trained to question and not simply accept.  Many masters will train their slaves to be sounding boards and proactive in questioning and adding additional information, at least in certain areas- so to NOT ask questions or question obedience would be disobeying and wrong for the slave to do.


When we came together and did our contract, one of the things he indicated was that if he got to something that I considered unethical or morally wrong, I was to state my case. He firmly believes that having faith involves sometimes questioning that faith rather than just blindly following.


Wonderfully put.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to OsideGirl)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: obedience regardless??? - 7/16/2007 9:34:26 AM   
newwillingness


Posts: 7
Joined: 4/22/2007
Status: offline 		So far my experience with obeying is that I do, no matter what.  If he tells me to do something that I feel would put me endager or somehow have the potential to affect my kids (via me getting caught and exposed) in a negative way, I express my concern.  I do not tell him I will not do it, but I express how I think it has the potential to do harm.  We had one of these moments just the other day, he asked me to do something that morally I had no issue with but realistically I was afraid I would get caught in a sting or something along those lines.  I can't afford to lose my kids because I was obeying an order, I explained my concern and he smiled and said "OK".  He never questioned my obediance, I think he was actually greatful that I said what my concern was and that I truly had given what he asked of me thought, that I battled within my own mind what to do, and that I respectfully came to him and told him what was holding me back.  I am thankful that I have a Master who can hear my reasoned thoughts and take them into account when he makes his final decision as to whether or not I will be doing what he originally asked for.  By the way their are several times when he has looked at me and said "so, do it anyway" and I have.

(in reply to AquaticSub)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: obedience regardless??? - 7/16/2007 10:42:57 AM   
slaveofKaos


Posts: 143
Joined: 2/16/2007
From: California
Status: offline 		Well for me it would't be an option with my Master if he told me to do it I would have to do it, so I would take it as an oppertunity to learn all I could about the specific thing or idea im trying to sell. When all is said and done I may still very much not agree with whatever it is but I will have learned more about it and done what my Master wanted. I do understand completly where you're comming from with not thinking you'd be able to do it though because I used to be like that. I just found different ways to look at it for example it is just something Master wants me to do, or it will be a chance for me to learn more about something and so on and so forth.

_____________________________

slave jodi

(in reply to cjenny)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: obedience regardless??? - 1/5/2008 9:53:15 PM   
cindyxdresser


Posts: 42
Joined: 2/8/2007
From: Tulsa ,Oklahoma
Status: offline 		the way i see it is if you have given yourself completely to your master or mistress you have to obey his every order,or accept what ever punishment he or she decides for you

(in reply to sublizzie)
Profile   Post #: 77
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