RE: Can you "learn" to be a Dom....

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slavegirljoy -> RE: Can you "learn" to be a Dom.... (7/19/2007 6:12:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rover I'm having a hard time wondering why we don't have an army comprised of sargeants if everyone is required to proceed as you stated. And I would also note that, as you stated, the armed forces have an element of "necessity" associated with basic leadership training. In that anyone may be required to lead based upon battlefield conditions. Necessity would obviously trump planned allocation of resources. John For the same reason that commercial companies aren't comprised of managers or supervisors. It's not necessary, it's not cost-effective and it would be counterproductive to meeting the mission goals. Everyone has their own role within the army structure. To meet mission requirements, each unit in the army needs to have a certain number of enlisted soldiers of various job skills and duties. Just as a restaurant wouldn't run as well, if all the employees were head chefs and there were no pot scrubbers or potato peelers or Maitre Des, so an army signal company wouldn't function as well, if there were only radio operators and no repair technicians or vehicle mechanics or First Sergeants, for instance. Everyone has a job to do and someone to answer to. Someone has to be in charge and others need to be ready to take charge, if and when the need arises. The size and structure of the army is set by the military planners and strategists at DoD, who estimate and anticipate the country's need for combat soldiers and support troops to carryout current and near-future conflicts, along with their peace-keeping and humanitarian missions, and then congress allocates the funds to fill those needs when it approves the military budget. An army of sergeants would cost a whole lot more than an army of X-number of privates, X-number of specialists and X-number of sergeants. There need be only one person in charge at a time. But, there are times when that person suddenly becomes unable to be in charge and in a very quick turnaround time (within a few minutes out in the field during combat), a new person has to take charge. For day-to-day operations, there isn't a need for all the army to be comprised of sergeants. But, when the need arises (and the need is always greatest during times of war), the army will make quick adjustments to the size and structure of its units and there will be a lot more promotions to sergeant than is usually the case during peacetime. i hope this makes some sense. i am not a military strategist. slave joyOwned property of Master David "Commitment transforms a promise into a reality."

MasterMagnus321 -> RE: Can you "learn" to be a Dom.... (7/19/2007 6:51:17 AM)
I think orientation being either "innate" or "learned" is a flawed analysis- it is very "black and white," "either/or" sounding. IME, reality does not lend itself to such an easy classification. I am a Dom by nature, and I know this because of how I think and feel about things, and even more, when I have had experiences with other friends and partners who are Dom also, I found myself identifying with their essences. However, the world, and reality as a whole, is in a constant state of dynamic flux, so everything is changing, all of the time... I just find my Dom traits to be the most frequently arising characteristics. The ability to detect, recognize, and understand other "interests" or "curiosities" takes great courage, and often the thing that keeps people locked into very strict, very narrow realities is fear.

GhitaAmati -> RE: Can you "learn" to be a Dom.... (7/19/2007 7:09:03 AM)
John, ever heard the phrase "too many cheifs, not enough indians"? Thats why there are less leaders than underlings in both the Military and everything else. If everyone was giving orders, who would follow them? The Military requires everyone to take leadership training. The higher up you go, the more leadership training you have to take. Even privates get to be team leaders for several days in basic. The Army considers this to be a requirement because in battle, you never know when every person higher up than you will get killed or incapacitated or your team gets seperated from your commanding officer. Mr pfc has to be able to take over and still get the job done. ExSteel....Sir started reading this thread the minute it turned into a Military discussion yesterday...lol ghita~

onestandingstill -> RE: Can you "learn" to be a Dom.... (7/19/2007 7:27:02 AM)
I have two men I know who are vanilla men & not Doms. At the same time both like having control when they want to enforce it, but not enough to have full control. One for example has been an on and off again vanilla fuck buddy a little over 2 years now. He likes to tell me how to dress, pins me with his hands and even his legs sometimes when we are intimate, tells me to turn this way and that and to lay perfectly still among many other ideas and orders he has for me. He likes control over those things, but is not interested in learning about bondage, sensual scening or submissive service to him. While he's learning tons about the lifestyle and very inquisitive, it does not reach into the core of him with desire to act on it. I don't think he can be trained to change his approach or become a Dom because he chooses not to. The 2nd man came into the BDSM life as he was attracted to me and the discussion peaked his curiosity. He had lots of people offer to help him learn, but really wanted to just dabble in it. He for example would not let me serve him or lay down any rules of control with me as his lack of prior training made him leary to exercise control without perfecting it somehow first. He was a thinker more than a do'er. After about 4 months he decided he didn't want to role of Dom, but rather he wanted a vanilla base relationship and to top me in the community and dungeon only. Though he read books, learned from other Masters & Doms, and had me willing to follow him, leading was just not for him even though he likes some small level of control & has good control in his vanilla life. Both men are manager that oversee more than 20 people in their jobs and enjoy that authority, but neither want it in their relationships with the opposite sex except for minimally and rarely. These two men can not learn to be Doms as their desire does not ignite the passion to proceed deeper into it. I have a platonic friend who has all the passion for it in the world. He wants nothing more than to be a Master with a devoted slave. His personality is NOT dominant, his skills are rough at best in how to play. Though he wants to be one, his personality does not elicit a submissive response in women so he can't get started. I think it's due to his lack of confidence. He's one who wants to be, but is not equipped in his personality or malleable enough to change that in himself to obtain what he desires. All three were drawn to be Dominant, but will never be Doms. Opposite of that is I met a man who just found BDSM about 2 months before I met him. He was/is intelligent, on fire to learn, had the passion and wanted to take full control of a submissive that would belong to him one day. He was actually really good at it and was very skilled in about 6 months. He seemed to have more experience in 1 year than lots of Doms had in 10. I think over all it's in them or it's not. It can't be forced. Reconditioning someone has a very slim chance of actually changing their minds if they are not willing to change. And over all not all men & women can learn to be a Dom/Domme even if they think it's hot IMO. suzanne

sierraflowr -> RE: Can you "learn" to be a Dom.... (7/19/2007 11:20:28 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: onestandingstill I have two men I know who are vanilla men & not Doms. At the same time both like having control when they want to enforce it, but not enough to have full control. One for example has been an on and off again vanilla fuck buddy a little over 2 years now. He likes to tell me how to dress, pins me with his hands and even his legs sometimes when we are intimate, tells me to turn this way and that and to lay perfectly still among many other ideas and orders he has for me. He likes control over those things, but is not interested in learning about bondage, sensual scening or submissive service to him. While he's learning tons about the lifestyle and very inquisitive, it does not reach into the core of him with desire to act on it. I don't think he can be trained to change his approach or become a Dom because he chooses not to. The 2nd man came into the BDSM life as he was attracted to me and the discussion peaked his curiosity. He had lots of people offer to help him learn, but really wanted to just dabble in it. He for example would not let me serve him or lay down any rules of control with me as his lack of prior training made him leary to exercise control without perfecting it somehow first. He was a thinker more than a do'er. After about 4 months he decided he didn't want to role of Dom, but rather he wanted a vanilla base relationship and to top me in the community and dungeon only. Though he read books, learned from other Masters & Doms, and had me willing to follow him, leading was just not for him even though he likes some small level of control & has good control in his vanilla life. Both men are manager that oversee more than 20 people in their jobs and enjoy that authority, but neither want it in their relationships with the opposite sex except for minimally and rarely. These two men can not learn to be Doms as their desire does not ignite the passion to proceed deeper into it. I have a platonic friend who has all the passion for it in the world. He wants nothing more than to be a Master with a devoted slave. His personality is NOT dominant, his skills are rough at best in how to play. Though he wants to be one, his personality does not elicit a submissive response in women so he can't get started. I think it's due to his lack of confidence. He's one who wants to be, but is not equipped in his personality or malleable enough to change that in himself to obtain what he desires. All three were drawn to be Dominant, but will never be Doms. Opposite of that is I met a man who just found BDSM about 2 months before I met him. He was/is intelligent, on fire to learn, had the passion and wanted to take full control of a submissive that would belong to him one day. He was actually really good at it and was very skilled in about 6 months. He seemed to have more experience in 1 year than lots of Doms had in 10. I think over all it's in them or it's not. It can't be forced. Reconditioning someone has a very slim chance of actually changing their minds if they are not willing to change. And over all not all men & women can learn to be a Dom/Domme even if they think it's hot IMO. suzanne i tend to agree here with you suzanne. My husband at one point thought he was a switch and though he could beat me pretty well, his mind wasn't there. although he has a very dominant job, mainly teaching -in the military- it rarely pushes over into our home life. eventually he stopped topping me and has been 'sub' ever since. i'm going to start the opposite of this topic. about a female becoming Domme... look for it!

SimplyMichael -> RE: Can you "learn" to be a Dom.... (7/19/2007 12:12:37 PM)
Evil Grin, quote: But (assuming he was correctly quoted) can Rinella's years of experience prove that one can learn to be a "Dominant Personality" if it is against your nature ? People learn to do things all the time they don't enjoy enough to do for free. That's why you have to pay them. People volunteer to do the things they love doing. I think to be a perfect 10 (again, using an imaginary made up pretend not real scale) dominant you do need to love doing this but to be a 6-8 I think can be learned if it isn't your thing.

Rover -> RE: Can you "learn" to be a Dom.... (7/19/2007 12:42:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GhitaAmati John, ever heard the phrase "too many cheifs, not enough indians"? Thats why there are less leaders than underlings in both the Military and everything else. If everyone was giving orders, who would follow them? The Military requires everyone to take leadership training. The higher up you go, the more leadership training you have to take. Even privates get to be team leaders for several days in basic. The Army considers this to be a requirement because in battle, you never know when every person higher up than you will get killed or incapacitated or your team gets seperated from your commanding officer. Mr pfc has to be able to take over and still get the job done. ExSteel....Sir started reading this thread the minute it turned into a Military discussion yesterday...lol ghita~ That was my point exactly, ghita. That basic leadership training is not intended to make leaders of everyone, just as Biology 101 is not intended to make everyoe into doctors. It's just to familiarize people with the general topic. My continued assertion, confirmed by joy's most recent post (# 101) is that serious leadership training is only invested in the relatively few candidates that demonstrate leadership qualities, as evidenced by their promotion to higher rank. So there is a culling process and those resources are not equally distributed to leaders and followers alike. An earlier post implied something to the contrary. John

LotusSong -> RE: Can you "learn" to be a Dom.... (7/19/2007 1:41:20 PM)
I've revisited this thread and find something a bit disturbing.. If we are so above vanilla.. then why do we persist in the vanilla behavior of trying to change our S.O.?

GhitaAmati -> RE: Can you "learn" to be a Dom.... (7/19/2007 3:50:23 PM)
quote: as evidenced by their promotion to higher rank Have you ever noticed...in all things...people continue to get promoted as long as they are doing well at their job...the minute they end up in a position they suck at, they stop getting promoted...and stay at that job they suck at. just an observation. quote: If we are so above vanilla.. then why do we persist in the vanilla behavior of trying to change our S.O.? Im not sure that I would call us above anybody..we're just different and happen to be ok with that. That being said, Im not trying to change anyone...My Sir happens to want to learn all this. ghita~ ~edited to fix the littel quote thingys (yes, thingy is a technical term)

ExSteelAgain -> RE: Can you "learn" to be a Dom.... (7/19/2007 6:01:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GhitaAmati ExSteel....Sir started reading this thread the minute it turned into a Military discussion yesterday...lol ghita~ Great, I was an Army officer, also.

ExSteelAgain -> RE: Can you "learn" to be a Dom.... (7/19/2007 10:35:26 PM)
One flaw I saw in this thread was the constant equating of leadership to dominance in our D/s sense. There are a couple of dominant posters on the boards who have commented in the past that they don’t like to lead in work groups and other situations. They seem to be very competent doms who wow the subs easily enough in real life. I remember one writing that he felt pressured leading in any situation and avoided it at all costs. Matter of fact, it appeared he had a low keyed, lower paying job where he felt very happy. I have no doubt that he is a great Dom who enjoys being a Master for at least one submissive masochist who posts here a lot. I have seen too many reversal of jobs and D/s roles not to think a submissive can’t be a great leader and a dominant a great follower. What happens between two people in a D/s sense has so many dynamics. It may be something as simple as one person desires the other so much that they will do anything the person wants. If they both find excitement, it seems to me they are on the way to a pretty good D/s relationship.

slavegirljoy -> RE: Can you "learn" to be a Dom.... (7/20/2007 1:14:33 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rover My continued assertion, confirmed by joy's most recent post (# 101) is that serious leadership training is only invested in the relatively few candidates that demonstrate leadership qualities, as evidenced by their promotion to higher rank. So there is a culling process and those resources are not equally distributed to leaders and followers alike. An earlier post implied something to the contrary. John Just to clarify, i think i said, or at least, i meant to say, that every enlisted soldier is required to attend and graduate leadership training. If they stay in the army long enough, they will receive higher levels of training in leadership skills, along with higher levels of training in their particular job, whether it's mechanics, logistics or artillery, etc. Everyone gets some leadership training in basic and everyone must graduate from the Primary Leadership Development Course, which is 4 weeks long, as a requirement for promotion to sergeant. Then there is the Basic Noncommissioned Officer Course (BNCOC), required for promotion to Staff Sergeant and Advanced NCO Course (ANCOC), required for promotion to Sergeant First Class (SFC). The ultimate leadership course for enlisted members in the army is the Sergeants Major Academy, a 6 month-long course that is required for Master Sergeants and First Sergeants to be promoted to Sergeant Major. Promotions are not based on leadership potential or the need for leaders. Promotions, above the rank of corporal/specialist 4, are based on a point system of up to 1,000 points. Depending on the army's needs, the points needed to get promoted vary by grade and job specialty. Points are awarded for a variety of performance and educational accomplishments. Points for Leadership are awarded by the company commander and can be no more than 30. That's a maximum of 30 points out of 1,000 for leadership skills. A soldier can get more points for scoring well on the annual physical fitness test and weapons qualification (up to 50 points for each) and more for civilian and military education (100 points and 200 points, respectively). Of course, just because someone graduates from a leadership course doesn't necessarily mean that they will be placed in a leadership position. A unit commander will determine which NCOs, from his pool of eligible sergeants, is the most capable of filling that need. Not everyone, who completes leadership training, is going to be a good leader. But, if the need arises, every soldier needs to be ready to take on a leadership role and, therefor needs to be trained. Also, as i stated in an earlier post, being trained to lead doesn't make someone become a Dominant. i served in a number of leadership positions and i was just as submissive as i have always been. i was simply carrying-out my assigned duties as well as i could, just as i currently fulfill my slave duties for my Master. i had a leadership style that was more of the task-oriented and democratic variety, rather than autocratic. i didn't bark out orders, but, instead, said things like, "Okay, we need to get this, this, and this done and the sooner we get it done, the sooner we can all get out of here, so let's get to it and get it done. Anyone want to volunteer for a particular task or have any suggestions on how best to get this done?" The army recognizes that it is made up of many different personality types and it's leadership courses teach various styles and techniques to address the variety of personalities, so that each soldier can find a style that suits him/her best. slave joy Owned property of Master David "Commitment transforms a promise into a reality."

Rover -> RE: Can you "learn" to be a Dom.... (7/20/2007 5:28:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GhitaAmati quote: as evidenced by their promotion to higher rank Have you ever noticed...in all things...people continue to get promoted as long as they are doing well at their job...the minute they end up in a position they suck at, they stop getting promoted...and stay at that job they suck at. just an observation. That is called the "Peter Principle" in which people will rise to the level of their incompetence, and stay there. It's a well studied and documented theory. John

Rover -> RE: Can you "learn" to be a Dom.... (7/20/2007 5:32:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ExSteelAgain One flaw I saw in this thread was the constant equating of leadership to dominance in our D/s sense. There are a couple of dominant posters on the boards who have commented in the past that they don’t like to lead in work groups and other situations. They seem to be very competent doms who wow the subs easily enough in real life. I remember one writing that he felt pressured leading in any situation and avoided it at all costs. Matter of fact, it appeared he had a low keyed, lower paying job where he felt very happy. I have no doubt that he is a great Dom who enjoys being a Master for at least one submissive masochist who posts here a lot. I have seen too many reversal of jobs and D/s roles not to think a submissive can’t be a great leader and a dominant a great follower. What happens between two people in a D/s sense has so many dynamics. It may be something as simple as one person desires the other so much that they will do anything the person wants. If they both find excitement, it seems to me they are on the way to a pretty good D/s relationship. I agree completely that there's no correlation between the dynamics one engages in conensually for their personal relationships and the dynamics one engages in at the workplace (or within any other group). It is, as you say, a false premise. But one that people (including myself in this instance) often fall prey to. John

bettamorphasis -> RE: Can you "learn" to be a Dom.... (7/20/2007 6:07:11 AM)
<<< wonders if "outside factors" ( outside of bdsm , D/s) can contribute to character formation /deviation... banal example : guy gets raped in jail while on a 6 week stint for unpaid parking fines... becomes ( in theory ,his own mind) the "evillest Dom ever to walk the earth" or woman feels guilty for child being run over in freak accident... becomes the most introverted passive person ... meaning .. do life events ( i wouldnt exactly call that "nurture" ) influence ones disposition to become aggressive /passive in sexual expression??? and does that "leak" into how one identifies in bdsm D/s??? Or are we genetically predisposed to being Dom/sub/sWitch and no amount of "life experience" will alter that??? Cheers Also.. wouldnt it be more logical to seek a "life partner" based on D/s needs ( if its that important to you) ... rather than hope to manipulate current partner into the ideal "playmate"???

GhitaAmati -> RE: Can you "learn" to be a Dom.... (7/20/2007 6:47:13 AM)
quote: Also.. wouldnt it be more logical to seek a "life partner" based on D/s needs ( if its that important to you) ... rather than hope to manipulate current partner into the ideal "playmate"??? bettamorphasis, I have found my lifepartner...based on many things....things I dont think really belong on this forum. D/s is a part of me yes, it is who I am, He married me knowing full well who I am, and I knowing who he is. There is no question about changing him, and at whatever level in this we get to...whether its a very low level, or a high one, he will still be my life partner and I couldnt be happier with him in my life. S&M is something we are exploring together, something he would like to get more involved in, something I hope works out for both of us. If it doesnt, if it comes to a point in time where he says to me "ya know, this just isnt doing it for me." That will be ok with me. Sure I will miss it, but then I miss shellfish too.....but knowing that Id much rather breathe, I dont eat it. If I have to choose between living a vanilla life with him, and living a life without him...im gonna go vanilla....I can still be a submissive, I can still be who I am inside, without getting beat on occasionally.

dommalemn -> RE: Can you "learn" to be a Dom.... (7/20/2007 7:52:50 AM)
Well now we have over 100 replies to your question and people are not looking at what your real question is. ( if I am interrupting it right) 1. You said that your SO was dominate. 2. You said that He dose sadistic things. 3. You said that He is concerned about you when he is being sadistic. 4. You said that he finds your enjoyment of the sadistic things enjoyable (that He likes the feeling that He gives you, but not the act of flogging or whatever it is that he is doing) To me your question is can he learn to like being sadistic aside from the enjoyment of making you happy? A better question would be is it alright if He gets His enjoyment from watching your excitement in the sadistic acts. You seem to think that seeing that you are getting what you want that it is not Domly of him to only get out of it seeing you enjoy it. In time you will go to higher levels as he learns that you are actually liking what is going on (He is doing this by asking you questions) . Instead of thinking about how to get Him to like the act, try to get him to like the feeling that he is giving you. You can give Him the POWER to give you that feeling that makes you so happy. It is not a bad thing to just flog for the enjoyment of the enjoyment that the other person gets. Just a few thoughts as I read this thread. If it is help use it if not that is fine. Dommalemn

GhitaAmati -> RE: Can you "learn" to be a Dom.... (7/20/2007 7:59:33 AM)
smiles...thank you

dommalemn -> RE: Can you "learn" to be a Dom.... (7/20/2007 8:06:17 AM)
your welcome

lateralist1 -> RE: Can you "learn" to be a Dom.... (7/20/2007 9:26:54 AM)
I'm glad someone got there in the end. As long as you are both doing your best to make yourselves and one another happy. Nothing else really matters. If he wants to Dom you just let him do it in his own way. I'd stop trying to teach him how you want to be dommed because in my book you are then domming him. However a sub can help to give a dom/me confidence in his/her own ability. You know try being a good submissive. Part of the reason I like to top is to see a bottom I like/love enjoying themselves. Part of the reason I'm a Domme is that I enjoy dominating somone into giving me what I want.

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