RE: I have a theory... (Full Version)

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BitaTruble -> RE: I have a theory... (7/14/2007 7:39:46 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: camille65

Bita I not only agree with you but I feel the same way. Therefore it can't be called a flaw [;)].


::laughs:: I wish I could give that a thumbs up, I really do! I do see it as a flaw because in my view it's a form of bigotry. I am taking a group of people and putting an expectation on them based on their orientation so I do call it a flaw. I don't want to be a bigot but there it is and I have so many flaws on which to work that I can't possibly, in my lifetime, fix them all, so I've decided 'not' to try to fix that one as it's just much to low on my flaw scale to worry about plus I already have a Master so it's not like my standards are going to mean anything to anyone else anyway.

[8D]

Celeste

PS: I love your name. You share it with my son's g/f (who I am 'hoping' will be my daughter-in-law some day!)



robertolapiedra -> RE: I have a theory... (7/14/2007 7:45:06 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

... this is beneath you and rather insulting to the OP.



Fair enough. Your right. I apologize to her and I apologize to Focus50.

It was unfair and horribly low. I wont edit my post to change it.

But I wont apologize for the point of what I was implying, but rather how I chose to imply it.

I am just slightly annoyed time and time again as new Doms who have really no other crime than being ignorant of the dynamic and still caught up in their own misconceptions get run off the boards without any of the "open arms" posts I am seeing here.

Nor was I doing that to this girl. There was nothing condescending or harsh in my post that I was aware of, just bluntly illustrating how she was coming off to people reading it.





Hello MadRabbit.

Quote:- "Never yield to remorse, but at once tell yourself: remorse would simply mean adding to the first act of stupidity a second." from Nietzsche's The Wanderer and his Shadow.

I'm quoting in good fun, from one of your favourites. For what it's worth, I dont think you did anything wrong with your postings. This has a lot to do with newbie skin thickness, methinks. RL.



aSlavesLife -> RE: I have a theory... (7/14/2007 8:46:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: palerose

Okay so it's not exactly groundbreaking, but I'm new, so I'm gonna throw it out there again [:)]

Before I unload, let me just say welcome aboard.

Do you every wonder as Doms, if you are just doing what all men want to do? You can have your woman do whatever you want her to do; if you want more than one woman you can have them, you can have sex anyway you want, and someone to clean up for you if you want!

I really don't think that I am doing what all men want. Considering the number of pussy whipped, topped from the bottom, supposed Dom's that I see online, I don't even think that I am doing what all ' Dom's ' want. The cleaning up bit is a nice perk, though.

This is why I think Dom's are special. You deserve to have subs to do all this for you because you are careful and have learnt how to give her what she wants in return. You take everything, without taking advantage.

Please don't be so naive as to think that there aren't dominants that won't take advantage of you, because there are. Remember the old knights code of chivalry? Well, that code was more myth than reality, a lofty ideal that some aspired to, but few ever approached. Things haven't gotten any better in the here and now. Just my friendly advice here, and not meant to offend or disillusion you.

An example of 'normal' relationships to compare BDSM to: Domestic abuse. People beating their partners because they have not done what they wanted them to do, or in mere frustration..or the barage of other reasons....
Sure physical violence is an aspect of BDSM, a pretty big one!!But in the most part it is designed specifically NOT to cause any real harm to the sub.

In theory this is true, but in practice it isn't always the case. And not only are there abusive Dom's, but abusive submissives as well. Oh, their abuse may not be physical, but being taken financial advantage of is a form of abuse. There are plenty of skanky, lazy, gold digging subs out there that are ready and willing to take any and every advantage they can. Hell, who wouldn't want to sit on their ass all day watching soaps and eating bon bons while their " dominant " earns a living and comes home to a dirty house to bask in the glory of  " owning " the " submissive " lounging on the sofa?


I'm a total newbie, just wanting to get more involved in discussing the lifestyle to help me learn how to live it and to generally broaden my horizons [:)]

Also I know Dom's have male subs aswell, I'm just writing this from my p.of v, that is male Dom and female sub.

Yep, but of course your detractors neglect to read this part. But one can't expect a rabid animal to look over everything in detail. Heavens no! They are too busy lunging for the throat to bother with such trivial details. Forgive them, please. Bad apples that think they know it all are a dime a dozen online. Just remember that if they had meaningful relationships of their own, they wouldn't have 15+ hours a day free to spend online.

Also I realise this is a very rambling message...will do better in future [;)]

palerose x



Best wishes to you, from both myself and my pet. Just don't let the dogma spouting attack dogs wear you down and you'll be just fine.
 
Owner of slave L



slavegirljoy -> RE: I have a theory... (7/14/2007 8:52:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: palerose
Do you every wonder as Doms, if you are just doing what all men want to do? You can have your woman do whatever you want her to do; if you want more than one woman you can have them, you can have sex anyway you want, and someone to clean up for you if you want!
This, of course, isn't the case in every D/s relationship.  In some, it is, but not all.  For one thing, a lot of D/s relationships are strictly monogamous.

quote:

This is why I think Doms are special. You deserve to have subs to do all this for you because you are careful and have learnt how to give her what she wants in return. You take everything, without taking advantage.
Also, not always the case.  In an ideal world, (which we don't live in), this could be true, but it's not.  It's possible and it does happen, when two (or more) come together who are right for each other.  That is special.

quote:

An example of 'normal' relationships to compare BDSM to: Domestic abuse. People beating their partners because they have not done what they wanted them to do, or in mere frustration..or the barage of other reasons....
For me and my Master, the only type of relationship that is "normal" is one based on Dominance and submission and B&D and S&M.  The relationship that i have with my Master is very normal, for us.  Also, there are plenty of non-BDSM relationships that are pretty abnormal.
 
Just my perspective.
 slave joyOwned property of Master David "Commitment transforms a promise into a reality."



Focus50 -> RE: I have a theory... (7/15/2007 3:06:52 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50
I agree a few of those early replies were needlessly harsh but take it as a lesson learnt.  It is a reflection on them, NOT you, that they'd rather be short, cynical and condescending to a newbie as opposed to simply 'X'ing out of a topic they've obviously got little time or patience with.

*sniffles* Focus, you can't mean me, can you?

Hmmm, can't tell from your current b&w pic but I seem to recall you're a redhead too...? (Equals "get out of jail free" card)
 
So to answer your question - NO!  lmao
 
Focus.



Focus50 -> RE: I have a theory... (7/15/2007 3:24:07 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50

I agree a few of those early replies were needlessly harsh but take it as a lesson learnt.  It is a reflection on them, NOT you, that they'd rather be short, cynical and condescending to a newbie as opposed to simply 'X'ing out of a topic they've obviously got little time or patience with.
 
I understand that as do most with experience so stick around and learn to ignore those who'd just rather dump on your lack of knowledge to presumably feel good about themselves .
 
Focus.


Wow...this is certainly different than your responses to 20 year old newbie Doms.

Enjoying that picture of those titties huh?

Lets see - in theory a 20yo sub need only do as she is told by her dom, with arguably the only real decision she need make is deciding who that dom is.  Now that 20yo dom is charged with making ongoing decisions for the life of the relationship and for the benefit of *two*.  Such is my hypocrisy that I hold a 20yo *dom/me* to a higher standard!
 
Second point - please highlight where I mentioned anything about "titties".  Failing that, at least have the good grace not to project your obsessions and tasteless comments onto me.
 
Focus.



Focus50 -> RE: I have a theory... (7/15/2007 3:31:07 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

... this is beneath you and rather insulting to the OP.



Fair enough. Your right. I apologize to her and I apologize to Focus50.

It was unfair and horribly low. I wont edit my post to change it.

But I wont apologize for the point of what I was implying, but rather how I chose to imply it.

I am just slightly annoyed time and time again as new Doms who have really no other crime than being ignorant of the dynamic and still caught up in their own misconceptions get run off the boards without any of the "open arms" posts I am seeing here.

Nor was I doing that to this girl. There was nothing condescending or harsh in my post that I was aware of, just bluntly illustrating how she was coming off to people reading it.

Yours truly accepts your apology with the same sincerity in which you offer it.
 
Focus.



palerose -> RE: I have a theory... (7/15/2007 4:09:37 AM)

Haha okay I'm getting a good picture of people as I read through everyone's replies...MadRabbit, you seem like a banterous soul and my apologies for being rude.

Lower down the first page of replies, there are people who have worded what I was trying to convey alot better than I managed to word it!

I am naive, even before I got into all this I have always had a riduculous ideas of love and chivalry. Heck who didn't when they were young??As I've grown up, believe me I've had my fair share of assholes, and I've learnt that men are wankers. But there are a few wonderful ones out there, and my post was referring to the wonderful ones. It was meant as a comment on good D/s relationships, of course there are bad ones out there, I accept that, but wasn't talking about that.

A few people commented on my use of 'normal'. I put it in inverted commas because it's normal in the sense of what society sees as the average. Of course we are normal too. But like someone said, people who don't have the same kink, are not going to look with understanding eyes on somone who owns another person...slavery bad...

About what was mentioned about us being like animals and comparing human relationships to those of a dog pack: To me, to sumbit to a strong and fair man seems like the most natural thing on earth.I've always thought this was perhaps because of what you said, about the animals naturally submitting to the dominance of the Alpha male.We are after all just animals (dirty filthy animal in my case) so why should we be any different? And BDSM aside look at society. By all means come back with facts and figures about other countries around the world, but I'm talking about western society because it's what I know. Men are still in charge!Women are still paid less, it's more common to have a man in charge or our country (even if he is a total twat), women are whistled at on the street and portrayed in magazines as sexual objects more so than men. So that kind of proves the animal theory that we naturally submit to male dominance, perhaps because they can protect us or whatever I havn't got a great knowledge of psychology. Although...it's not really fair that men have everything better than us ladies....so should society have evolved to reach equality?Well yes I think it should. And yet I want to be the submissive in my personal relationship...ah confusion.
But then where does everyone else come in? Male subs and Dommes? I have no idea. Does that prove the animal idea wrong?Or does it simply mean that there is a seperate explanation for their kinks?Or is it just the great variety of life and everyones wonderful differences?answers on a postcard please.


Interesting what you've said about people sticking up for me a bit and not for young Doms...thanks for sticking up for me btw
I think Focus50 has it in a nutshell, they're responsible for 2 lives, if they've got it wrong they need telling!Heck I still need telling I don't want to be under any kind of misguidance on my journey.

And what's all this talk about my titties???lol

Right, bring it on. x







MadRabbit -> RE: I have a theory... (7/15/2007 9:39:29 AM)

Hate to break it to you, but the hyprocricy is in reprimanding others for being short, cynical, and condescending when plenty of your posts show that same attitude.

Being short, condescending and cynical to one person and not to another is hyprocricy regardless of what double standard you use to justify it.

If your old age is affecting your memory, I can gladly provide a refresher course with the search options of many of your posts where you are nothing but short cynical and condescending. As well as posts where you have dumped on people for their lack of knowledge.

Sorry if you dont like being called out on your bullshit, but still doesnt stop the fall from the high horse straight onto your ass.



Faramir -> RE: I have a theory... (7/15/2007 9:44:59 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Grlwithboy
Most of the men I've met and progressed to flirting with or talking about possibilities with express desire to submit, to be able to let down the guard, to have decisions made NOT by them, etc.  I've often thought that this is a case of water seeking its level, or maybe more one of "if you have a hammer everything else looks like a nail" on my part, at worst.


We queer our own sample.  I don't meet, flirt with, and date the general female population, but rather that chunk of the female population that is at least initially attracted to loud, intense, bossy men with my kind of looks...which happens to be a generally submissive population.



Rover -> RE: I have a theory... (7/15/2007 10:11:14 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50

Lets see - in theory a 20yo sub need only do as she is told by her dom, with arguably the only real decision she need make is deciding who that dom is. 


Now that may work in the theoretical world, but in the practical world we call that a "sack of 'taters". 
 
John



Grlwithboy -> RE: I have a theory... (7/15/2007 10:47:37 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Faramir

quote:

ORIGINAL: Grlwithboy
Most of the men I've met and progressed to flirting with or talking about possibilities with express desire to submit, to be able to let down the guard, to have decisions made NOT by them, etc.  I've often thought that this is a case of water seeking its level, or maybe more one of "if you have a hammer everything else looks like a nail" on my part, at worst.


We queer our own sample.  I don't meet, flirt with, and date the general female population, but rather that chunk of the female population that is at least initially attracted to loud, intense, bossy men with my kind of looks...which happens to be a generally submissive population.


Yes. Wow, someone else who doesn't think the whole world reflects their dynamic because they take it with a grain of salt that that's the dynamic they're trying to hone in on.



slaveish -> RE: I have a theory... (7/15/2007 11:09:45 AM)

~Fast Reply to the OP~


~chuckle~

Take the blindfold off, girl.



robertolapiedra -> RE: I have a theory... (7/15/2007 12:10:46 PM)

quote:

We queer our own sample.


Hello Faramir. Exactly! RL.





slavegirljoy -> RE: I have a theory... (7/16/2007 12:25:25 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50

Lets see - in theory a 20yo sub need only do as she is told by her dom, with arguably the only real decision she need make is deciding who that dom is.  Now that 20yo dom is charged with making ongoing decisions for the life of the relationship and for the benefit of *two*.  Such is my hypocrisy that I hold a 20yo *dom/me* to a higher standard!
 
Focus.


This isn't the case within my TPE relationship with my Master.  While He has the Power to make all of the decisions and the final decision is always up to Him and He has absolute veto power over any decision i make, the fact is, that many decisions are made by this slave, daily.   i consider it to be a very big part of my responsibility, as a slave, to lessen the burden my Master carries.  Why should He be bothered with making every single decision, every day, when i am perfectly able to help with that?  There are much more important matters my Master must deal with than deciding what to fix for dinner, for example.  There are many more examples i could give and many of them are not as trivial as what to cook for dinner, but this is just one that popped into my brain at the moment and i think it makes my point well enough.  i make decisions about a lot of things that my Master trusts me to do and counts on me to do.  Of course, He tells me what to do and i do it, but not every second of the day.  He doesn't have the need or desire to do that.   Just because i handed over all rights, for making decisions about my life, to my Master doesn't mean that i gave up my responsibility for my life.  i am still the one who is responsible for making sure that my basic health and well-being needs are being met.  i made certain that the Master i chose to belong to would be able to meet those needs and He does, but it's still up to me to decide whether or not my needs are being met and to do something about it, if i feel they aren't.  To me, that is just as important to my Master as it is to me because, if my needs aren't being met, i will not be able to function as well as i should and i will not be able to serve my Master as well as i should.  i need to be healthy, physically and emotionally, in order to be the best slave i can be for my Master, and that means i need to take care of myself, otherwise i won't be able to take care of my Master.   In Oour relationship, i am just as responsible for Oour happiness and well-being and for making Oour lives the best they can be, as He is.  Oour burden is a shared one and, because of that, my Master has a more relaxed, comfortable, and happy life.  And, that is a big part of the reason why i'm here. slave joyOwned property of Master David "Commitment transforms a promise into a reality."



Focus50 -> RE: I have a theory... (7/16/2007 3:04:22 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50

Lets see - in theory a 20yo sub need only do as she is told by her dom, with arguably the only real decision she need make is deciding who that dom is. 


Now that may work in the theoretical world, but in the practical world we call that a "sack of 'taters".  

Awwww, Rover, seems like only yesterday that it was you "melting down" very publically just as MadRabbit is now.  Here's a quote you may recall posting:
 
"Beyond that, I find no useful purpose discussing anything with you."
 
For any interested spectators, the "Beyond that" comment was a reference to a Jack Rinella article.
 
Seems a bloke can't believe anything you post - but I do admire your "little engine that could" attitude.
 
Focus.



Focus50 -> RE: I have a theory... (7/16/2007 3:24:22 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

Hate to break it to you, but the hyprocricy is in reprimanding others for being short, cynical, and condescending when plenty of your posts show that same attitude.

Being short, condescending and cynical to one person and not to another is hyprocricy regardless of what double standard you use to justify it.

If your old age is affecting your memory, I can gladly provide a refresher course with the search options of many of your posts where you are nothing but short cynical and condescending. As well as posts where you have dumped on people for their lack of knowledge.

Sorry if you dont like being called out on your bullshit, but still doesnt stop the fall from the high horse straight onto your ass.

It's not hypocrisy for me to be short, sharp, condescending, sarcastic, dismissive, blah blah at all when I generally limit its use to responding to frustrated vitriole such as this.  As always, I prefer to post to the topic but I can still have my fun "poking the bear" when some perplexed loudmouth wants to obsessively unload perpetual personal attacks my way.
 
Yesterday (in another thread) you were laughing at me (allegedly); today you're stamping your feet disrupting this thread!  Mate, everything isn't about *you*; get over yourself!  And for cryin' out loud, pull yourself together....
 
Focus.



Focus50 -> RE: I have a theory... (7/16/2007 3:56:47 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slavegirljoy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50

Lets see - in theory a 20yo sub need only do as she is told by her dom, with arguably the only real decision she need make is deciding who that dom is.  Now that 20yo dom is charged with making ongoing decisions for the life of the relationship and for the benefit of *two*.  Such is my hypocrisy that I hold a 20yo *dom/me* to a higher standard!
 
Focus.


This isn't the case within my TPE relationship with my Master.  While He has the Power to make all of the decisions and the final decision is always up to Him and He has absolute veto power over any decision i make, the fact is, that many decisions are made by this slave, daily.   i consider it to be a very big part of my responsibility, as a slave, to lessen the burden my Master carries.  Why should He be bothered with making every single decision, every day, when i am perfectly able to help with that?  There are much more important matters my Master must deal with than deciding what to fix for dinner, for example.  There are many more examples i could give and many of them are not as trivial as what to cook for dinner, but this is just one that popped into my brain at the moment and i think it makes my point well enough.  i make decisions about a lot of things that my Master trusts me to do and counts on me to do.  Of course, He tells me what to do and i do it, but not every second of the day.  He doesn't have the need or desire to do that.   Just because i handed over all rights, for making decisions about my life, to my Master doesn't mean that i gave up my responsibility for my life.  i am still the one who is responsible for making sure that my basic health and well-being needs are being met.  i made certain that the Master i chose to belong to would be able to meet those needs and He does, but it's still up to me to decide whether or not my needs are being met and to do something about it, if i feel they aren't.  To me, that is just as important to my Master as it is to me because, if my needs aren't being met, i will not be able to function as well as i should and i will not be able to serve my Master as well as i should.  i need to be healthy, physically and emotionally, in order to be the best slave i can be for my Master, and that means i need to take care of myself, otherwise i won't be able to take care of my Master.   In Oour relationship, i am just as responsible for Oour happiness and well-being and for making Oour lives the best they can be, as He is.  Oour burden is a shared one and, because of that, my Master has a more relaxed, comfortable, and happy life.  And, that is a big part of the reason why i'm here. slave joyOwned property of Master David "Commitment transforms a promise into a reality."

Surely you must realise the futility of trying to post while taking into account every single persons individual relationship dynamic?
 
And the point in question was of 20yo doms vs 20yo subs.  I note you're closer to my age and even if you were a 50yo first day newbie, you'd still bring life skills and experience into a D/s relationship that a 20yo wouldn't have.  So of course one would expect you to competently carry out assorted tasks and make everyday decisions etc your Master may delegate to you, *because* your life experience suggests you're more competent and capable.
 
But I'm guessing your Master isn't 20 something?  You'd have no problems being bound and blindfolded etc and at the whim of a 20yo dom about to attempt his first experience with needle play or something?  Even his 3rd attempt at it?  You'd trust him not to panic and act responsibly if something went wrong?  And would you not have more confidence if it were a 50yo dom with a 20yo sub newbie?
 
Look, anyone can pull out specific examples to prove any point they like - death and taxes are still the only certainties in life.  It probably won't be long before some whiz posts of an 18yo dom they know who is 99% trustworthy, competent and reliable etc while they equally know a 50yo dom who's a walking/talking blowhard felony at D/s - which will only prove one thing, "death and taxes"! 
 
But in a general sense where I don't know every single individual or dynamic out there, and neither does anyone else, I'd trust the average 50yo over a 20yo dom any day and I hold doms to a higher standard than subs because they're the ones tasked with being in charge, in control and the safety officer during a scene.  To someone else, it may be just a "sack of 'taters" and I couldn't care less; their opinion isn't my opinion.
 
Focus.



slavegirljoy -> RE: I have a theory... (7/16/2007 5:02:37 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50
And the point in question was of 20yo doms vs 20yo subs.  I note you're closer to my age and even if you were a 50yo first day newbie, you'd still bring life skills and experience into a D/s relationship that a 20yo wouldn't have.  So of course one would expect you to competently carry out assorted tasks and make everyday decisions etc your Master may delegate to you, *because* your life experience suggests you're more competent and capable.
i did the same when i was 21 and brand new to BDSM and in my very first D/s relationship with my 37 year old Dom/Husband.  i had just as much responsibility and decision-making in that relationship as i do in this one. 
quote:

But I'm guessing your Master isn't 20 something?  You'd have no problems being bound and blindfolded etc and at the whim of a 20yo dom about to attempt his first experience with needle play or something?  Even his 3rd attempt at it?  You'd trust him not to panic and act responsibly if something went wrong?  And would you not have more confidence if it were a 50yo dom with a 20yo sub newbie?
i have never had enough confidence in any 20 year old Dom to do anything with one.  The youngest Dom i have ever been with was 37 and that was when i was 21.  So, in that sense, i hold younger Doms to a lesser standard or, at least, a lesser expectation and with less confidence, than i do younger subs.  Although, i hold both equally respsonsible for their own ability to know what they each want and what they are doing and when to stop and when to get out.
 
quote:

Look, anyone can pull out specific examples to prove any point they like - death and taxes are still the only certainties in life.
And, when someone does offer a specific example that is different from what the "theory" has stated, i believe that usually makes the theory generally false. slave joyOwned property of Master David "Commitment transforms a promise into a reality."



Rover -> RE: I have a theory... (7/16/2007 5:03:11 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50

Lets see - in theory a 20yo sub need only do as she is told by her dom, with arguably the only real decision she need make is deciding who that dom is. 


Now that may work in the theoretical world, but in the practical world we call that a "sack of 'taters".  

Awwww, Rover, seems like only yesterday that it was you "melting down" very publically just as MadRabbit is now.  Here's a quote you may recall posting:
 
"Beyond that, I find no useful purpose discussing anything with you."
 
For any interested spectators, the "Beyond that" comment was a reference to a Jack Rinella article.
 
Seems a bloke can't believe anything you post - but I do admire your "little engine that could" attitude.
 
Focus.


To begin, let's observe that you don't even make the pretense of discussing the issue. 

I don't recall that I'm prone to meltdowns, either public or private.  But there is always a useful purpose in confronting fantasy portrayed as reality for the benefit of those who are reading along.  There is a meaningful difference between online theory and real time practicality.  You might be in a better position to judge that for yourself if you had experience beyond the theoretical.  That's not a denigration, just a statement of fact.
 
I know you'll endeavor to turn this into a flame war, as you do with every disagreement you have with people.  And truth be known, I may from time to time oblige you for my own entertainment.  That still does not rise to the level of a "useful purpose". 
 
John



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