RE: I have a theory...

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MadRabbit -> RE: I have a theory... (7/16/2007 5:09:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Focus50 Awwww, Rover, seems like only yesterday that it was you "melting down" very publically just as MadRabbit is now. Here's a quote you may recall posting: Its amazing how anytime someone calls out Focus50 on his bullshit, they are the ones having a meltdown. I guess I need to beat my chest, hurl apeshit, mock people's sexuial choices and orientations, and turn everything into flames everytime someone says "Uh no..." in reference to my uber gorilla dominance in every single thread so people just take it as normal behavior and not melting down.

Rover -> RE: I have a theory... (7/16/2007 5:51:31 AM)
It's not uncommon for those that are frustrated and without the tools to manage their frustration to lash out at the perceived source of that frustration. I say "perceived source" purposely, as many people are the source of their own frustration but project responsibility upon another party. John

SimplyMichael -> RE: I have a theory... (7/16/2007 12:20:15 PM)
Focus50, The most fucked up, abusive, and dysfunctional dominants I know are "older men" . The most screwed up BDSM group I know of is run by an older male dominant. The difference I see "on average" between older and younger dominants is younger ones tend to fuck up their partners, older ones seem to want to fuck up entire communities. quote: You'd have no problems being bound and blindfolded etc and at the whim of a 20yo dom about to attempt his first experience with needle play or something? Even his 3rd attempt at it? You'd trust him not to panic and act responsibly if something went wrong? And would you not have more confidence if it were a 50yo dom with a 20yo sub newbie? Stupid example as a simple skill can be learned by anyone. Needle play isn't complicated, the army has 18 year old medics who do far more. It does carry higher risk but there is nothing intrinsic about a 50 year old handling a needle that makes is any less risky. In addition, the age thing is a red herring, if you asked her if she would want to be tied up by someone skinnier and shorter than here she would probably decline as well. Age, like size carries a PERCIEVED power but that is vastly different than the REAL power you are trying to state it does. quote: Look, anyone can pull out specific examples to prove any point they like - death and taxes are still the only certainties in life. It probably won't be long before some whiz posts of an 18yo dom they know who is 99% trustworthy, competent and reliable etc while they equally know a 50yo dom who's a walking/talking blowhard felony at D/s - which will only prove one thing, "death and taxes"! And we see examples of the "50yo dom who's a walking/talking blowhard felony at D/s" every day here on collarme so again your case doesn't stand up. Looking at threads I don't think you could show anything other than 40 and 50 years cause the most problems. I think that says less about 40 and 50 year old dominants than it does about the self selected sample of who posts but there is no evidence that young = incompetent or that old = more skilled. quote: But in a general sense where I don't know every single individual or dynamic out there, and neither does anyone else, I'd trust the average 50yo over a 20yo dom any day and I hold doms to a higher standard than subs because they're the ones tasked with being in charge, in control and the safety officer during a scene. To someone else, it may be just a "sack of 'taters" and I couldn't care less; their opinion isn't my opinion. Your profile states you aren't active in any organized BDSM scene and even if you were, it would pale next to my and others experience who post here. I live near SF and we have a bdsm event that draws over 10,000 people. I have owned public dungeons, run groups, attended events in multiple cities, I have been to het events, femme dom events, gay events, pan sexual events etc. I have seen a LOT of dominants of all ages. Age does NOT make or break someone as a dominant, skill and aptitude do and those traits are clearly not age specific.

jdrake -> RE: I have a theory... (7/16/2007 12:25:24 PM)
The most fucked up', abusive, and dysfunctional dominants I know are "older men" . It is certainly the case that I'm far more fucked up and abusive now than I was five years ago. I like to think I'll be more fucked up and abusive in ten years. In general, I have not gotten any complaints from my submissives. But perhaps that really isn't what you wanted to hear. Age and treachery will be youth and enthusiasm two falls out of three and the third one will get ruled out on a technicality....

Grlwithboy -> RE: I have a theory... (7/16/2007 12:44:00 PM)
The best needles I ever had stuck in my ass were put there by a 23 year old female SUB who had needles in her ass zillions of times and learned how to do it from the people who did it to her because she's a giver and likes to give pleasure to other people. I trust her a hell of a lot more than someoe whose claim to running the scene well is that he/she is 50.

aSlavesLife -> RE: I have a theory... (7/16/2007 6:58:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael I live near SF and we have a bdsm event that draws over 10,000 people. I have owned public dungeons, run groups, attended events in multiple cities, I have been to het events, femme dom events, gay events, pan sexual events etc. I have seen a LOT of dominants of all ages. Age does NOT make or break someone as a dominant, skill and aptitude do and those traits are clearly not age specific. Michael, I have a couple of questions about this that I would like to ask. First question I didn't cut and paste context for, but will like to touch on anyway. How can you not equate age with experience in general? Veterans of virtually any field tend to command more respect because of their experience than do novices, true? This goes for sports, sciences, careers, and other aspects of life. While this is a generalization, and there are rare exceptions to the rule, this tends to be the case a majority of the time. Now on to the quoted section. I am quite curious as to how community involvement equates to an increase in skill. This is not meant to be insulting, but it has been my ( admittedly limited ) experience that group activities are far more concerned with theatrics than with honing any skills. Even so called workshops offer only a biased, limited insight that offers no adaptation for variation. How then can community involvement equate in any meaningful way to experience? I simply cannot grasp how putting in dozens of personal appearances can create aptitude. If anything it seems as though doing such would detract from experience as it eats into time that could be spent working with/on ones sub or slave. I have similar reservations about members of online communities that put in a dozen or more hours a day online while claiming to be involved in real time relationships and thinking that prolific posting makes them experts with end all-be all advice, but this is subject for another discussion entirely. Sincerely, Owner of slave L

MissJana -> RE: I have a theory... (7/16/2007 7:01:38 PM)
[sm=applause.gif] Bravo, well said.

Rover -> RE: I have a theory... (7/16/2007 7:25:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: aSlavesLife How can you not equate age with experience in general? Veterans of virtually any field tend to command more respect because of their experience than do novices, true? This goes for sports, sciences, careers, and other aspects of life. While this is a generalization, and there are rare exceptions to the rule, this tends to be the case a majority of the time. I would simply note that the mere passage of time does not imply that anyone has been "doing" anything. As is the case with any skill (choose golf, bowling, etc.), if you're doing nothing to improve the quality of your game then you'd have no expectation that your game would improve. The weekend golfer's or bowler's skill level remains reasonably static throughout their lives. And since we're talking generalizations vs. exceptions, the rule of thumb is that people do nothing over the years to improve their skills, including folks engaged in BDSM. Just as the vast majority of golfers or bowlers do not take lessons or devote regular time for practice. quote: am quite curious as to how community involvement equates to an increase in skill. This is not meant to be insulting, but it has been my ( admittedly limited ) experience that group activities are far more concerned with theatrics than with honing any skills. Even so called workshops offer only a biased, limited insight that offers no adaptation for variation. How then can community involvement equate in any meaningful way to experience? First of all, anyone who exposes themselves to more increases their experience(s). That's self-explanatory. As for your experiences with workshops (you attended a few and now have some experience with them, which is more than those who did not attend can say... see how that works) I'd say they were more the exception than the rule, in my experience (which is a tad more than "limited"). Almost invariably, the workshops I have attended stress variety, variation, adaptation, etc. Most that involve a skill set (say flogging for example) include hands-on instruction, and suggestions on how to further your skill level via practice at home, alone or with a willing victim... errr... helper. In point of fact, I have found very little in the way of "theatrics" at workshops, demos, etc. Perhaps that was a poor choice of words that don't convey the message you intended to send. If you have discovered how to become proficient at any skill set without the use of time and practice, you'll have made a momentus discovery that will benefit all of mankind in untold ways. And on a personal note, I can ditch these danged tapes I play at night to teach me Spanish... they aren't doing me any good at all. John

Grlwithboy -> RE: I have a theory... (7/16/2007 8:51:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: aSlavesLife quote: ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael I live near SF and we have a bdsm event that draws over 10,000 people. I have owned public dungeons, run groups, attended events in multiple cities, I have been to het events, femme dom events, gay events, pan sexual events etc. I have seen a LOT of dominants of all ages. Age does NOT make or break someone as a dominant, skill and aptitude do and those traits are clearly not age specific. Michael, I have a couple of questions about this that I would like to ask. First question I didn't cut and paste context for, but will like to touch on anyway. How can you not equate age with experience in general? Veterans of virtually any field tend to command more respect because of their experience than do novices, true? This goes for sports, sciences, careers, and other aspects of life. While this is a generalization, and there are rare exceptions to the rule, this tends to be the case a majority of the time. Now on to the quoted section. I am quite curious as to how community involvement equates to an increase in skill. This is not meant to be insulting, but it has been my ( admittedly limited ) experience that group activities are far more concerned with theatrics than with honing any skills. Even so called workshops offer only a biased, limited insight that offers no adaptation for variation. How then can community involvement equate in any meaningful way to experience? I simply cannot grasp how putting in dozens of personal appearances can create aptitude. If anything it seems as though doing such would detract from experience as it eats into time that could be spent working with/on ones sub or slave. I have similar reservations about members of online communities that put in a dozen or more hours a day online while claiming to be involved in real time relationships and thinking that prolific posting makes them experts with end all-be all advice, but this is subject for another discussion entirely. Sincerely, Owner of slave L I've not experienced a "biased inflexible superficial" kind of learning in workshops. But most of my workshop attendance has been among rope bondage people - I think a lot of the people in that community, while it has its own quirks, tend to be very in-depth in their transmission of technical information and their desire for same.

SimplyMichael -> RE: I have a theory... (7/16/2007 11:24:21 PM)
slave'slife, Perhaps I wasn't clear. Focus is equating age with experience and I am countering that. Your example of a career is good except few of us go to college to get book learning and at 24 become certified perverts and gather bdsm experience five days a week. Focus is claiming that age almost always equals a skilled dominant and is a universal statement. I called that statement as bullshit based on my far broader and more experienced viewpoint and stated why my opinion was far more valid than his. I never equated being involved in the community equates experience as you can see from above, but it is an interesting question. There are marriages where people were virgins when they got married but few of us would prefer that. Same goes for involvement in the scene, it is an enriching experience but certainly not a required one. I would always prefer to see how others do things and learn from them than to stumble around in the dark, others prefer to do things untainted by the ways of others. Both paths are as valid as you make them. That said, I have learned a great deal about skill by being in the scene. What I have learned about relationships I have largely learned on my own.

Focus50 -> RE: I have a theory... (7/17/2007 2:48:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rover To begin, let's observe that you don't even make the pretense of discussing the issue. I don't recall that I'm prone to meltdowns, either public or private. But there is always a useful purpose in confronting fantasy portrayed as reality for the benefit of those who are reading along. There is a meaningful difference between online theory and real time practicality. You might be in a better position to judge that for yourself if you had experience beyond the theoretical. That's not a denigration, just a statement of fact. I know you'll endeavor to turn this into a flame war, as you do with every disagreement you have with people. And truth be known, I may from time to time oblige you for my own entertainment. That still does not rise to the level of a "useful purpose". I've offered my opinion to the OP and I'll assume you have, too! So what is this "discussing the issue" charge you now level at me? The flippant "sack of 'taters" comment on 20yo doms - that was your version of discussion? That's an example of your "real time" experience coming to the fore? lmao Exactly how can I be the one turning anything into a flame war when all I'm doing is defending against your attack. If you don't like copping a fat lip, stop taking a swing at people trying to mind their own business. Of course Americans didn't understand that in Vietnam and they don't now in Iraq so I'll make some allowances for your ignorance this time.... But the strutting rhetoric - too funny.... Encore! Focus.

Focus50 -> RE: I have a theory... (7/17/2007 2:59:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Grlwithboy The best needles I ever had stuck in my ass were put there by a 23 year old female SUB who had needles in her ass zillions of times and learned how to do it from the people who did it to her because she's a giver and likes to give pleasure to other people. I trust her a hell of a lot more than someoe whose claim to running the scene well is that he/she is 50. I guess that makes you the "whiz".... :-) Like I said, death and taxes! Focus.

Focus50 -> RE: I have a theory... (7/17/2007 3:13:04 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael Focus50, The most fucked up, abusive, and dysfunctional dominants I know are "older men" . The most screwed up BDSM group I know of is run by an older male dominant. The difference I see "on average" between older and younger dominants is younger ones tend to fuck up their partners, older ones seem to want to fuck up entire communities. quote: You'd have no problems being bound and blindfolded etc and at the whim of a 20yo dom about to attempt his first experience with needle play or something? Even his 3rd attempt at it? You'd trust him not to panic and act responsibly if something went wrong? And would you not have more confidence if it were a 50yo dom with a 20yo sub newbie? Stupid example as a simple skill can be learned by anyone. Needle play isn't complicated, the army has 18 year old medics who do far more. It does carry higher risk but there is nothing intrinsic about a 50 year old handling a needle that makes is any less risky. In addition, the age thing is a red herring, if you asked her if she would want to be tied up by someone skinnier and shorter than here she would probably decline as well. Age, like size carries a PERCIEVED power but that is vastly different than the REAL power you are trying to state it does. quote: Look, anyone can pull out specific examples to prove any point they like - death and taxes are still the only certainties in life. It probably won't be long before some whiz posts of an 18yo dom they know who is 99% trustworthy, competent and reliable etc while they equally know a 50yo dom who's a walking/talking blowhard felony at D/s - which will only prove one thing, "death and taxes"! And we see examples of the "50yo dom who's a walking/talking blowhard felony at D/s" every day here on collarme so again your case doesn't stand up. Looking at threads I don't think you could show anything other than 40 and 50 years cause the most problems. I think that says less about 40 and 50 year old dominants than it does about the self selected sample of who posts but there is no evidence that young = incompetent or that old = more skilled. quote: But in a general sense where I don't know every single individual or dynamic out there, and neither does anyone else, I'd trust the average 50yo over a 20yo dom any day and I hold doms to a higher standard than subs because they're the ones tasked with being in charge, in control and the safety officer during a scene. To someone else, it may be just a "sack of 'taters" and I couldn't care less; their opinion isn't my opinion. Your profile states you aren't active in any organized BDSM scene and even if you were, it would pale next to my and others experience who post here. I live near SF and we have a bdsm event that draws over 10,000 people. I have owned public dungeons, run groups, attended events in multiple cities, I have been to het events, femme dom events, gay events, pan sexual events etc. I have seen a LOT of dominants of all ages. Age does NOT make or break someone as a dominant, skill and aptitude do and those traits are clearly not age specific. Well your obvious bias against anyone over 40 kinda puts all your reasoning in perspective here. No issues there. Just curious - you're getting younger and/or acquiring less as the years go by? But to review, it's all in the "dick measuring" or as you Americans might say, how far or high you can piss? I'm with ya now.... Focus.

Rover -> RE: I have a theory... (7/17/2007 4:00:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Focus50 quote: ORIGINAL: Rover To begin, let's observe that you don't even make the pretense of discussing the issue. I don't recall that I'm prone to meltdowns, either public or private. But there is always a useful purpose in confronting fantasy portrayed as reality for the benefit of those who are reading along. There is a meaningful difference between online theory and real time practicality. You might be in a better position to judge that for yourself if you had experience beyond the theoretical. That's not a denigration, just a statement of fact. I know you'll endeavor to turn this into a flame war, as you do with every disagreement you have with people. And truth be known, I may from time to time oblige you for my own entertainment. That still does not rise to the level of a "useful purpose". I've offered my opinion to the OP and I'll assume you have, too! So what is this "discussing the issue" charge you now level at me? The flippant "sack of 'taters" comment on 20yo doms - that was your version of discussion? That's an example of your "real time" experience coming to the fore? lmao It's a shame you didn't recognize that I was sincerely discussing the issue. When you said: quote: in theory a 20yo sub need only do as she is told by her dom, with arguably the only real decision she need make is deciding who that dom is. I made the observation that she would be nothing more than a sack of taters. Sacks of taters just sit there. They do nothing on their own. They're dead weight. The analogy of the 20 year old submissive you mentioned to a "sack of taters" is an apt one, in my opinion. It's not a flippant remark as you assert, and yes, it is an example of my real time experience in which I've learned that people respond favorably to analogies, humor, and everyday things they can relate to. You may not find value in that, but then you aren't learning anything either. quote: Exactly how can I be the one turning anything into a flame war when all I'm doing is defending against your attack. Forgive me, but if you consider a "sack of taters" to be a personal attack, then what shall you think if someone were to mention a bushel of corn, or a peck of wheat? Perhaps you should arm yourself with fresh fruits and start an arms race. quote: If you don't like copping a fat lip, stop taking a swing at people trying to mind their own business. Of course Americans didn't understand that in Vietnam and they don't now in Iraq so I'll make some allowances for your ignorance this time.... I wasn't taking a swing at you. Perhaps in this instance you were being overly sensitive? I don't know the value of bringing politics into this, but you might consider the "Off Topic" section where you'll find an interested audience. And while there are plenty of people that disagree with me, even dislike me, I don't think many would say that I'm ignorant of the subjects I choose to discuss. Assuming you're using the term correctly. Good luck to you with that chip on your shoulder. John

aSlavesLife -> RE: I have a theory... (7/17/2007 5:13:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael slave'slife, Perhaps I wasn't clear. Focus is equating age with experience and I am countering that. Your example of a career is good except few of us go to college to get book learning and at 24 become certified perverts and gather bdsm experience five days a week. Focus is claiming that age almost always equals a skilled dominant and is a universal statement. I called that statement as bullshit based on my far broader and more experienced viewpoint and stated why my opinion was far more valid than his. I never equated being involved in the community equates experience as you can see from above, but it is an interesting question. There are marriages where people were virgins when they got married but few of us would prefer that. Same goes for involvement in the scene, it is an enriching experience but certainly not a required one. I would always prefer to see how others do things and learn from them than to stumble around in the dark, others prefer to do things untainted by the ways of others. Both paths are as valid as you make them. That said, I have learned a great deal about skill by being in the scene. What I have learned about relationships I have largely learned on my own. Michael, Thanks very much for your reply. I probably should have read your first post a third time to get a better feel of it. In light of your clarification I see no fault in your reasoning and appreciate your taking the time to respond.

Corve -> RE: I have a theory... (7/17/2007 7:13:48 AM)
Don't kid yourself. Your share 99% of the same DNA as a chimp. Look it up if you do not believe me. [image]http://www.collarchat.com/micons/m28.gif[/image]

palerose -> RE: I have a theory... (7/17/2007 7:16:25 AM)
More years behind you does not equal more experience. Neither does being younger equal less experience. In my opinion, as a beginner, I would not choose a Dom of my own age. My personal reasons against having a younger Dom are nothing to do with their experience in the BDSM world. It is to do with the flippant mentality of youth. I want someone who knows what he wants and has the belief in his own convictions (and as such somone whos convictions I can believe in) to take on the repsonsibility of ownership over another person. Something which I believe comes with age as you gain more security in yourself and in your life. Perhaps these things don't come with age, but if not the older people I know are putting on a damn good show. PR x PR x

Grlwithboy -> RE: I have a theory... (7/17/2007 8:59:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Focus50 quote: ORIGINAL: Grlwithboy The best needles I ever had stuck in my ass were put there by a 23 year old female SUB who had needles in her ass zillions of times and learned how to do it from the people who did it to her because she's a giver and likes to give pleasure to other people. I trust her a hell of a lot more than someoe whose claim to running the scene well is that he/she is 50. I guess that makes you the "whiz".... :-) Like I said, death and taxes! Focus. Excuse me, change her occupation to "phlebotomist" for the sake of argument. She's still 23. And in the red corner we have a 50 year old woman whose expertise is "I'm 50." Yes, I'm a veritable savant.

SimplyMichael -> RE: I have a theory... (7/17/2007 10:52:46 AM)
I suggest people read the OPs profile which I almost always do before responding to a thread and regret not doing it this time.

TallDarkAndWitty -> RE: I have a theory... (7/17/2007 11:19:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rover peck of wheat Did you really just say *peck of wheat!?!?! I am outta here...or to quote the OP: quote:* ORIGINAL: palerose I'm gonna stear clear of posting on forums for a while. Taggard

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