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RE: What should America do? - 7/15/2007 3:14:39 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline 		i stand corrected on the other side:

get rid of all laws that fly under the "color" of law and replace the constitution building new law within its guidelines.

should have read as:

get rid of all laws that fly under the "color" of law and replace them within the  constitution building new law within its guidelines.




_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

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Profile   Post #: 61
RE: What should America do? - 7/15/2007 4:12:24 PM   
subfever


Posts: 2895
Joined: 5/22/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

Do you see any "us vs them" existing? Or is it 100% fabricated by the powers that be?


I don't see 100% fabrication, but I do see primarily fabrication.

(in reply to Level)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: What should America do? - 7/15/2007 4:14:15 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Level
Isolation, or global involvement? .



      I think a global approach is inevitable, but I'm taking a very long term view when I say that.  In the shorter run (say, our lifetimes) I think it's better for the US to stay involved, give developing economies a chance to catch a piece of our markets, greasing the palm of the invisible hand, so to speak.  That may not be possible.

      If we withdraw from the ME, leaving chaos in our wake, I believe that will force us into a period of isolation.  I have no doubts the violence would follow us home, probably leading to a national mood of hostile xenophobia.  In a tighter economic situation, regions of the world that depend on our aid for survival are going to collapse (say goodbye to Africa).  Either by ourselves, or in some sort of union with Canada and Mexico, we would remain a superpower.  Eventually, we'd get sucked into a war and come back out.


      As to the question of systems, I think the evils, exploitations and idiotic blunders of free enterprise and capitalism at least reward innovation, while the evils, exploitations and idiotic blunders of a managed economy breed stagnation and tyranny.

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If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


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RE: What should America do? - 7/15/2007 4:19:05 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

If we withdraw from the ME, leaving chaos in our wake,


No, No, No.

It is the US's PRESENCE in the ME which is leaving chaos in it's wake.



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

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Profile   Post #: 64
RE: What should America do? - 7/15/2007 4:28:41 PM   
UtopianRanger


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NavyDDG54

The UN is a worthless and corrupt organization with no real power to get anything done. you have 5 countries all with veto power that are so completely opposite of each other(except the US and Britain) that the security council is useless.  And the UN is a racist, biased, and corrupt organization. without the balls to do what has to be done. They think that the terrorists will start behaving because the UN asked them to.
This is what America should do. Withdraw from the UN and NATO. Strengthen our alliances with key allies, UK, Israel, Germany, Japan, Australia, and Canada. While at the same time work as establish a new NATO, the North American Treaty Organization. Just the US, Canada, Mexico, and the various islands. Solidfy ourserlves. while at the same time continuing to take the battle in the war on terror overseas. we CANNOT afford to fight the war in America. The damage would be too great.  I would rather some other country get destroyed by the fighting that America. That may be callous and harsh, but I am an American. I would rather people that I dont know die, then my friends and family.
We need to counter the EU. that is where my new "NATO" comes in. We need to strengthen the North American economies. One way to do that is so further solidy our alliance with Japan.  The US cannot sit idly by, we NEED to go Global. We are the most powerful and influential country on the planet, but we dont use the full scope of our power and influence. We need to. America needs to become united at home. Debate in politics is good. But not when it's done down party lines. When the libs refuse to consider anything that Bush says and vice versa we are not functioning. We have to be able compromise. And we need to use our power and our influence to further our own interests.  America flourished the most when we didnt give a damn what Europe thought. We did what we wanted, when we wanted, how we wanted. And America propsered.  Since we started catering to the liberal whining coming out of Europe we started downward.  We need to become America again. The exotic land of the free, the name that strikes fear into our enemies, and keeps new ones from popping up.



Damn bra....For a guy who looks so relaxed, sitting there with those stately wire frames, you're pretty gun-ho! But then again you're on a boat, huh -? I think anyone who’s as pumped-up as you, should be in the hot sand where the action is.

I realize you're only twenty-two...but I'm thinking you might wanna seriously consider a lateral transfer into a Marine O3 unit so you can take a few ''sponge'' baths----then come come back and tell us what you think.





- R

< Message edited by UtopianRanger -- 7/15/2007 4:41:18 PM >

_____________________________

"If you are going to win any battle, you have to do one thing. You have to make the mind run the body. Never let the body tell the mind what to do... the body is never tired if the mind is not tired."

-General George S. Patton


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Profile   Post #: 65
RE: What should America do? - 7/15/2007 4:53:52 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		I think the only people who "want" globalisation are in big corporations, the very wealthy and some in Washington.
If you ask the man in the street they certainly don't want it!
Put it on the ballot and see what the American People say about it!
Of course they wouldn't do that because they already know what the answer would be.
All this Interventionism just isn't working out too good, is it?
Troops in 130 countries, "foreign aid" going to more than 130 different countries, the left whining that other countries "don't like us" etc.
(These are the same people who want us (out) of Iraq but (into) Darfur!)
Then, there's the law of "supply and demand". We REALLY don't need anymore automobile companies starting up.
Isolation doesn't always work but Intervention seems to piss everyone off.
The advice that your Mother gave you to "mind your own bee'swax" is I think very good advice.
Then again there's Job Descriptions in govt.
A lot of what the Federal govt. does just isn't a part of their Job Description.
And as others in here have said I really do think that The People need to take a more active role in *OUR* govt!
I keep hearing that we have "interests" in S, Korea, Formosa etc but I strongly suspect that they mean that Corporations have "interests" in foreign countries, not the American People.
I have no "interests" in S. Korea, does anyone on this site?
Of course they have "interests" in the U.S. i.e. having their "Anchor Babies" here in case "something happens" they and their 300 "cousins" can flee to the U.S.
And that "Anchor Baby" stuff needs to end and it should be retroactive to 1986.
Lots of foreign countries re always looking to the U.S. for "what will they DO for us" or "what will they GIVE us."
That's just that welfare mentality on an international scale.
If a country can't get off U.S. "foreign aid" after FIFTY YEARS that tells me that it doesn't work.

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Profile   Post #: 66
RE: What should America do? - 7/15/2007 4:59:35 PM   
cuddleheart50


Posts: 9718
Joined: 2/20/2006
From: Kentucky
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LeMis

quote:

ORIGINAL: cuddleheart50

sooooooooooooo?


sooo.... what do YOU think America should do cuddleheart? 

I think America should take the best of both sides and combine them as best as possible.  There is no one perfect "twue" answer so it's a trick question, lol.

Actually the answers are just each person's opinions, there is no right or wtong answer.




I really don't think about it either way, casue no matter what I think....nothing is going to be done anyway....sooooo there!

_____________________________

Dance like no one is watching,
Sing like no one is listening.
Love like you've never been hurt
and live like it's heaven on Earth.


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Profile   Post #: 67
RE: What should America do? - 7/15/2007 6:16:32 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline 		i think the only reason we have interest in a lot of places is corporate or strategic, or in the case of the ME "oil"

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: What should America do? - 7/15/2007 6:21:46 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic
If we withdraw from the ME, leaving chaos in our wake


we created it by being there and supplying isreal with nukes and f16's and now this invasion and occupation of their country(ies).

Problem is that the airhead flag wavers never learn and they continue to make the same mistakes over and over.  See how many of them know squat about history?  All they know is lets get the mutha fuckas!  Gw said they were bad guys!  Whgen not even the fbi had binladen wanted in connection with the wtc yet "supposedly" alqaeda are the evil ones.  really?  morelike the cialqaeda.  Why not just buy them off like we do everything else? heck we can write money all day.....and night if we have to!  It only costs paper.  LOL

< Message edited by Real0ne -- 7/15/2007 6:24:16 PM >

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: What should America do? - 7/15/2007 6:43:53 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline 		 
What exactly is the threat to the United States from North Korea?

Sinergy

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"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


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RE: What should America do? - 7/15/2007 6:56:32 PM   
DSwriter


Posts: 39
Joined: 2/14/2007
From: New Hope, PA
Status: offline 		I think the U.S. needs to start with an apology to the people of Iraq.

Imposing a democracy through military force, without even bothering to understand the culture in the region, has royally screwed up an entire country, and started a chain of events that has led to the deaths of thousands of innocent men, women and children.  As well as displaced millions more.

The Republicans have become the party of imperialism and big business.  If the Democrats would champion individual rights and come up with cohesive strategy for partitioning the country and bringing our troops home - they could sweep the elections.

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Profile   Post #: 71
RE: What should America do? - 7/15/2007 6:59:20 PM   
michaelOfGeorgia


Posts: 4253
Status: offline 		this is only my opinion, but the USA is coming off as nothing more than global bullies and forcing their ideals on the world, whether they want it or not.

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RE: What should America do? - 7/15/2007 7:00:54 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic
If we withdraw from the ME, leaving chaos in our wake


we created it by being there and supplying isreal with nukes and f16's and now this invasion and occupation of their country(ies).




        Our steps and mis-steps in the region over this century and the last certainly played a role creating the overall situation, Real, but I'm not going to accept that it's all our fault. 

        Are you suggesting that if we simply leave, that solves the problem?

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: What should America do? - 7/15/2007 7:04:37 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DSwriter

I think the U.S. needs to start with an apology to the people of Iraq.

Imposing a democracy through military force, without even bothering to understand the culture in the region, has royally screwed up an entire country, and started a chain of events that has led to the deaths of thousands of innocent men, women and children.  As well as displaced millions more.

The Republicans have become the party of imperialism and big business.  If the Democrats would champion individual rights and come up with cohesive strategy for partitioning the country and bringing our troops home - they could sweep the elections.


Love it.

The Republicans fuck things up.

Now the Democrats are supposed to waltz in and clean up the mess.

I have a better idea, why dont we freeze the assets of Halliburton, everybody in the current administration, everybody who voted to authorize the invasion of Iraq, etc.

After we provide (from that money) what our government is contractually obligated to provide to the volunteer soldiers exiled there, we give the rest of the money to the Iraqis with a big bow, box of chocolates, and a "We're sorry" letter.  This is hand delivered to them by the Neo-cons, who go to Baghdad with a nice one-way ticket. 

Assuming they are as capable of surviving and making things work as they say they are, finding a job and buying themselves a nice plane ticket home should not be a problem.  Of course, with the border they did not bother to secure, they can waltz back over the border from Mexico and learn how to pick strawberries for 3 dollars a day.

Everybody wins, the neo-cons learn self-sufficiency and a work ethic, the Iraqis have liquidity to rebuild their country, our soldiers are home and cared for, and the people who caused the mess are the ones who cleaned it up, and finally, the rest of us dont feel upset by what those cretins forced us to fix.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


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RE: What should America do? - 7/15/2007 7:19:16 PM   
NavyDDG54


Posts: 203
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline 		When will you accept the fact that the only country in the middle east that is truly devoted to peace is ISRAEL! Even now they are about to release 250 murderers in the hopes of making peace with Fatah, a terrorist organization whose charter still calls for the destruction of Israel.  Yet Israel is releasing murderers, allowing terrorists to re-enter the west bank, and cancelling warrants on other terrorist leaders in hopes of peace.  Israel gave up the Sinai for peace. Israel gave up Gaza for peace. Israel offered the Golan Heights to Syria numrous times in the name of peace(Syria rejected the offers). Prime Minister Barak offered 98% of the West Bank, Gaza, Golan, right of return, and more to Arafat at Camp David in the name of peace(Arafat said no without a counter offer, and even the Israel hating Clinton administration admitted that Arafat sabotaged the conference) Israel goes out of their way to spare civilians, even if means given up a target of oppertunity on a terrorist leader.

Unfortunately the only way to establish peace in the middle east is through war. Assad, Ahmidenjab, Nasrallah, and the others must be removed from power BEFORE any peace can happen. Because as long as they wield power they will stop any peace from taking affect.

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RE: What should America do? - 7/15/2007 7:21:38 PM   
NavyDDG54


Posts: 203
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline 		Sinergy,
The threat to the US from N Korea is diminished now that he has backed down from his programs, but he has 3 different ICBM's capable of reaching Hawaii...Home of the US Pacific Fleet.  That is a threat

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Profile   Post #: 76
RE: What should America do? - 7/15/2007 7:27:23 PM   
NavyDDG54


Posts: 203
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline 		Utopian Ranger,
I've been to the gulf, I know it's not the same as being on the ground, but I was there when Iran illegally kidnapped the British sailors in an act of war, we were there 10 miles away from Iranian strike group, waiting for one side to start the next war. So I have an idea what it's like, and for the record I have volunteered to go to Iraq 3 times on an individual augmentation billet, only to be turned down because my ship was undermanned in my rate and they couldnt afford to let me go.

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RE: What should America do? - 7/15/2007 7:32:11 PM   
CuriousLord


Posts: 3911
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

just what we need: jump from the frying pan to the fire. go from a corrupt federal gov agenda to a more corrupt global gov. Hearing this kind of talk makes me happy i will be dead and gone in 40 more years. Nice way to cut off your nose despite your face.


Rather cynical, R0? (The expression, if I recall correctly, would be "cut off your nose to spite your face".)


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Profile   Post #: 78
RE: What should America do? - 7/15/2007 7:44:30 PM   
CuriousLord


Posts: 3911
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline 		Actually, to empathize with Real0ne's cynicism for a moment..

I might mention how much of a distaste I carry for party politics, though I'm sure the vulgarity in such an expression would be a bit extreme. I truly despise this "Republican" and "Democrat" partisan shit.

The Republicans are running the country. Largely, because they have the balls, but not quite the brains. They're doing a medocre job, which, apparently, isn't good enough right now.

The Democrats are the opposition party. And, by "opposition party", I truly mean that they are based in opposition. No coherent ideas or backbone. No ideas. All they can do is try to drive Republicans down far enough that they, being bookless, look great by contrast.

So the Republicans aren't doing a great job, the Democrats are just whiney bitches. And I'm sick of both of them and all the simple-minded twits who are so damned concerned with labelling individuals into nice little boxes that they can't be civil and reasonable for a moment.

(Excuse the profanity in satire. My point is in demonstration, that there's little to do beyond a shit-throwing contest. Everything that these politics touch seems to turn into something ugly.)

Though, if I must decide on one party or the other, right now, I'd go Republican. It's not exactly the popular thing to do, but I can't claim to care. Nor do they support most of my ideals. Still- they have the fortitude to do what's necessary. I perfer a loathesome fool to an immature brat.

Edit: PS-
My point to all of this was: stop insulting people off of party. Stop championing one party. Quit it with the freaking political bits and just do something. What? Anything! Just be productive instead of whiney.

< Message edited by CuriousLord -- 7/15/2007 8:01:51 PM >

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RE: What should America do? - 7/15/2007 7:58:48 PM   
LeMis


Posts: 9255
Joined: 9/24/2005
From: Florida
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cuddleheart50
quote:

ORIGINAL: LeMis
quote:

ORIGINAL: cuddleheart50
sooooooooooooo?

sooo.... what do YOU think America should do cuddleheart? 

I think America should take the best of both sides and combine them as best as possible.  There is no one perfect "twue" answer so it's a trick question, lol.

Actually the answers are just each person's opinions, there is no right or wtong answer.


I really don't think about it either way, casue no matter what I think....nothing is going to be done anyway....sooooo there!


Well.... pooh, that sounds like a cop out my best friend from Kentucky!  LOL!!! 


_____________________________

Make a mental note . . . oh, I see you're out of paper!
Make somebody happy. Mind your own business.

Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt. — Lincoln

(in reply to cuddleheart50)
Profile   Post #: 80
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