meatcleaver
Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: NorthernGent
At the risk of turning this into an anecdote frenzy, I have a few French friends who love it here and have no intention of going back - they prefer the opportunity to succeed or fail. Isn't London France's fourth largest city? i.e. 750,000 of them decamped to London.
You are right, the largest French ex-pat community is in the south of England because of French bureaucracy when it comes to business. I was going to set up my studio in France and ended up not doing so because of the bureaucracy. I was reluctant to leave because there are so many other good things about France but the fight with bureaucracy was too much.
quote:
ORIGINAL: NorthernGent
I love Germany, France bores me shitless. This far superior statement of "fact" is total bollocks - it depends on what indicator you use for superioity. If you use any of the following, then I'd put England well clear of the other two pretenders:
a) Band scene, music festivals
If all you like is indie guitar music you have a problem and I don't mean a problem because of the lack of festivals and venues for the music.
b) Sport e.g .football.
I haven't noticed Man Utd pulling many trees up in Europe, they are rather overshadowed by the tactical over reliant Liverpool. And from what I have seen of English football lately, most of the competition has gone out of it with the usual suspects finishing in the top four all the time like the old firm in Scotland. If the average fan can still afford to go to a game and many can't, the atomosphere is not as good as at many German games.
c) Beer and beer festivals.
I think you underestimate French beer. Most is brewed in the Alsace and is good for what it is. If you prefer bitter, then you are always going to be a home boy.
d) Employment opportunities and the chance to switch career/flexibility of the labour market
Again, I think you undersetimate France. I moved from Britain because career flexibility usually meant starting again right at the bottom but only if you are under 40. You're not there yet NG but don't count on too much flexibility over 40. Yes, Britain has lower unemployment but that is because people at the bottom earn really crap wages which is still better than being unemployed.
e) Spirit - we have more spirit than the other two put together, and that is a fact that doesn't need to be in capitals and have an exclamation mark on the end to make it true.
This is fantasy NG. I've lived in both countries and speak the languages so got into the thick of things. Believe me, this is so not true. Unless you mean the wide boy try anything spirit because life opportunities are so crap otherwise.
Then there are other areas where there's not much to choose between the three e.g. variety of food (regardless of perception, London and New York were recently voted the best two places to eat out for variety in the world by the industry, and Manchester is considered to be on almost an even keel with London), all three are beautiful countries, too.
I know about food in London if you want to pay London prices. Fortunately when I was there my wife's firm paid the bills. I still prefer Paris to London but that is apples and oranges. I had just eaten too many oranges in the ten years I lived in London.
The two areas where England is struggling are a) the pace of life (when compared with France, I'm not sure it's that different from Germany, and it's open to debate whether or not this is a negative), and b) anti-social behaviour, I'll give you that, too, but it's all swings and roundabouts, so it depends on what you value.
I like gritty cities and there is none better than Marseille and if you took an extended trip there and drowned yourself in the local life, you will find there is a lot of spirit in France. You might even start appreciating something more than indie guitar music.
As much as I like Germany, give me England every time, but that's just me, and as much I dislike the monarchy, our undemocratic house of lords and certain sections of our society, I'm more than happy to take the rough with the smooth over any other country - and I've seen a few of them.
Better the devil you know than the one you don't. I prefer taking the chance with the one I don't know but that is personal choice.
The thing that England has over all of these countries, and this includes Ireland, is that there is a buzz about England that the others just don't have. We have a vibrant youth and popular culture scene that the others aspire to, which is why you find the majority of people who leave this country tend to be 40+ and the majority of those who come here are 18-30 - they come here because England is more vibrant and offers them more opportunity in terms of employment and popular culture.
I originally left when I was 17 and couldn't wait to get out of the place. I view going back as a mistake in all things but money. My wife and I made a killing in London because she had a good job in the City and we bought a house which the price went up expedentially but I did notice how other people struggled and it made me remember why I left in the first place.
As for the democratic EU, you're in fantasy land. The English don't want to join the EU because a) it's undemocratic
You vote for the politicians that make the decisions in Europe. Just because British Prime Ministers go back to Britain after a summit, throw their hands in the air and say, it's not my fault guv! You shouldn't believe them, they signed the deal and didn't vetoe it. It is the politicians that you voted for that won't give the Parliament more powers because they don't want to give the Parliament power and legitimacy. British accusations of a undemocratic EU are bogus. The power is in the hands of the people you voted for, they are the problem and the solution to your accussation. Though I know British politicians don't discuss with their electrate what is really happening in the EU, they prefer to posture but don't blame Europeans for that.
and b) we want control over our own destiny. 'Fair enough if you ask me. Plus, we don't have the European outlook, we have our own style. There are other very good economic reasons, too, such as the problem of attempting to standardise interest rates and inflation in economies of varying strengths.
If you want to control your own destiny then why don't you leave the EU? My guess is because you are really scared to control your own destiny and playing at it is easier. At least other European countries are more honest and admit their prosperity is based on mutual cooperation.
Anyway, MeatCleaver, if you're adopted countries are so superior, then why concern yourself with England joining the EU? Surely you'd rather we keep out of it so we don't contaminate this European garden of eden? Maybe you can fool people who haven't been to Europe, but I know different.
I voted to join the EU in the referendum back in 73(?). The best thing Britain did.
You've been a tourist in Europe but have you ever lived and got to know another country, worked and spoke the language? I was born and brought up in Britain and spent 25 years of my life there, I know how shitty it can be for many Brits. I was born and brought up in shit and it was no fault of my parents. At least my daughters can go to decent schools which was impossible when we lived in London. Europe isn't a garden of Eden but Britain could learn a lot from Europe rather than looking over the Atlantic and inheriting all the same social problems.
I know how undemocratic Britain is because as a foreigner I have been able to take more part in civil life in other countries than I could in my own. I still have a sentimental attachment to the place because I have fond memories of friends and family but once I'm there for a week, enough is enough.
< Message edited by meatcleaver -- 7/19/2007 12:02:51 AM >
_____________________________
There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.
|
RE: Revival in Europe? - 
Profile
New Messages
No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages
Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages
Locked w/o New Messages
Post New Thread