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RE: submission a gift or a need? - 7/26/2007 2:38:03 PM   
ELUSIVE1


Posts: 536
Joined: 9/11/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

How about...

The Jelly of Submission comes together with my Peanut Butter of Dominance to make one really great Sandwich?
now THAT  I can relate too...throw some bananas on that and we can all get down to TCB....

thankyouverymuch!

(elvis has left the building)


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RE: submission agift or a need? - 7/26/2007 3:36:36 PM   
MasterMataeo


Posts: 215
Joined: 1/24/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: steviemichael

why does it have to be  any of the two you state ?
why cannot be just a natural of being !!



and whoms to say that it is not a natural state of being,, this is the way; we are and thus the natrual way of things,,  ,, if you want to look at t from the Primal Alpha/beta complex  it is a state of nautral being if you can accept that the need and desire are both primal


and in to response to
CP
hunger and lust on the same plate ,, think of the primal will ,, for most of our actions and thoughts are primal in nature ,, are they not?

MM

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RE: submission agift or a need? - 7/26/2007 4:04:28 PM   
twistedkytten


Posts: 240
Joined: 9/8/2006
Status: offline 		it is a very natural thing for this one, her need to serve is the same, as her need to breathe. and without either one, she would most surely die.

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RE: submission agift or a need? - 7/26/2007 6:25:20 PM   
bliss1


Posts: 497
Joined: 3/14/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

She would have to be able to reason and have the ability to understand that certain words such as "gift" do not in any way convey the actual definition that a sub feels about her "submission" if she has the ability to actually rationalize her position and have an understanding about the actually feelings she has towards her submission.  If you would like to explain how you think about your "gift" at night or how you have fantasized about your "gift" or when you have watched bdsm porn you say to your partner..."Wow look at the way he is receiving her "gift" it is sooooo fucking romantic!!"  Pleeeeez do....Nothing turns me on more than watching a sub masturbate over the idea of someone taking her gift....It is sooooo fucking hot!!!I'm dying to be convinced that it is not a need a want or a desire....It is a gift...Probably something similar to being an Irish witch....I would love to have an Irish witch under my control...No more stops at the liquor store to purchase a nice stout...I would simply have you conjure one up....Now that is a gift!

About the only thing I can conjure up - is my foot to the ass of a lazy (cough) dom.


Please remember the value of a gift can only be measured by the person receiving it....I wouldn't be surprised if every few years your gift would be the one that every family member re-wraps upon receiving and places under the tree waiting for the large guffaw when the next unsuspecting giftee opens it up...."Aww Fuck...It's bliss1's submission....Hey doesn't Sally have a new husband?....Just wait till next Christmas....I have the perfect gift for them."

Just for your information - Sally's new husband is gay.  But we do not talk about it - she is such a good woman.  As someone who has such a wonderful concept of an emotional gift - I am sure you will not pass this on.


_____________________________

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RE: submission a gift or a need? - 7/28/2007 4:27:30 AM   
CelticPrince


Posts: 3613
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Status: offline 		grins

The girl does have a style!

CP

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RE: submission agift or a need? - 7/28/2007 6:26:15 AM   
WhiplashSmile


Posts: 1472
Joined: 6/8/2004
Status: offline 		Submission can be viewed as a both a need or as a gift.  For some people they view it as a Need, some it's a burning desire not a need, for some it's a gift.  It all depends upon the people involved in the D/s relationship.  Some Masters/Doms view it as a Gift and some do not.   There is no correct one ultimate answer to this question.    It takes all kinds of different people with different views to make this world the interesting place it is.

Why don't seem people seem to get it that both these views and ideals can exist side by side in this world.   There are too many people that have single focused one way only thought processes.   What is right for one person may not be right for another. 

Like I said some view it as a Gift, Some people look at it as a need, some it's just plain optional in life.   You don't need to do D/s to be doing BDSM either. 


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RE: submission a gift or a need? - 7/28/2007 7:55:16 AM   
chey


Posts: 121
Joined: 7/1/2005
Status: offline 		Now I'm hungry for a peanut butter and jelly sandwich! *sighs*

I see submission just as a part of who I am, I never thought of it as a gift. Simply wanting someone dominant who I "fit" with on many levels to share it with.

Now where is my Trader Joe's blueberry jam?

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RE: submission a gift or a need? - 7/28/2007 8:01:17 AM   
domiguy


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Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline 		How is Trader Joe's blue berry jam....Most the stuff I get there I think kinda blows....It's rather inexpensive....And it kind of sucks...Which in esssence truly defeats the purpose...I buy some of their coffee, a cheese cake...Had some thai shrimp dumplings that were tolerable...Other than that, much of it seems rather bland.

Blue berry jam...going to have to try that.

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RE: submission a gift or a need? - 7/28/2007 8:18:50 AM   
WhiplashSmile


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Joined: 6/8/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: chey

Now I'm hungry for a peanut butter and jelly sandwich! *sighs*

I see submission just as a part of who I am, I never thought of it as a gift. Simply wanting someone dominant who I "fit" with on many levels to share it with.

Now where is my Trader Joe's blueberry jam?


Does Trader Joes spread nice and easy on the skin?  Is it easy to wash out of the hair too? Does it leave hard to remove stains from sheets as well, I hate getting those extra motel room charges for damages...

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RE: submission a gift or a need? - 7/28/2007 9:39:54 AM   
CelticPrince


Posts: 3613
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline 		Whip,

An easy out is not use it in motels!

CP

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RE: submission a gift or a need? - 7/28/2007 9:46:20 AM   
igor2003


Posts: 1718
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		I don't normally feel a need to assign a label to every little part of my life.  My submissiveness simply is what it is.  But when i stop to think about it and try to break it down, here is what i come up with:

Yes, i do have a desire to submit to a dominant woman.  Sometimes it is very much a "need" to submit.  Do i need to fulfill that need to live?  No.  But, it is something i do need, at least at times, to feel fulfilled or whole. 

What do i do to fulfill that need?  Do i throw myself at the feet of every dominant woman that comes along?  No.  I look for one that shares my interests and desires, and whose own needs are the counterpart to my own needs.  Then i might OFFER my submission to her.  She may or may not accept the offer of my submission.  If she does accept my offer (offering?) then is it not a gift that has been offered and accepted?  I think it is.

Unfortunately, in reading the posts here it looks like many people that don't like the term "gift" seem to think it is something that is given only once, but that is not true.  Submission is something that, once offered and accepted, is given minute after minute, hour after hour, day after day, continuously.  Once that gift is no longer received, or appreciated, you most certainly CAN stop giving it.

Think of it this way.  You have a water well.  Your neighbor doesn't.  But your neighbor wants to grow a garden.  So you give your neighbor water for his garden.  It is a gift.  Eventually your neighbor turns out to be a jerk...or maybe he just finishes growing his garden.  So you stop giving the water.  The water was most certainly a gift.  And you can certainly stop giving it.  Submission...or even dominance...works the same way.   It's not something in a little package that can be passed on or taken back, but something that is given continually until such time that it is no longer offered or received.

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RE: submission a gift or a need? - 7/28/2007 11:27:46 AM   
domiguy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: igor2003

.Think of it this way.  You have a water well.  Your neighbor doesn't.  But your neighbor wants to grow a garden.  So you give your neighbor water for his garden.  It is a gift.  Eventually your neighbor turns out to be a jerk...or maybe he just finishes growing his garden.  So you stop giving the water.  The water was most certainly a gift.  And you can certainly stop giving it.  Submission...or even dominance...works the same way.   It's not something in a little package that can be passed on or taken back, but something that is given continually until such time that it is no longer offered or received.


Okay last attempt on this topic...I hope this brings the matter to a close....Two descriptions. 

#1) regarding the above comments.....The first thing is that you wanted to grow a garden....You didn't have access to water...So immediately before anything else you had a need for the shit. The shit being water.

Imagine how I would feel if my neighbor came over bearing some tap water that he had poured into a gallon jug from the hose.....he knocks on the door and says, "Hey Domiguy, here is some water that I poured into this jug for you."
I would respond, "Why thank you Carl, I can't think of a more useless or meaningless thing that you could have chosen to give to me.....Carl, do you see that spigot thingy sticking out of the side of my house?....You know what happens when I turn that motherfucker counter clockwise?  Water comes out! It's like a fucking miracle!!! Water pours out by the motherfucking shitload!!! The shit is virtually free!!! You brought me over water!!! Big whooopy fucking dealy doo!!!....What next? Are you going to bring me over a jar of air?...You cheap fucking cocksucker!!!  I have no NEED for this shit!!!.....Now if you feel so inclined to send over your daughter, you know, the one who I understand just graduated from grad school...Now that would be something I could use.....Now Carl, why don't you take you and your gallon of tap water and get the fuck off of my porch before I spray you with the hose....You cock sucking, mother fucker!!!" (Domiguy slams the door)

#2)  We have two women.....#1) We will call subsusie #2) is Alice.

Subsusie says, I like bdsm....I like the D/s dynamic...I like being flogged...I enjoy being tied up...and whipped and degraded and blah blah blah yadda yadda yadda.....

Alice says she is capable of doing all of the things that subsusie enjoys but chooses not to indulge....Not because she is a prude...She is an incredibly intelligent and confident woman when it comes to all aspects of her sexuality.....It just doesn't do anything for her......Why?  Why wouldn't she pursue the same interests as subsusie?

Now regardless of what in the fuck subsusie wants to call it a gift an ache a fucking sandwich....Alice does not possess the need or desire to pursue bdsm....In a nutshell it is that fucking simple.

You first need to have the need, the desire or some sort of curiosity before you would ever contemplate pursuing wiitwd.

If this doesn't help....I have done all that I can here.

< Message edited by domiguy -- 7/28/2007 11:34:17 AM >

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RE: submission a gift or a need? - 7/28/2007 1:21:56 PM   
ELUSIVE1


Posts: 536
Joined: 9/11/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

quote:

ORIGINAL: igor2003

.Think of it this way.  You have a water well.  Your neighbor doesn't.  But your neighbor wants to grow a garden.  So you give your neighbor water for his garden.  It is a gift.  Eventually your neighbor turns out to be a jerk...or maybe he just finishes growing his garden.  So you stop giving the water.  The water was most certainly a gift.  And you can certainly stop giving it.  Submission...or even dominance...works the same way.   It's not something in a little package that can be passed on or taken back, but something that is given continually until such time that it is no longer offered or received.


Okay last attempt on this topic...I hope this brings the matter to a close....Two descriptions. 

#1) regarding the above comments.....The first thing is that you wanted to grow a garden....You didn't have access to water...So immediately before anything else you had a need for the shit. The shit being water.

Imagine how I would feel if my neighbor came over bearing some tap water that he had poured into a gallon jug from the hose.....he knocks on the door and says, "Hey Domiguy, here is some water that I poured into this jug for you."
I would respond, "Why thank you Carl, I can't think of a more useless or meaningless thing that you could have chosen to give to me.....Carl, do you see that spigot thingy sticking out of the side of my house?....You know what happens when I turn that motherfucker counter clockwise?  Water comes out! It's like a fucking miracle!!! Water pours out by the motherfucking shitload!!! The shit is virtually free!!! You brought me over water!!! Big whooopy fucking dealy doo!!!....What next? Are you going to bring me over a jar of air?...You cheap fucking cocksucker!!!  I have no NEED for this shit!!!.....Now if you feel so inclined to send over your daughter, you know, the one who I understand just graduated from grad school...Now that would be something I could use.....Now Carl, why don't you take you and your gallon of tap water and get the fuck off of my porch before I spray you with the hose....You cock sucking, mother fucker!!!" (Domiguy slams the door)

#2)  We have two women.....#1) We will call subsusie #2) is Alice.

Subsusie says, I like bdsm....I like the D/s dynamic...I like being flogged...I enjoy being tied up...and whipped and degraded and blah blah blah yadda yadda yadda.....

Alice says she is capable of doing all of the things that subsusie enjoys but chooses not to indulge....Not because she is a prude...She is an incredibly intelligent and confident woman when it comes to all aspects of her sexuality.....It just doesn't do anything for her......Why?  Why wouldn't she pursue the same interests as subsusie?

Now regardless of what in the fuck subsusie wants to call it a gift an ache a fucking sandwich....Alice does not possess the need or desire to pursue bdsm....In a nutshell it is that fucking simple.

You first need to have the need, the desire or some sort of curiosity before you would ever contemplate pursuing wiitwd.

If this doesn't help....I have done all that I can here.
domiguy--I am thinking that even with all you have done here, some folks just simply don't have the NEED, the Desire or the curiosity to see WIIWD the same way I do, and you do.....


_____________________________

"Words have no power to impress the mind without the exquisite horror of their reality"

*Poe
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http://users.adultspace.com/ELUSIVE1NC/


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RE: submission a gift or a need? - 7/29/2007 10:01:44 AM   
chey


Posts: 121
Joined: 7/1/2005
Status: offline 		Hmmm....Domiguy I have tried a few things from Trader Joes that were brought to me, have not had the opportunity to go shopping there myself.  They are blueberry preserves and I love them~and I'm not much of a jelly or jam kinda girl.

Whiplashsmile I have never had anyone smear them on me. Now if that changes I promise to report back and let you know!

As for need vs. gift, I think you've said all that you can say as well Domiguy! Some are going to see their submission as a gift and actually some dominant men will tell them it is a gift. To each his own! 




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RE: submission a gift or a need? - 7/29/2007 10:14:56 AM   
MasterMataeo


Posts: 215
Joined: 1/24/2007
Status: offline 		yum yum,, spread the Jam, Jelly and Preserves

MM

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Try anything Once, Twice if you like it, Three times to make sure, four makes it a habit, and five makes it's a fetish.


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RE: submission a gift or a need? - 7/29/2007 10:21:58 AM   
domiguy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: chey


As for need vs. gift, I think you've said all that you can say as well Domiguy! Some are going to see their submission as a gift and actually some dominant men will tell them it is a gift. To each his own! 

 

Those who do not agree will not be getting any of my blueberry preserves......And they will be getting the hose...."It says that it's a need or it gets the hose again."

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RE: submission a gift or a need? - 7/29/2007 10:29:27 AM   
MadRabbit


Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline 		How about we go to the library and browse threw a random selection of romance novels?

I wonder how many different analogies and descriptions we'll find where authors try and communicate the deep and complex emotion that is "love"?

Personally, I've read a lot of books in my short time on this planet and everyone describes or portrays the emotion that is "love" in a different way then the next.

In the end, I can only wonder "What is love really?". Who is right and who is wrong? How can we make sense of this thing called love when everyone seems to communicate and describe it a different way then the next?

The simplest answer is everyone feals "love" in a different way and expresses it in the best way possible to match how they feal it.

So...personally...when I read a thread like this...where people argue and dismiss other people's expressions of their submission...something that is not universally perceived like a cup of coffee or a warm bath, but is rather an unique part of an individuals soul...

...I find it all really silly.

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RE: submission a gift or a need? - 7/29/2007 1:52:16 PM   
MasterMataeo


Posts: 215
Joined: 1/24/2007
Status: offline 		but is our Dominance to them our gift to there need or just our need to give them our gift?


i want strawberryjam, jelly, and preserves,,,,,


MasterMataeo

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remember the Four corners: Communication, Honesty, Respect , and Trust

Try anything Once, Twice if you like it, Three times to make sure, four makes it a habit, and five makes it's a fetish.


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Profile   Post #: 138
RE: submission a gift or a need? - 7/29/2007 2:44:10 PM   
domiguy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: chey


As for need vs. gift, I think you've said all that you can say as well Domiguy! Some are going to see their submission as a gift and actually some dominant men will tell them it is a gift. To each his own! 


Any Dom that views a sub's submission as a gift is a complete pussy....Assholes each and every one of them....They put the sub, her submission and her pussy on a pedestal.

Those who view their submission as a gift are deeply mistaken.....If you are a total cunt then who would want your gift?  not many would place value on your submission unless of course you were hawt....Then it might be fun.
Regardless, the sub has an underlying need, desire etc to submit....Everything else is a spring board from the fact that she has reached that conclusion.

If a sub says her ultimate gift is her submission....Then she must be lacking in soooo many other areas.....Her submission albeit important is actually the least of my concerns....Is she sane? Is she intelligent?  Is she curious about the world around her? Can she understand and utilize common sense?  Do our personalities mesh? Is there a physical attraction? Is she compassionate? Is she self deprecating? Does she possess a sense of humor? How's her hygiene?

To find someone who possesses these characteristics and more is truly the gift. Her submissive "gifts" will never amount to squat if we cannot see eye to eye. And in reality, it is all just a matter of my as well as her needs being met.  Fuck the gift.

Read your romance novels if you choose....of course I will be waiting for when you make your next post, "Do all Doms poo?"

< Message edited by domiguy -- 7/29/2007 2:46:03 PM >

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RE: submission a gift or a need? - 7/29/2007 2:53:24 PM   
Stephann


Posts: 4214
Joined: 12/27/2006
From: Portland, OR
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

quote:

ORIGINAL: chey


As for need vs. gift, I think you've said all that you can say as well Domiguy! Some are going to see their submission as a gift and actually some dominant men will tell them it is a gift. To each his own! 


Any Dom that views a sub's submission as a gift is a complete pussy....Assholes each and every one of them....They put the sub, her submission and her pussy on a pedestal.

Those who view their submission as a gift are deeply mistaken.....If you are a total cunt then who would want your gift?  not many would place value on your submission unless of course you were hawt....Then it might be fun.
Regardless, the sub has an underlying need, desire etc to submit....Everything else is a spring board from the fact that she has reached that conclusion.

If a sub says her ultimate gift is her submission....Then she must be lacking in soooo many other areas.....Her submission albeit important is actually the least of my concerns....Is she sane? Is she intelligent?  Is she curious about the world around her? Can she understand and utilize common sense?  Do our personalities mesh? Is there a physical attraction? Is she compassionate? Is she self deprecating? Does she possess a sense of humor? How's her hygiene?

To find someone who possesses these characteristics and more is truly the gift. Her submissive "gifts" will never amount to squat if we cannot see eye to eye. And in reality, it is all just a matter of my as well as her needs being met.  Fuck the gift.

Read your romance novels if you choose....of course I will be waiting for when you make your next post, "Do all Doms poo?"


Ironically, I agree with both of you.

I think saying submission is a gift, is putting that submission and the submissive on a pedestal.  I also think some people want it that way.  There's no right or wrong to it, there's just reason and rhyme.  I can understand why, even if I don't think it's wise.

Stephan


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