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RE: submission agift or a need? - 7/23/2007 8:34:43 AM   
GhitaAmati


Posts: 3263
Joined: 5/30/2007
Status: offline 		what if its a really big box?? Ive got one here my stove came in I think I can fit into......can someone come duct tape it shut and put a bow on it for me?

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Sex without love is a meaningless experience, but as far as meaningless experiences go its pretty damn good.
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RE: submission agift or a need? - 7/23/2007 8:38:52 AM   
RCdc


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Status: offline 		FR -
 
Submission is a gift? If it is such a 'gift' -  how comes people can take it back so easily or return it used?  A gift is given forever - other than that, it is simple a token.
 
Peace
the.dark.

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love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

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RE: submission agift or a need? - 7/23/2007 8:43:53 AM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline 		The term gift is used by folks who want to dress this thing up like a bunny.  It is what it is...Whether you consider it as just being part of your make up a desire or a need.....It is not a gift.

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RE: submission agift or a need? - 7/23/2007 8:49:37 AM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

The term gift is used by folks who want to dress this thing up like a bunny.  It is what it is...Whether you consider it as just being part of your make up a desire or a need.....It is not a gift.


It may not be a gift in your circles and your relationships. With all respect for your opinions, you simply lack the power to decide what my submission is and isn't. As it has been said, and it makes a great deal of sense to me, my submission is a desire that I give to someone I think will take care of it and use it wisely.

There is room in this world for many varying opinions.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

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RE: submission agift or a need? - 7/23/2007 8:50:58 AM   
AquaticSub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

FR -
 
Submission is a gift? If it is such a 'gift' -  how comes people can take it back so easily or return it used?  A gift is given forever - other than that, it is simple a token.
 
Peace
the.dark.

As I already said, a gift of a living thing (human slaves count) are not always given forever. If a person given a pet rabbit abuses it then yes, it could (in fact should) be removed from them.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

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RE: submission agift or a need? - 7/23/2007 8:53:44 AM   
domiguy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

The term gift is used by folks who want to dress this thing up like a bunny.  It is what it is...Whether you consider it as just being part of your make up a desire or a need.....It is not a gift.


It may not be a gift in your circles and your relationships. With all respect for your opinions, you simply lack the power to decide what my submission is and isn't. As it has been said, and it makes a great deal of sense to me, my submission is a desire that I give to someone I think will take care of it and use it wisely.

There is room in this world for many varying opinions.


Whether you gift your shit away or not there is still the underlying desire or need....End of story.

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RE: submission agift or a need? - 7/23/2007 8:53:59 AM   
AquaticSub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

The problem aqua...Is do you ever think about your submission when you are unable to submit?...."Gift" is a poor choice of a word to actually describe the way you feel about your submission....Yes you give your ability to submit to another....I give you a dictionary...Beyond my gift of a dictionary I have no attachment to you or the book....It is a meaningless gesture.....Now if I was a compulsive dictionary giver and I found it to be pleasurable or some how satisfying to give dictionaries away....Then by giving away dictionaries I would be meeting a need or a desire of mine.

I hope this ends the debate.....It's cute in a vaginal way of thinking...But the term gift is wrong when discussing this topic....I'm glad I could clear this up for you and everyone else.



The term gift is wrong for you and yours. You lack the authority and insight to decide what is wrong for me and mine.

We use the term gift for the reasons we have stated over and over. We feel my submission to him and his dominance to me are blessings and gifts that enhance our lives. You do not have to agree with us. You do not have to feel the same way in your relationships.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

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Profile   Post #: 67
RE: submission agift or a need? - 7/23/2007 8:55:08 AM   
AquaticSub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

Whether you gift your shit away or not there is still the underlying desire or need....End of story.


There is both the need and the giving of my submission. It is my need but his gift from me, just as his dominance is a gift to me.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to domiguy)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: submission agift or a need? - 7/23/2007 8:55:47 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline 		Why does abuse have to come into the equasion?
 
If you give something and it is looked after or kept on a shelf - it remains there.  You can't just take a gift back once you give it because it doesn't suit you anymore and you can't give it back once you have no use for it anymore when you accepted it in the first place, not without either of you looking like an asshole.
 
Peace
the.dark.

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RC&dc


love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

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RE: submission agift or a need? - 7/23/2007 8:59:40 AM   
AquaticSub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

Why does abuse have to come into the equasion?
 
If you give something and it is looked after or kept on a shelf - it remains there.  You can't just take a gift back once you give it because it doesn't suit you anymore and you can't give it back once you have no use for it anymore when you accepted it in the first place, not without either of you looking like an asshole.
 
Peace
the.dark.

 
Generally one does not remove their submission unless there is a reason. Abuse, neglect, it really doesn't make a difference. Honestly, I'm sick of this debate. It's the way we view our exchange and it should be treated with the same respect as those who don't view it as such, particularly since it's not hurting anybody and it's certainly not implying in any way that anyone else is wrong.
 
But let me explain further: I can't "ungive" my submission. But as someone else on this thread has already said, I can stop giving it and leave if needed.
 
You don't have to agree. I really don't care if you do. But neither you or anyone else is going to change my mind, no matter how insulting this gets.

< Message edited by AquaticSub -- 7/23/2007 9:07:09 AM >

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to RCdc)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: submission gift or a need? - 7/23/2007 9:06:12 AM   
LATEXBABY64


Posts: 2107
Joined: 4/8/2004
Status: offline 		one thing in this lifestyle i have learned time and time again... is people are always redefining things.. they get in a tizzy about labels and then about how two people interact. so i use the automotive industry as a guide. you build a car from the ground up.
everything starts and ends somewhere. giving is this we all give to get. there is no such thing as for the love of nothing. everything is an investment ,time, money.. relationships. do not fool your self into thinking you never get anything back. if you do not get anything back it is time to move on. because it is the balance of life it is how things work.. other wise it is dysfunctional

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Profile   Post #: 71
RE: submission agift or a need? - 7/23/2007 9:09:04 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline
quote:

Generally one does not remove their submission unless there is a reason. Abuse, neglect, it really doesn't make a difference. Honestly, I'm sick of this debate. It's the way we view our exchange and it should be treated with the same respect as those who don't view it as such, particularly since it's not hurting anybody and it's certainly implying in any way that anyone else is wrong.
 
But let me explain further: I can't "ungive" my submission. But as someone else on this thread as already said, I can stop giving it and leave if needed.
 
You don't have to agree. I really don't care if you do. But neither you or anyone else is going to change my mind, no matter how insulting this gets.



I definately wasnt insulting you Aqua and I am appalled you think I was. I never said you were wrong and I never even posted to you so there was NOTHING personal to you in this post.  I simply made a question on the original question and then answered your question on the the abused bunny. With all due respect Aqua,  if you can't hold a discussion about it without stamping your feet then don't. You may be sick of this debate, then don't debate it - but if you took my post as a personal attack, then you are wrong and with all due respect, what you do in your relationship doesn't bother me in the slightest - just as you whether people agree or not doesn't bother you.
 
Peace
the.dark.

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RC&dc


love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

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RE: submission agift or a need? - 7/23/2007 9:09:25 AM   
domiguy


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Joined: 5/2/2006
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quote:

domiguy
So if Valyraen decided to find a ProstiSub because he felt you were not meeting his needs you would be cool with that?


quote:

AquaticSub
If he spoke with me about it first, possibly. If I had issue, it certainly wouldn't be because she was for pay. It would be that I would like the chance to fulfill the need first. However, he allows me to fulfill needs that he can not meet with other dominants so I wouldn't withhold it from him if I truly could not meet them.




Hmmmmm...So much for your gift theory.....It is a need....as per your own words.  Haven't you met other Doms to fill your needs or desires, that Valyraen was not experienced enough or comfortable with to personally administer?  I could be mistaken.  I don't really want to take the time to look.

Quit rambling on about nothing.....It is not a gift....Apologize and let's move on to a better topic....lol.


< Message edited by domiguy -- 7/23/2007 9:11:21 AM >

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RE: submission agift or a need? - 7/23/2007 9:12:09 AM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

I definately wasnt insulting you Aqua and I am appalled you think I was.

You weren't insulting me. I have simply been over this many times and others have been very insulting over this notion. That was not specifically at you and you only have to look over the thread to see where others have been insulting.
quote:


I never said you were wrong and I never even posted to you so there was NOTHING personal to you in this post.  I simply made a question on the original question and then answered your question on the the abused bunny. With all due respect Aqua,  if you can't hold a discussion about it without stamping your feet then don't. You may be sick of this debate, then don't debate it - but if you took my post as a personal attack, then you are wrong and with all due respect, what you do in your relationship doesn't bother me in the slightest - just as you whether people agree or not doesn't bother you.
 Peace
the.dark.

 
Again, that was not directed at you personally.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to RCdc)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: submission agift or a need? - 7/23/2007 9:15:53 AM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy





quote:

domiguy
So if Valyraen decided to find a ProstiSub because he felt you were not meeting his needs you would be cool with that?


quote:

AquaticSub
If he spoke with me about it first, possibly. If I had issue, it certainly wouldn't be because she was for pay. It would be that I would like the chance to fulfill the need first. However, he allows me to fulfill needs that he can not meet with other dominants so I wouldn't withhold it from him if I truly could not meet them.





Hmmmmm...So much for your gift theory.....It is a need....as per your own words.  Haven't you met other Doms to fill your needs or desires, that Valyraen was not experienced enough or comfortable with to personally administer?  I could be mistaken.  I don't really want to take the time to look.

Quit rambling on about nothing.....It is not a gift....Apologize and let's move on to a better topic....lol.




Domiguy, it is a need for me and a gift to him. No, Valyraen doesn't have the experience or desire to work on me with needles. He is allowing me to find someone who does. That does not diminish in any way my submission to him. He still feels my submission is a blessing and a gift that enhances his life, I still feel his dominance is a blessing and gift that enhances mine.

You will never change our minds just as I will never change yours.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to domiguy)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: submission agift or a need? - 7/23/2007 9:20:05 AM   
CelticPrince


Posts: 3613
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline 		DG,

grins, an interesting analogy there friend!

CP

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RE: submission agift or a need? - 7/23/2007 9:23:27 AM   
CelticPrince


Posts: 3613
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline 		Chuckles, AS your move!

CP

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Profile   Post #: 77
RE: submission agift or a need? - 7/23/2007 9:23:29 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline 		What you see and how you hold your relationship is entirely yours and V's way.
To some its a gift.
To some its not.
To some it isnt innate.

In the end - who the fuck cares?  Save the person you are in or embarking on a relationship with. Its good for a discussion, but it isn;t really one of those subjects that one needs to take or throw out as a personal insult.
Its one of those endless discussions like slave vs. sub or TPE or any number of fucked up ideas that are completely subjective.

For me and in my relationship, I am with the ThinkingKitten - submission is endogenous depending on the person and environment. But when it manifests, it is a need and a desire - that can only exist as long as it has its opposite.

Peace
the.dark.

< Message edited by Darcyandthedark -- 7/23/2007 9:35:46 AM >

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RC&dc


love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

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Profile   Post #: 78
RE: submission agift or a need? - 7/23/2007 9:31:12 AM   
domiguy


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Joined: 5/2/2006
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quote:

AquaSub

Domiguy, it is a need for me and a gift to him.


Since Valy didn't engage in the conversation at any point we really would have to take your qord on how he feels about all of this....Anywhoooo.....Like you finally stated said after countless tiresome posts.....IT IS A NEED FOR YOU!!!
 
You are becoming a tad bit tiresome in defending a position that you constantly through your own words contradict....Please don't carry on any further...It doesn't become you.

 


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Profile   Post #: 79
RE: submission agift or a need? - 7/23/2007 9:33:38 AM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark
Its one of those endless discussions like slave vs. sub or TPE or any number of fucked up ideas that are completely subjective.


I think that may be the most intelligent thing anyone has said on this thread so far.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to RCdc)
Profile   Post #: 80
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