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RE: submission agift or a need? - 7/23/2007 9:38:53 AM

AquaticSub

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quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

quote:

AquaSub

Domiguy, it is a need for me and a gift to him.

Since Valy didn't engage in the conversation at any point we really would have to take your qord on how he feels about all of this....Anywhoooo.....Like you finally stated said after countless tiresome posts.....IT IS A NEED FOR YOU!!!

You are becoming a tad bit tiresome in defending a position that you constantly through your own words contradict....Please don't carry on any further...It doesn't become you.

I don't see any contradiction. I don't need it the way Prop needs it. I certainly won't die if I can't serve, the way I would if I couldn't have water.

I need it the way I need my education. It's very important but I'll manage without it if I can't have it. Desire probably would be a better word since if we want to get techinical a need is something you can't live without. So I amend my statement slightly: To serve is a desire to me and my serving is a gift to him.

You don't agree. So what? You don't have to agree. But you simply aren't going to change our minds. Let's be adults and agree that adults can have differences of opinion.

< Message edited by AquaticSub -- 7/23/2007 9:40:07 AM >

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to domiguy)

Post #: 81

RE: submission agift or a need? - 7/23/2007 9:44:18 AM

domiguy

Posts: 12952
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I already have changed your mind....If I keep going I might be able to get you to gift me a blow job....We will let it end here....With the fact that I am right.....lol.

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Post #: 82

RE: submission agift or a need? - 7/23/2007 9:49:13 AM

Valyraen

Posts: 746
Joined: 2/14/2007
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Dear God, I love internet drama. Nothing like a quick circuit of the boards when I need a chuckle, since it seems like someone's always getting their panties in a twist nattering over some pointless triviality.

Seems like, as with most of the things about this lifestyle, the underlying motives behind submission are subjective, since we've all seen how well broad, sweeping generalizations have fared here. If these motives are subjective, what purpose does beating yet another horse to death about it do? Aside from provide entertainment to the bored, no purpose here that I can see. The hardliners in both camps are squaring off, people are interjecting the occasional comment on the side, and the rest of us (myself included) are just waiting for the next argumentative post.

Has any of this accomplished anything? Probably not... might have helped some solidify their own personal motivations behind submission, but there's no way of knowing.

So, enough. Why do any of us give a flying fuck about the way that other people conduct their private affairs? Moreover, why do we feel the need to force other people to accept our definitions - that are, once again, purely subjective?

Domi, if you feel the need to be right to validate something about yourself to you... more power to you, I suppose. Personally, I think it's kind of sad that you've devoted so much energy to something that, in the long run, is so meaningless.

Now, if you'll excuse me, Aqua and I are going to go take a walk and have a perfectly pleasant rest of the day, and I wish the same to all of you.

Valyraen

_____________________________

CM's Resident Fuzzy Kitteh

There is no creature more loving than a hungry cat.

Valyraen in ValyraenandAqua

(in reply to domiguy)

Post #: 83

RE: submission agift or a need? - 7/23/2007 9:59:00 AM

LATEXBABY64

Posts: 2107
Joined: 4/8/2004
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wow this thread like went south and beyond.... dead horse is right give it shock treatment or something. but you got to admit its better then a soap.. days of our subs.. a never ending battle of wit. wisdom and other stupid things lol

(in reply to Valyraen)

Post #: 84

RE: submission agift or a need? - 7/23/2007 10:16:28 AM

domiguy

Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Valyraen

Domi, if you feel the need to be right to validate something about yourself to you... more power to you, I suppose. Personally, I think it's kind of sad that you've devoted so much energy to something that, in the long run, is so meaningless.

Valyraen

Valyrean, there is a sub in question who pursued the same path...when consistently shown the errors in her thinking she plodded along undeterred...Since she is somewhat in your charge she might want to consider asking you in the future whether her posts have merit in lieu of a number of senseless posts that finally end with this statement....

quote:

Aqua
So I amend my statement slightly: To serve is a desire to me

I enjoy a good debate every now and again....Not that this was particularly satisfying....I had the time, albeit it was rather meaningless, but in the end logic and understanding prevailed.

It is one thing to argue a point it is quite another to hold on and defend a belief that has been proven false by one's own words.....If this is typical to the type of conversations or arguments that you have with Aqua....Your patience is astounding. I would consider it sad as to how much time you must devote to these types of situations.

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Post #: 85

RE: submission agift or a need? - 7/23/2007 10:24:53 AM

LATEXBABY64

Posts: 2107
Joined: 4/8/2004
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it is truely amazing how many people think they have a PhD in analyzing someones point of view.. lol Where else can you find a slew of mental health professionals... then on a bdsm message board never met so many panel of experts. i guess the point here is just take everything with a grain of salt and laugh about it and move on.

(in reply to domiguy)

Post #: 86

RE: submission agift or a need? - 7/23/2007 10:32:42 AM

Valyraen

Posts: 746
Joined: 2/14/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LATEXBABY64

it is truely amazing how many people think they have a PhD in analyzing someones point of view.. lol Where else can you find a slew of mental health professionals... then on a bdsm message board never met so many panel of experts. i guess the point here is just take everything with a grain of salt and laugh about it and move on.

*small bow* Domo.

(just because I'm a Kill Bill fan and so rarely have the opportunity to use that bit in conversation)

_____________________________

CM's Resident Fuzzy Kitteh

There is no creature more loving than a hungry cat.

Valyraen in ValyraenandAqua

(in reply to LATEXBABY64)

Post #: 87

RE: submission agift or a need? - 7/23/2007 10:35:01 AM

StellaByStarlite

Posts: 790
Joined: 2/10/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

quote:

ORIGINAL: GhitaAmati

Question....

I personally feel a "need" to submit...it is who I am inside..it is me. I see my submission as a gift, but one I only give to one person. Does it matter how I state it on my profile? Please dont see me as being dumb here...I admit I may be sometimes, but Im honestly curious this time, is there a difference in the semantics that much?

ghita~

People are going to tell you that you are being dumb. I agree with you though. I see a lot of the world as a gift. Every day with Valyraen is a gift. His ownership is a gift that enhances my life. Every day with my friends and family is a gift.

I guess, in my case, submission is more a preference then anything else. =) My husband and I don't "need" the dynamic as much as we prefer it because we're happier that way.

Our marriage... encompassing the commitment, the mutual goals, everything, is truely a gift. We try not to take it for granted, but life gets in the way sometimes. ;)

(in reply to AquaticSub)

Post #: 88

RE: submission agift or a need? - 7/23/2007 11:02:51 AM

Missokyst

Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
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I agree. I need to eat. I need to breathe. But submission for me is just the natural progression of being in a relationship. I don't need it to live. But when I have it, I thrive.
Kyst

quote:

ORIGINAL: StellaByStarlite
I guess, in my case, submission is more a preference then anything else. =) My husband and I don't "need" the dynamic as much as we prefer it because we're happier that way.

Our marriage... encompassing the commitment, the mutual goals, everything, is truely a gift. We try not to take it for granted, but life gets in the way sometimes. ;)

_____________________________

pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding ~Gibran, Kahlil

“The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for.”
― Bob Marley

(in reply to StellaByStarlite)

Post #: 89

RE: submission agift or a need? - 7/23/2007 11:18:43 AM

Azurenee

Posts: 9
Joined: 7/9/2007
Status: offline

I have lived for the last thirty years without One to whom I may submit. I'm still breathing, so if you want to split hairs I do not need to submit.

However, I wrote in my profile: I'm seeking a way to enhance my life, so that I may experience it fully. I have a full life, but not nearly as dimensional unless I am living out my need.

I can choose to call it need. I personally identify strongly with defining it as need, especially because it is something I feel compelled to do, by desire or otherwise.

_____________________________

Who breaks a butterfly upon a wheel? Yet let me flap this bug with gilded wings. This painted child of dirt that stinks and stings. Whose buzz the witty and the fair annoys. Yet wit ne'er tastes, and beauty ne'r enjoys…

Alexander Pope, 1735

(in reply to StellaByStarlite)

Post #: 90

RE: submission agift or a need? - 7/23/2007 11:20:41 AM

domiguy

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Joined: 5/2/2006
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It is better stated as being a "desire."

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Post #: 91

RE: submission agift or a need? - 7/23/2007 11:27:11 AM

Azurenee

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Joined: 7/9/2007
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Better is often the enemy of Best.

_____________________________

Who breaks a butterfly upon a wheel? Yet let me flap this bug with gilded wings. This painted child of dirt that stinks and stings. Whose buzz the witty and the fair annoys. Yet wit ne'er tastes, and beauty ne'r enjoys…

Alexander Pope, 1735

(in reply to domiguy)

Post #: 92

RE: submission agift or a need? - 7/23/2007 11:38:35 AM

LATEXBABY64

Posts: 2107
Joined: 4/8/2004
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though we weave a web of deceit among the words of which one speaks. for one has always found that we are like onions with layers to be pealed..

(in reply to Azurenee)

Post #: 93

RE: submission agift or a need? - 7/23/2007 11:46:57 AM

domiguy

Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Azurenee

Better is often the enemy of Best.

True...that in many situations someone might claim thay have something that is the best that soon someone will try and better.

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Post #: 94

RE: submission agift or a need? - 7/23/2007 11:47:03 AM

bliss1

Posts: 497
Joined: 3/14/2007
Status: offline

As a strong woman outside of my primary relationship for me to give any control is a step of trust - deep trust.
I enjoy being submissive with a Dom/Master. It is the greatest gift I can offer him (if you want to gift wrap me - find a gift bag, i'll fit better in that and I will im you the addy to mail me to).

Since it is not something I will give to any male coming down the road - it is a gift - and no I don't take it back until the relationship has run it's course and we agree that that is the way it will be.

_____________________________

Witch before, during, and after my coffee.

(in reply to LATEXBABY64)

Post #: 95

RE: submission agift or a need? - 7/23/2007 11:54:14 AM

CreativeDominant

Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ELUSIVE1

"gift of submission" -excuse me while I go puke...a gift is given,not taken back...how many 'submissives' still give their submission to the very first "Master" they had? please, take these 'gift wrapped' subs and amuse them, as for me, I will give up control to ONE who deserves my respect and has earned my trust...

Nicely...and graphically... stated.

Out of the 3 long-term submissives I have had, 2 of them refused to see their submission to me as anything other than a gift. It was one of those areas where we agreed to disagree. Ironically enough, those 2 no longer feel that they have to submit to my authority or suggestions and the one who does so, not out of obligation but respect NEVER viewed her submission as a gift...as you might guess, she is the one who is now a femdominant.

(in reply to ELUSIVE1)

Post #: 96

RE: submission agift or a need? - 7/23/2007 12:05:10 PM

domiguy

Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: bliss1

As a strong woman outside of my primary relationship for me to give any control is a step of trust - deep trust.
I enjoy being submissive with a Dom/Master. It is the greatest gift I can offer him (if you want to gift wrap me - find a gift bag, i'll fit better in that and I will im you the addy to mail me to).

Since it is not something I will give to any male coming down the road - it is a gift - and no I don't take it back until the relationship has run it's course and we agree that that is the way it will be.

You didn't come to CM because you had a gift...You came out her to sate a need, want or desire. The word "gift" just falls short in defining the way you actually feel about your submission.....The underlying cause of you being able to "give" of yourself is because you initially had the need, want or desire to do so.

Women love to make shit sound all frilly and sweet. Also who determines the worth of a gift?...The givee or the giver?

_____________________________

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Post #: 97

RE: submission agift or a need? - 7/23/2007 12:21:19 PM

ELUSIVE1

Posts: 536
Joined: 9/11/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

The idea of the "gift" is founded within bullshit. When you are out of a relationship do you say to yourself, "boy I sure would like to gift to someone my submission tonight." I don't think so.

What you search for is someone who can fill the need that you have. This is no different than anything else. Due to the fact that you have vaginas twix your legs you tend to romanticize a lot of shit, this included.

So you wrap your submission up into a nice shiny box covered with yodas and shitting unicorns...and wait for your Prince. In the meantime you masturbate like hell to compensate for your needs and fantasies not being met.

It's a need...Or maybe better phrased as a desire.

Thankyou! I couldn't have said it better myself...and this 'gift' these submissives want to give?? what makes it any better or any more special than anyone else's? what exactly is in that "gift" that he can't get from any other horny sub???if there is a "golden box" in that box I wanna see!!!!

_____________________________

"Words have no power to impress the mind without the exquisite horror of their reality"

*Poe
http://alt.com/blog/ELUSIVE1NC
http://users.adultspace.com/ELUSIVE1NC/

(in reply to domiguy)

Post #: 98

RE: submission agift or a need? - 7/23/2007 12:43:31 PM

LATEXBABY64

Posts: 2107
Joined: 4/8/2004
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who said it had to be a need.. needs change all the time.. sense we can really get complex here which would be boring and mostly go out one ear and into the other..... lets just say for simple fact people are here to express who they are as a person.. sub, dom ,domme, it what ever you may be. Givers are all kinds and levels does not make them a sub dom and domme. They can be givers too. I think the fair term would be to belong to or apart of is better then saying we have a need.. Some people have no needs sit back drink scotch watch stock reports....

(in reply to ELUSIVE1)

Post #: 99

RE: submission agift or a need? - 7/23/2007 5:08:14 PM

Aneirin

Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline

My oppinion,submission is a need not a gift as a gift given should not be taken back.The use of the term 'Gift',I feel is over used within kink and if the words be analysed it does not fit.

No doubt others have their own oppinion,which is great,as I like to live in a varied world.

Aneirin

(in reply to CelticPrince)

Post #: 100

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