RE: Restoring the draft (Full Version)

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FirmhandKY -> RE: Restoring the draft (7/23/2007 8:24:40 AM)

The Top 10 Cable News Shows

Show                            Channel         Average Audience (in 000s)
O'Reilly Factor               Fox News    2094
Hannity & Colmes          Fox News    1526
On the Record                Fox News    1322
The Fox Report              Fox News    1317
Special Report                Fox News    1309
O'Reilly Factor (repeat)   Fox News    1057
Larry King Live               CNN            1027
The Big Story                  Fox News    979
Studio B                        Fox News    920
Your World Neil Cavuto   Fox News    880

See any MSNBC or Keith Obermann shows here?

FirmKY







Aswad -> RE: Restoring the draft (7/23/2007 8:51:00 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

I prefer to call it Heinlein's Razor.


Heinlein's Razor has an added bit about remaining suspicious, which is unneccessary, as dealing with the problem does not depend so much on intention as on how the problem is affecting you and what it is.

I also try to use al-Aswad's Corollary: "Never attribute to incompetence what can be adequately explained by ignorance".

Or, rather, the corollary is more along the lines of "Always attribute human problems to the most specific fault that will suffice to fully explain it." But that doesn't look, or sound, so good, and the "nicer" version covers 90% of online communication, which is where it is most sorely needed.




spankmepink11 -> RE: Restoring the draft (7/23/2007 8:53:36 AM)

I'm not sure it still stands...but i had some greman girlfriends on Ft knox when my ex was stationed there, and one of them said that germany had a law that the males had to enlist for 2 yrs of military service...mandatory.  I can't remember if it was just the eldest  son of the family...or every male.

I would have no problem with such a thing if it were  done fairly,  but thats not likely....so i would oppose a mandatory draft.

Not to hijack, but i was a military spouse for 13 yrs...and my son is now in the military.    Even though the "base pay" may seem low....when you add the extras....like...seperate rations....and housing allowances...medical treatment   exemption from sales tax on post...etc. etc..we were not underpaid.  We certainly never would have qualified for food stamps...even when i was not working.   There were some who did...but those were the very young E-1's -E4's who had many children.  ( I had 3 and we lived comfortably without me working until the youngest was about 4 yrs old.   Then i went back to work because i wanted to...not because i had to.  And my Ex was a run of the mill NCO who retired as an E7.




Owner59 -> RE: Restoring the draft (7/23/2007 9:39:24 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

The Top 10 Cable News Shows

Show                            Channel         Average Audience (in 000s)
O'Reilly Factor               Fox News    2094
Hannity & Colmes          Fox News    1526
On the Record                Fox News    1322
The Fox Report              Fox News    1317
Special Report                Fox News    1309
O'Reilly Factor (repeat)   Fox News    1057
Larry King Live               CNN            1027
The Big Story                  Fox News    979
Studio B                        Fox News    920
Your World Neil Cavuto   Fox News    880

See any MSNBC or Keith Obermann shows here?

FirmKY






Notice how FHky omits the date.

A quote taken from your linked article.....

"If Fox News’s declines were one major change in the cable news landscape, the other big shift came at MSNBC, where viewership by any measure grew in both daytime and prime time in 2006."

It also says that the trends will continue in the same way.

This article was done in '06',and it was correct about Fox`s decline and MSNBC`s growth.Now fox can`t gloat as much as they used to.

It`s always a pleasure when the opponant hands you the info needed to trounce him.

Did you really think you were fooling anyone?

Thanks Firmhanky




Owner59 -> RE: Restoring the draft (7/23/2007 9:56:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mefisto69

I'll agree to a draft ONLY when the children of those parents earning $100,000 or more a year GO FIRST.


Don`t forget the neo-cons and their pact of sheep.

There`s a lot of fresh faces we can throw into the meat grinder they created.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/max-blumenthal/generation-chickenhawk-t_b_56676.html


If there was a draft,w/ rich kids going in,we never would have invaded Iraq.

Without this Iraq debockle,we wouldn`t even need to talk about this,let alone do it.





brightspot -> RE: Restoring the draft (7/23/2007 11:10:46 PM)

I would want to see the Bush twins be the first to be forced to enlist!
 
In other words Hell NO!
 
Missy.




Alumbrado -> RE: Restoring the draft (7/24/2007 5:13:59 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

There is nothing honourable about suicide, the rites of seppuku made it formalized yet no less dishonourable


'Honor' refers to fame, renown, or distinction...how do you figure that those who comitted ritual seppuku within the culture that coined that term, failed to achieve honor?




Still would like an answer on this... how is doing something  that one's society honors, not honorable?




farglebargle -> RE: Restoring the draft (7/24/2007 5:41:51 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

The Top 10 Cable News Shows

Show Channel Average Audience (in 000s)
O'Reilly Factor Fox News 2094
Hannity & Colmes Fox News 1526
On the Record Fox News 1322
The Fox Report Fox News 1317
Special Report Fox News 1309
O'Reilly Factor (repeat) Fox News 1057
Larry King Live CNN 1027
The Big Story Fox News 979
Studio B Fox News 920
Your World Neil Cavuto Fox News 880

See any MSNBC or Keith Obermann shows here?

FirmKY






What's wrong with Nielson? OH, they were extracted from Nielson numbers. I really do prefer raw data.

So, POPULARITY equals CORRECTNESS, does it?

I think experience shows that the UNPOPULAR CHOICE is usually the more correct one.







FirmhandKY -> RE: Restoring the draft (7/24/2007 8:41:37 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Notice how FHky omits the date.

A quote taken from your linked article.....

"If Fox News’s declines were one major change in the cable news landscape, the other big shift came at MSNBC, where viewership by any measure grew in both daytime and prime time in 2006."

It also says that the trends will continue in the same way.

This article was done in '06',and it was correct about Fox`s decline and MSNBC`s growth.Now fox can`t gloat as much as they used to.

It`s always a pleasure when the opponant hands you the info needed to trounce him.

Did you really think you were fooling anyone?

Thanks Firmhanky


Owner,

Rather snarky and belittling response, there isn't it?  You seem to think I'm "trying to pull" something, and make some kind of point that I'm not.

A straw man argument tends to show someone who either can't, or won't address an issue.  What issue is it, exactly, that you are afraid to address?

My point was that fargle's "71 year old" audience figures were likely incorrect, and that they came from a source with an agenda.

I provided links so that anyone could go back and read my source - which you apparently did.  Good for you.

The information was from data gathered in December of 2006.  Perhaps you have access to the latest Nielson figures, or whatever source provides audience data such as this.  If so, then post them, rather than ineffectively trying to shit all over what I provided.  Snipping at my heels without providing any substantial information or logical point or argument other than "nah, nah, nah, nah" doesn't earn you much in the way of respect, I don't think.

Addressing directly your point:

"If Fox News’s declines were one major change in the cable news landscape, the other big shift came at MSNBC, where viewership by any measure grew in both daytime and prime time in 2006."

Why don't you provide the numbers?  Don't you understand them?  Even with a slight decline in Fox's ratings, and a slight increase in MSNBC's rating, where do they currently stand in relationship to each other?

Oh ... wait ... I posted that in my first post to fargle, using his source:

MSNBC revamped its prime-time schedule two weeks ago, shelving many of its prime-time hosts in favor of documentary-style programs but retaining “Countdown,” a program the network cites as its great growth story.

That growth, while coming from a base that Fox News would find disastrously puny, is demonstrable, especially among the group that is chiefly sold to news advertisers: people between the ages of 25 and 54.

...

That qualifies as a feat for MSNBC, though Mr. Olbermann’s show remains little more than a dot in the rearview mirror of Fox News.

You can go and google the exact figures, but this says plenty.  Basically, it's a major news story that MSNBC has a "demonstatable" increase of any kind in it's viewership - although it's "puny" in relation to FOX.

It's always nice when your opponent has the information in front of him, but seems to be so caught up in his partisan one-ups-manship that he doesn't even see it.

I know you lefties just hate FOX, and will take any chance to put it in the worst light possible.  I don't really care, I just thought that when you do it, you should do it accurately.  Which fargles "71 year old audience" wasn't.  And which your pointless snarky sarcastic comments above weren't either.

Have a nice life.

FirmKY




farglebargle -> RE: Restoring the draft (7/24/2007 8:49:38 AM)

Yeah, I guess RATINGS count more for HONESTY and INTEGRITY, eh?

I see Olbermann's low numbers as clear evidence of his correctness.





kittinSol -> RE: Restoring the draft (7/24/2007 10:04:03 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

I know you lefties just hate FOX, and will take any chance to put it in the worst light possible.  I don't really care, I just thought that when you do it, you should do it accurately.  Which fargles "71 year old audience" wasn't.  And which your pointless snarky sarcastic comments above weren't either.

Have a nice life.

FirmKY



It's not that lefties dislike FOX; it's that FOX hates the lefties. Lefties actually find FOX interesting, because it displays the populist right's lowest denominators for all to see. Extreme-right wingers, in their paranoia, always seem to believe people from the other side of the political spectrum 'hate' them. I think 'hate' isn't a qualifier to being left-wing. Au contraire, mon cher.

One has to know one's enemies, and FOX does the job pretty well at making MY enemies known to me (I qualify as a lefty I think).

How do you feel about the fact that FOX is owned by Rupert Murdoch (he bought his American nationality; the man's an Aussie bastid!)? Do you think News Coroporation has the United States' interests at heart? Or do you think Murdoch wants to increase his share of the dough through populist propaganda?




FirmhandKY -> RE: Restoring the draft (7/24/2007 10:17:46 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Yeah, I guess RATINGS count more for HONESTY and INTEGRITY, eh?

I see Olbermann's low numbers as clear evidence of his correctness.


Just like Air America's low ratings were an indication of their correctness?

So ... why do you think that expressly "liberal" talk shows, and TV news networks have low ratings, and "conservative" talk shows and TV news networks have high ratings?

People are idiots?  Confused?  Deceived?  Mentally unbalanced?

Firm




Alumbrado -> RE: Restoring the draft (7/24/2007 10:19:09 AM)

Conservative media uses subliminal mind control, given to them by the government




mnottertail -> RE: Restoring the draft (7/24/2007 10:21:47 AM)

quote:


So ... why do you think that expressly "liberal" talk shows, and TV news networks have low ratings, and "conservative" talk shows and TV news networks have high ratings?

People are idiots?  Confused?  Deceived?  Mentally unbalanced?


Well, don't this kinda put the lie to the overwelmingly liberal media that is out to kill the conservatives argument and lie that is constantly bandied about?




farglebargle -> RE: Restoring the draft (7/24/2007 10:22:27 AM)

quote:


People are idiots? Confused? Deceived? Mentally unbalanced?


That's about it. Does it come as any surprise?





Mercnbeth -> RE: Restoring the draft (7/24/2007 10:28:29 AM)

quote:

I see Olbermann's low numbers as clear evidence of his correctness.

With that logic, do you think the Tampa Bay Devil Rays (W-38 / L-60 PCT .388) are the best team in baseball?




mnottertail -> RE: Restoring the draft (7/24/2007 10:31:20 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

I see Olbermann's low numbers as clear evidence of his correctness.

With that logic, do you think the Tampa Bay Devil Rays (W-38 / L-60 PCT .388) are the best team in baseball?


well, this is a thread about the draft, and I don't think the devil rays are going to be players in it...so it is topical ---

hee hee, sorry Merc---the joke was there, didn't mean to let the logic escape the jar.

Ron




Alumbrado -> RE: Restoring the draft (7/24/2007 10:31:39 AM)

Their fans are under government mind control too




mnottertail -> RE: Restoring the draft (7/24/2007 10:32:31 AM)

when I saw that scroll I thought that would have been Real.




Sinergy -> RE: Restoring the draft (7/24/2007 10:39:48 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

So ... why do you think that expressly "liberal" talk shows, and TV news networks have low ratings, and "conservative" talk shows and TV news networks have high ratings?



I generally dislike listening to talk radio.  On subjects I happen to know a great deal about, I find most of the people spewing nonsense either Right or Left are factually inaccurate or completely wrong.  Accordingly, I have a hard time believing that they check their facts on subjects I dont know anything about.

Not to mention their tendency to say something, and then deny ever making that claim when challenged about it several months later.  Anybody with a Google connection or access to NexusLexus can search for their words, but apparently the SpewingHeadTypes simply assume their listeners will turn off their ability to cognate and believe the drivel emanating from their speakers.

To cap it off, I find most of them have a tendency to be simply rude to their guests.  I keep waiting for one of them to be rude to Dr. Hannibal Lecter so we dont have to listen to their inane twaddle any longer.

Sinergy




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