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RE: BDSM: The junk drawer for alternative life - 7/27/2007 7:27:40 PM

BitaTruble

Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: rhythmboi

are you sure they're not more open-minded than the populace as a whole?

I haven't done any scientific study on the subject, but I have seen more than my fair share of closed-minded behavior in all walks of life, BDSM included. The folks who participate in BDSM are no different from the folks who don't participate in BDSM. Might be an interesting subject to study to get a definitive answer once and for all though. Why don't you start with this question.. and see how it goes.

Ask some of the folks around these parts .. "Is there such a thing as a 'no limits slave?" and see what kind of response you get.

Then ask some vanillas the same question and I have a feeling they already think we do everything under the sun and then sneak in to murder their children in the middle of the night so would have no qualms about answering that question with YES! ::laughs::

quote:

anyhow, it is an interesting observation you make.

I thought it was something that people might like to discuss, so thank you. :)

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."

(in reply to rhythmboi)

Post #: 41

RE: BDSM: The junk drawer for alternative life - 7/27/2007 7:33:29 PM

BitaTruble

Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHeart

I am not disagreeing with your basic point - what I am trying to understand is why you are making it.

Because I am an educator.

quote:

You are in a site where the Monets and Picassos are on the wall, but are you saying that its doors should be shut against those looking for the flat white?

No. I'm saying that folks looking for the flat white should be directed to a place where they can actually find flat white.

quote:

Can't those who want to see the paintings just go on looking and allow those who belong at the hardware store to either wander off again or perhaps stay and learn to enjoy the paintings?

Sure they can. Most do that very thing. I'm an educator though and I'd prefer to help those who are looking rather than just stare at a painting I've seen a hundred times.

quote:

The art gallery doesn't require its patrons to pass some sort of test before they walk through the doors. The idea is to educate, inform and enjoy.

Seems a bit of a conflict. Do you want to educate and inform or do you want to ignore them and let them find their own way to the hardware store when they might not even be aware that it's a hardware store which they need?

Celeste

edited to add: I just had a thought that might explain my position and it's really more of a question. If BDSM is all inclusive.. why do the Mods move things to 'off topic' when they aren't related to BDSM? If you don't think that anything should be moved out of general BDSM into more appropriate threads, than I can understand the belief that this thread is pointless. However, a note.. this thread has NOT been moved to Off Topic.. so does it make you wonder at all .. why not?

< Message edited by BitaTruble -- 7/27/2007 7:39:19 PM >

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."

(in reply to LadyHeart)

Post #: 42

RE: BDSM: The junk drawer for alternative life - 7/27/2007 7:38:30 PM

catize

Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
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quote:

snipped for brevity, but enjoyed the whole post, Catize. Thank you for some simple words that spoke simply volumes. :)

Celeste

You are most welcome, BitaTruble. Just wanted you to know that I 'get' your point!

_____________________________

"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

(in reply to BitaTruble)

Post #: 43

RE: BDSM: The junk drawer for alternative life - 7/27/2007 7:56:57 PM

mistoferin

Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
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I don't see your thread as pointless Celeste, nor do I see that you are attempting to put anyone through any tests or close any doors in anyone's face.

I agree with you that "alternative" is a wonderful word that all can find a way to relate to. BDSM however, is more specific as to what kind of "alternative" one is trying to describe. I would not categorize swingers as people being into BDSM simply on the basis that the two share in the fact that they are both considered "kinky". Not anymore than I would associate Michael Vicks with P.E.T.A. on the basis that they both have something to do with animals.

I know several people who live M/s or D/s lifestyles and they don't partake in any BDSM activities at all. There are plenty of folks who participate in BDSM that have no interest whatsoever in an M/s or D/s relationship.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to BitaTruble)

Post #: 44

RE: BDSM: The junk drawer for alternative life - 7/27/2007 8:12:12 PM

MadRabbit

Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
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I tend to agree. I went to my first BDSM munch with only a clowdy idea of what I was looking for. I was expecting to find it there, but I didnt and quickly realized that I didnt particularly fit in there.

I am into M/S and I tend to associate with Leather people because they have a lot to offer in that area. BDSM is merely something I incorporate into my sex life with a partner how I see fit.

I have no interest anymore of being a Top in the BDSM scene, but still...I am involved somewhat because munches are the best place to meet a potential partner into M/S.

_____________________________

Advice for New Dominants
The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

(in reply to BitaTruble)

Post #: 45

RE: BDSM: The junk drawer for alternative life - 7/27/2007 8:45:44 PM

dcnovice

Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

Now now Domi, not everyone does rosebush torture.

I should hope not. How would we know if the poor plant was consenting?

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to LaTigresse)

Post #: 46

RE: BDSM: The junk drawer for alternative life - 7/27/2007 9:02:24 PM

BitaTruble

Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkDaddyZ

And considering all of us under the Alternative lifestyle umbrella rarely agree on anything.

When I first came out, the only kinky place in town was a gay club. The local Mistress hung there so we went with hopes of finding play partners. It rarely happened. But it was a place where you could be open.

As I moved to larger cities I've found more places for what I'm specifically looking for and at times more politics (HA!) still I am glad I found it, for starting out I kinda dug the umbrella... ella... ella... hey.. hey.. hey....(sorry I couldn't resist) that we were all under, I just don't have the need for it anymore.

I missed several posts while doing daily .. um.. activities, but first did want to thank and acknowledge the words of those who contributed to the thread. I still find the topic interesting and wanted to get it out there. For that, it has served it's purpose.

DarkDaddyZ,

Your post caught my eye and I did want to respond to your words. You mentioned that when you first came out, the only kinky place to which you had access was a gay club. I'm wondering if someone at that the club had pointed out a new place of which you were unaware, a place that actually spoke more to what you were looking for, would you have sought it out? Would you have been dismayed that the gays pointed you in an.. alternative direction? Would you have been grateful they helped you out with knowledge you didn't have previously?

That's all I'm trying to say with this thread. For those of us who are aware of alternatives, is it wrong to point them out to those who, clearly, aren't finding what they are looking for here?

My thanks again to everyone who contributed. I enjoy the forums a great deal and have not been disappointed with any of the threads I've started.. even when I don't agree with what's been said. I've learned a thing or two and changed my mind at times ... and I've learned not to change my thinking a time or two as well.

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."

(in reply to DarkDaddyZ)

Post #: 47

RE: BDSM: The junk drawer for alternative life - 7/27/2007 9:18:16 PM

CuriousLord

Posts: 3911
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

For the purpose of this post BDSM is defined as bondage, discipline and sadomasochism (actually that's the way I always define it, but I digress). If you want to define it as something else, more power to you, but this is my OP and I'm speaking on this subject as it pertains to my viewpoints. I absolutely refuse to argue semantics on this one, but do feel free to argue amongst yourselves.

Oh man. This is a good laugh. Telling people that this is how you define it, and that you don't want them bothering you about the choice of terms. Go irony.

In any case, your OP is about confusing terms again. You opened up by redefining BDSM, then said you don't know why people classify other sorts of BDSM, common, as BDSM, your definition. Or, to put it into simplier terms, you're saying:
"[Your form of BDSM] is [definition of your form of BDSM]. Why do people call [various things not in your definition of BDSM] [BDSM, vague]?"

Or, to draw example..
"For purposes of this example, a 'dog' will be defined as 'pedigrees'. Now, I want to ask, why do people call mutts dogs?"

(in reply to BitaTruble)

Post #: 48

RE: BDSM: The junk drawer for alternative life - 7/27/2007 9:26:34 PM

DarkDaddyZ

Posts: 805
Joined: 4/7/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble
DarkDaddyZ,

Your post caught my eye and I did want to respond to your words. You mentioned that when you first came out, the only kinky place to which you had access was a gay club. I'm wondering if someone at that the club had pointed out a new place of which you were unaware, a place that actually spoke more to what you were looking for, would you have sought it out? Would you have been dismayed that the gays pointed you in an.. alternative direction? Would you have been grateful they helped you out with knowledge you didn't have previously?

That's all I'm trying to say with this thread. For those of us who are aware of alternatives, is it wrong to point them out to those who, clearly, aren't finding what they are looking for here?

My thanks again to everyone who contributed. I enjoy the forums a great deal and have not been disappointed with any of the threads I've started.. even when I don't agree with what's been said. I've learned a thing or two and changed my mind at times ... and I've learned not to change my thinking a time or two as well.

Celeste

Hi Celeste,

Actually, I knew that to get into the local SM group that I had to be screened by going to the gay club (It was called The Brown Derby in Clarksville, TN near Ft Campbell, KY). I knew (or at least hoped) that if I showed my face around enough that I may have an in. One of the people of PEP finally came up to me and I found the resource I was looking for. You know looking back because one of my first play partners was a lesbian and in the military, I'd go with her to the Brown Derby so she could troll and had me as a backup if she got caught being there.

One thing that was interesting was when I arrived in Atlanta in 94, I wouldn't attend any of the local dungeon parties at gay clubs at first because I was so grateful to find a het community, I was a schmuck for that way of thinking. It wasn't until late 95 that I reluctantly went with a friend to our local "gay" dungeon (Sanctuary of A Dark Angel) that I avoided because I was acting like a homophobe. That night I went there changed my life and opened my mind and broadened my way of thinking.

Again it's damn umbrella ella...(never mind) thingie again.

I've enjoyed reading everyone's thoughts here.

< Message edited by DarkDaddyZ -- 7/27/2007 9:27:49 PM >

_____________________________

"Flirting is part of the job description." DJ Jesus (Lucy Daughter Of The Devil)

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(in reply to BitaTruble)

Post #: 49

RE: BDSM: The junk drawer for alternative life - 7/27/2007 9:44:37 PM

SexyRed

Posts: 529
Joined: 8/19/2004
Status: offline

It is about semantics, it usually is. I say that I am into BDSM, not just D/s or kink. While it may be a catchprase, it still makes its point when trying to meet people of similar likes. Of course you need to explain things further if you are trying to connect with someone, but if you are just labeling yourself as something, you can choose whatever label you would like.

Everything that we are into covers alot of ground, but to start out with, you do need that BDSM term, because just saying alternative or kink or non-vanilla is not enough.

_____________________________

A trucker will slow down for a blonde, stop for a brunette, but back up 500 yards for a redhead!

(in reply to DarkDaddyZ)

Post #: 50

RE: BDSM: The junk drawer for alternative life - 7/27/2007 10:42:44 PM

BitaTruble

Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline

::snipped::

quote:

ORIGINAL: SexyRed

It is about semantics, it usually is. I say that I am into BDSM, not just D/s or kink.

This isn't really the issue I'm speaking of, though. If you are a swinger (for example) and say you're all over BDSM because you think that's the catch-all phrase meaning 'not vanilla' so includes swingers, not only are we not on the same page, we don't even own the same book.

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."

(in reply to SexyRed)

Post #: 51

RE: BDSM: The junk drawer for alternative life - 7/28/2007 12:05:05 AM

SexyRed

Posts: 529
Joined: 8/19/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

::snipped::

quote:

ORIGINAL: SexyRed

It is about semantics, it usually is. I say that I am into BDSM, not just D/s or kink.

This isn't really the issue I'm speaking of, though. If you are a swinger (for example) and say you're all over BDSM because you think that's the catch-all phrase meaning 'not vanilla' so includes swingers, not only are we not on the same page, we don't even own the same book.

Celeste

You are totally right, that is why I don't use "alternate" or just "kinky" since that could connote swingers, or other lifestyles that I am not trying to portray. So I do see your point now.

_____________________________

A trucker will slow down for a blonde, stop for a brunette, but back up 500 yards for a redhead!

(in reply to BitaTruble)

Post #: 52

RE: BDSM: The junk drawer for alternative life - 7/28/2007 3:52:02 AM

julietsierra

Posts: 1841
Joined: 9/26/2004
Status: offline

omg! I absolutely LOVE the part about 4 days later posting on CM regarding what she should do about your absence!! FANTASTIC!!

and so true!!

juliet

(in reply to LaTigresse)

Post #: 53

RE: BDSM: The junk drawer for alternative life - 7/28/2007 5:08:21 AM

ELUSIVE1

Posts: 536
Joined: 9/11/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

Now now Domi, not everyone does rosebush torture.

mmmmmmm...Rose bush torture---one of the hottest scenes I ever experienced was when the Dom I was seeing laid a single long stem red rose across his bed, then had me kneel, he blindfolded me and started teasing me with the rose...ran the soft petals all over my body-around my face...THEN started whipping me with it, thorns and all......oh, and the petals stain the skin and the sheets under the 'right' circumstances...

I should hope not. How would we know if the poor plant was consenting?

_____________________________

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(in reply to dcnovice)

Post #: 54

RE: BDSM: The junk drawer for alternative life - 7/28/2007 5:48:48 AM

gooddogbenji

Posts: 5094
Joined: 11/15/2005
From: Toronto
Status: offline

Bita,

I see what you mean.

It isn't about booting off the swingers and other sick fucks, it's about them finding what they want.

If you go to an ink store to buy a pencil, the ink store doesn't mind. They have a token few pencils, and will happily sell them given the opportunity. You, however, are sitting there wondering why they don't have the exact niche pensil you are looking for with the proper grade of eraser for your custom paper.

This is why large cities have stores that sell unique pieces of toast. And the internet is the largest city of all.

Yours,

benji

_____________________________

Prevent global warming. Stop burning patchouli.

(in reply to ELUSIVE1)

Post #: 55

RE: BDSM: The junk drawer for alternative life - 7/28/2007 6:04:06 AM

WhiplashSmile

Posts: 1472
Joined: 6/8/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

What if the chat is about making his sub do the gardening as punishment? Then does gardening become relevant....Probably not. Why would a dungeon need to be a part of bdsm? Why even mention it? You can cut out all of the idle shit till you get down to the core components....And then I actually wonder if there really is a dynamic that is there at all? Exhibitionism doesn't really have anything to do with bdsm....Either does the sense of community.....Where are you willing to draw the line?

OH DAMN Dude you mean anytime I've made a Subbie Slave show her tits in public cause I commanded it, it was not BDSM? No shit... Damn this totally ruined my morning breakfast... Now I have to go back to bed all depressed, sleep it off and try to start my day again all over...

(in reply to domiguy)

Post #: 56

RE: BDSM: The junk drawer for alternative life - 7/28/2007 6:11:04 AM

WhiplashSmile

Posts: 1472
Joined: 6/8/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

It appears that there is a little bit of a debate in regards to whether it includes the D/s dynamic or not.....the definition today obviously does.....Either way so what?

Exactly about D/s! Just to toss a few more monkeys into this circus. I came to the realization that having a D/D (Dom couple) relationship still there's a focus on D/s (more like avoiding it). Still I realized that this was potential match. Just like submissive couples. Take the letters D and s. Put all the combinations together..

D/s, D/D or s/s.. Dominance and Submission is what the DS in BDSM means. notice BDSM is not BD/SM! Just apply the concept of D and S itself. To many people treat it as only D/s and forget the other combinations.

(in reply to domiguy)

Post #: 57

RE: BDSM: The junk drawer for alternative life - 7/28/2007 6:17:01 AM

WhiplashSmile

Posts: 1472
Joined: 6/8/2004
Status: offline

Wearing clothing is a form of self bondage in itself. Keeps people's body parts from swinging all over the place. Plus clothing is a form of chasity. If everbody was naked I'm certain more people would be having sex all over the public places.

Damn, now if some dude wants to bind himself up looking like a women, he's really expressing a form of bondage on his manhood. Same with woman dressing as men! A form of self bondage, plus the general public reactions crossdressers is simply Humilation.

All this sounds a lot like BDSM to me some way or another. LOL.. Oh Screw it, I'd rather be naked as a monkey having Sex all the time anyways...

(in reply to BitaTruble)

Post #: 58

RE: BDSM: The junk drawer for alternative life - 7/28/2007 6:22:09 AM

gooddogbenji

Posts: 5094
Joined: 11/15/2005
From: Toronto
Status: offline

Yeah, such as BM (scat play), MS (Multiple sclerosis play), MD (medical play), DM (Role playing nerd play), and many others.

According to modern common use, the D/s part is included, but that is coincidence that the letters happen to line up.

I like Bita's definition: BDSM is kink, D/s is lifestyle. I know, I can't force you to accept this, because y'all aint collared yet, but I can have fun trying.

But even if we include D/s, it still doesn't include swingers, nudists, exhibitionists, or foot lovers, unless they throw in some component of BDSM, in the same way that it doesn't include baptists, unless they like flogging.

We aint excluding anyone. But if we don't draw a line somewhere, BDSM will soon mean anything from halter tops to drinking on the job.

Yours,

benji

_____________________________

Prevent global warming. Stop burning patchouli.

(in reply to WhiplashSmile)

Post #: 59

RE: BDSM: The junk drawer for alternative life - 7/28/2007 6:36:25 AM

Floggings4You

Posts: 240
Joined: 12/18/2006
Status: offline

The 'problem' is that BDSM is a 'general' term, and like all general terms, it does not reveal the specifics. If Y/you hear S/someone say, "I'm into BDSM", Y/you still don't know enough from that statement alone to know if Y/you're both into the same stuff. (T/they might be into paddles, while Y/you might be into ropes, for example...)

Whether O/one chooses to define 'BDSM' according to the preferences expressed in the OP, or chooses to use the term to refer to a broader range of options, O/one will ultimately have to express the specifics of O/one's interests, for O/others to understand O/one's likes and dislikes.

(I would go further, and say that until O/one actually plays with O/other person(s), O/one still isn't really going to have a very good idea--just from having T/them describe T/their interests--what T/they're really like...)

< Message edited by Floggings4You -- 7/28/2007 6:38:50 AM >

(in reply to gooddogbenji)

Post #: 60

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