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Punishment / rejected now what? - 7/29/2007 5:26:00 PM

CelticPrince

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In reading profiles when I have time I always come across the issue of punishment, the sub needs it! earns it! uses it as guidance! etc.

But little is said as to the course of action when the punishment is rejected.

Any thoughts?

CelticPrince

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RE: Punishment / rejected now what? - 7/29/2007 5:27:37 PM

DianeB269

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Just say goodbye and send him/her on their mary way.

Diane

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RE: Punishment / rejected now what? - 7/29/2007 5:30:58 PM

mistoferin

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Not all subs need it, earn it or would use it as guidance.

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~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

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RE: Punishment / rejected now what? - 7/29/2007 5:31:03 PM

DarkDaddyZ

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If I am in a D/s relationship and we have agreed that there will be times the discipline/punishment/corrective action is needed and my partner refused, then the relationship would be over. This is because she doesn't trust me regarding the punishment and I would resent her for not taking the punishment, there would be a serious bond broken. If she didn't trust me with the punishment, she's no longer really in a power exchange relationship with me.

_____________________________

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RE: Punishment / rejected now what? - 7/29/2007 5:32:09 PM

Daddysjezzy

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I dont think I understood your question. Reject punishment as in say no you cant punish me? If they reject your right to punish them then they reject you as their Dominant I guess. I would say its time to have a serious chat with them about the future or lack thereof of the relationship.

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RE: Punishment / rejected now what? - 7/29/2007 5:33:04 PM

mistoferin

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkDaddyZ
If she didn't trust me with the punishment, she's no longer really in a power exchange relationship with me.

Do you see punishment/submission to punishment as the only way to exchange power?

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

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RE: Punishment / rejected now what? - 7/29/2007 5:41:21 PM

mistoferin

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Daddysjezzy
If they reject your right to punish them then they reject you as their Dominant I guess. I would say its time to have a serious chat with them about the future or lack thereof of the relationship.

I disagree. Not everyone incorporates punishment into their relationship dynamics.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to Daddysjezzy)

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RE: Punishment / rejected now what? - 7/29/2007 5:48:43 PM

DarkDaddyZ

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

Do you see punishment/submission to punishment as the only way to exchange power?

Not at all! There are all kinds of ways to exchange power. But I do feel if she rejects my punishment she doesn't trust my judgement so that has broken that power exchange.

Z-

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"Flirting is part of the job description." DJ Jesus (Lucy Daughter Of The Devil)

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RE: Punishment / rejected now what? - 7/29/2007 5:52:29 PM

ownedgirlie

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I believe there are certain things people should know about each other before engaging in M/s and D/s dynamics. Pholosophies about punishment is one of them. If I adamantly oppose ever being punished, and I offer my submission to a Master who firmly believes in punishing, then we're starting off with a disconnect. I spent a lot of time in conversation with Mr. Wonderful to learn and understand his philosophies about such things before I ever asked him to train me and consider me as his slave. If I knew going into this that despite our conversations, he still believed in punishing me, and still I offered my submission, then I really have no basis for rejecting it later.

However, in own situation, I didn't oppose punishment, nor do I now. I just haven't required any in a very long time. Were I to reject his punishment, I would be rejecting his authority over me, therefore rejecting my own slavery to him. I'd likely be given two options - shut up and receive it, or stop being his slave.

I trust him to make the best decisions he knows regarding me and us. I've posted time and again that he has about a 95% accuracy rate, in which he is spot on in his decisions. This gives him a 5% error rate. I accept those errors as part of my slavery to him. Sometimes I'm given an opportunity to explain my concerns about a punishment prior to receiving it (ie; if I think he may have misunderstood a situation and might be punishing me unfairly). Sometimes I am not. At some point, however, I am always able to speak my mind. If I believe I have received a punishment in error, I will have the opportunity to say so and explain why. If it actually was an error, we both get over it and move on. This has happened before. It comes with enjoying that 95%.

But rejecting any part of his authority is rejecting what I am to him. And that just won't happen.

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RE: Punishment / rejected now what? - 7/29/2007 6:06:34 PM

chiaThePet

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CelticPrince

In reading profiles when I have time I always come across the issue of punishment, the sub needs it! earns it! uses it as guidance! etc.

But little is said as to the course of action when the punishment is rejected.

Any thoughts?

CelticPrince

i Need Your Love and Understanding.

i Earn Your Respect and my place Under Your Shadow.

i am Guided by Your Wisdom and Compassionate Command.

i find the call for Punishment follows Failure.

i ponder the existence of Failure, and ponder the existence of Power.

i then ask, Whom has failed, and Whom should know punishment?

chia* (the pet)

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Love is a many splendid sting.

You can stick me in the corner, but I'll probably just end up coloring on the walls.

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RE: Punishment / rejected now what? - 7/29/2007 6:07:19 PM

mistoferin

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie
I believe there are certain things people should know about each other before engaging in M/s and D/s dynamics. Pholosophies about punishment is one of them. If I adamantly oppose ever being punished, and I offer my submission to a Master who firmly believes in punishing, then we're starting off with a disconnect. I spent a lot of time in conversation with Mr. Wonderful to learn and understand his philosophies about such things before I ever asked him to train me and consider me as his slave. If I knew going into this that despite our conversations, he still believed in punishing me, and still I offered my submission, then I really have no basis for rejecting it later.

Well said owned.

My beliefs on punishment, as you already know, differ from yours. I would not become involved in a relationship with a man who saw value in punishment. Of course though, this would definitely be something that was discussed at length before submission was offered. I don't think though, that my disbelief in the benefits of punishment negate my abilities to have successful power exchange relationships.

So to answer the OP's question, I really believe that it depends upon whether or not the concept of punishment is agreed upon by the involved parties. It is hard to determine from the OP if he is referring to punishment rejected in an established relationship or if it is the concept of punishment being rejected in the negotiation stage of one.

_____________________________

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~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

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RE: Punishment / rejected now what? - 7/29/2007 6:12:32 PM

ownedgirlie

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin
Well said owned.

Thanks Erin

quote:

My beliefs on punishment, as you already know, differ from yours. I would not become involved in a relationship with a man who saw value in punishment. Of course though, this would definitely be something that was discussed at length before submission was offered. I don't think though, that my disbelief in the benefits of punishment negate my abilities to have successful power exchange relationships.

I know we have different beliefs on this topic, as do others. But in part we are saying the same thing - know what you are agreeing to get into. If you agree, and then later reject that agreement, you have issues.

I also agree that those who do not engage in punishment can still have successful power exchange relationships (or authority transfer, or any other kind of relationship type). Mine has been punishment free for nearly a year now and his power over me is stronger than ever.

quote:

So to answer the OP's question, I really believe that it depends upon whether or not the concept of punishment is agreed upon by the involved parties. It is hard to determine from the OP if he is referring to punishment rejected in an established relationship or if it is the concept of punishment being rejected in the negotiation stage of one.

Good point. I answered from the perspective of an established relationship.

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RE: Punishment / rejected now what? - 7/29/2007 6:29:29 PM

CelticPrince

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Diane,

I have not been in that pickle, but I like your style. Exactly what I would do.

CP

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RE: Punishment / rejected now what? - 7/29/2007 6:31:01 PM

CelticPrince

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mist,

your thoughts are of course correct, but did not address the problem.

CP

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RE: Punishment / rejected now what? - 7/29/2007 6:32:19 PM

CelticPrince

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DD,

Ahmen to that!

CP

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RE: Punishment / rejected now what? - 7/29/2007 6:34:23 PM

CelticPrince

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jezzy,

exactly the manner I would use if it ever happens.

CP

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RE: Punishment / rejected now what? - 7/29/2007 6:35:26 PM

mistoferin

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CelticPrince

mist,

your thoughts are of course correct, but did not address the problem.

CP

Well, maybe if you could clarify a bit more as to the circumstance?

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to CelticPrince)

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RE: Punishment / rejected now what? - 7/29/2007 6:38:44 PM

CelticPrince

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girlie,

well said and it appears to be in line with most others.

CP

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RE: Punishment / rejected now what? - 7/29/2007 6:54:07 PM

BitaTruble

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CelticPrince

In reading profiles when I have time I always come across the issue of punishment, the sub needs it! earns it! uses it as guidance! etc.

Is it okay to make the assumption that you are not speaking about a 'punishment is play and fun, let me spank your butt you naughty girl'? I totally get that scenario, it's just not part of our dynamic. If that assumption is incorrect, ignore my post.

This slave does her level best to avoid punishment! I don't need it, I don't want to earn it and I certainly hope that guidance comes in some other form.

quote:

But little is said as to the course of action when the punishment is rejected.

For Himself and I, punishment is used as a tool to get me to think and/or regain focus and it takes an appropriate form to cause me to do that very thing. The idea of rejecting it is foreign to my way of thinking. A course of action when punishment is rejected? If it's part of one's dynamic, there is no rejection and if it's not part of one's dynamic, then the subject is moot.

Maybe I didn't get the question either. Wouldn't be the first time!