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gender roles and $$$ - 7/29/2007 7:43:41 PM   
hereyesruponyou


Posts: 770
Joined: 1/22/2007
Status: offline 		I've viewed this scene from both sides and i have noticed a trend toward the idea that no matter what side the male is on, he is expected to often carry the financial burden. Friends often allude to this without realizing how contradictive they are being.

Example...female sub/slave is often expected to not work, stay home and devote her time to her dominant, his home etc... he provides financially. This is seen as acceptable.  

Another example:  Male sub/slave is expected to work, provide for his domme and contribute to the household while also taking care of his dominant, sometimes to the point she does not need to work. This is also seen as acceptable.

Few male Dom's expect females to support them financially. And a male sub/slave that does not work is often thought to be sponging off his Domme.

Interesting contradictions...No real question here. Just something to think about...comment on if desired.


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RE: gender roles and $$$ - 7/29/2007 7:56:51 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: hereyesruponyou

I've viewed this scene from both sides and i have noticed a trend toward the idea that no matter what side the male is on, he is expected to often carry the financial burden. Friends often allude to this without realizing how contradictive they are being.



Tell that to my ex husband.  After years of not working consitently, I filed for divorce (one of many reasons).  Now he is still not working and has garnished my wages.  Apparently he did not subscribe to this point of view.  Going to court soon - news at 11.

Not that I'm bitter or anything...

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Presumption of the Male as Provider - 7/29/2007 7:58:02 PM   
kiyari


Posts: 631
Status: offline 		Some comments

Males stereotypically are paid more for the *same* work than females

Male-oriented employment
(kinds of work men can get that women are not welcomed into -
i.e. construction, trucking, 'brawn' work generally, &tc),
in general averages considerably better compensation than 'pink-collar' work.

Males have a different perspective regarding the central importance of their 'job'

Yes, I know this latter is sort of vague

For men, their job or career often seems to be their center, 
a major portion of their self-identity (again, stereotypically),
whereas
for women, it is partner/family that is the center

...just saying

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RE: gender roles and $$$ - 7/29/2007 7:58:43 PM   
hereyesruponyou


Posts: 770
Joined: 1/22/2007
Status: offline 		well there are always the user types out there. i rolled my ex's debt into my mortgage then we parted. so he got clean credit and i got stuck with a payment i can barely afford. gotta love it

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RE: gender roles and $$$ - 7/29/2007 8:01:55 PM   
MzMia


Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline 		Gender roles and sexism is very prevalent in this lifestyle.
 
I notice sexism all the time around here, it is as common and acceptable
as breathing the air.
 
I don't see that changing any time soon.

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RE: gender roles and $$$ - 7/29/2007 8:11:03 PM   
hereyesruponyou


Posts: 770
Joined: 1/22/2007
Status: offline 		I hate to have to agree with you Mia, but i agree. Change is often only as real as we see it...and i don't see it

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RE: gender roles and $$$ - 7/29/2007 8:19:14 PM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: hereyesruponyou
Example...female sub/slave is often expected to not work, stay home and devote her time to her dominant, his home etc... he provides financially. This is seen as acceptable.  


Do you happen to have any of their contact info???



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RE: gender roles and $$$ - 7/29/2007 8:51:53 PM   
Wildfleurs


Posts: 1650
Joined: 9/24/2004
From: Connecticut
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: hereyesruponyou

I've viewed this scene from both sides and i have noticed a trend toward the idea that no matter what side the male is on, he is expected to often carry the financial burden. Friends often allude to this without realizing how contradictive they are being.

Example...female sub/slave is often expected to not work, stay home and devote her time to her dominant, his home etc... he provides financially. This is seen as acceptable. 



I'm not sure I'd say its acceptable.  I'm not hugely pro stay at home ____ unless there are UMs under the age to go to school, chronic illness that prevents full time employment, elderly relative that needs to be taken care of, or some other sort of extenuating circumstance. 

C~


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RE: gender roles and $$$ - 7/29/2007 8:59:18 PM   
defiantbadgirl


Posts: 2988
Joined: 11/14/2005
Status: offline 		Men can make so much more than women. My father just retired from a union oil refinery. Even if I got a masters degree I wouldn't make as much as he did while he was working.  When I get out of college, I'll be lucky if my salary matches his retirement pension (social security not included). I see nothing wrong with society's view on freeloading men. Considering the comparison in earning potential, I would say this attitude is plenty fair. When jobs that women can do start paying as much as jobs women aren't physically capable of doing, maybe I'll change my mind.

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Only in the United States is the health of the people secondary to making money. If this is what "capitalism" is about, I'll take socialism any day of the week.


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RE: gender roles and $$$ - 7/29/2007 9:12:46 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		A great majority of hetero Ds couples desire a relationship that aligns with idealized gender stereotypes.  No doubt about it.

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RE: gender roles and $$$ - 7/29/2007 9:14:31 PM   
Damocles809


Posts: 532
Joined: 7/12/2006
Status: offline 		If we all played the roles we're *supposed* to, then none of us would be in the lifestyle at all. 

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RE: gender roles and $$$ - 7/29/2007 9:23:02 PM   
Estring


Posts: 3314
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

Men can make so much more than women. My father just retired from a union oil refinery. Even if I got a masters degree I wouldn't make as much as he did while he was working.  When I get out of college, I'll be lucky if my salary matches his retirement pension (social security not included). I see nothing wrong with society's view on freeloading men. Considering the comparison in earning potential, I would say this attitude is plenty fair. When jobs that women can do start paying as much as jobs women aren't physically capable of doing, maybe I'll change my mind.


I was wondering how someone could say something so ridiculous, then I remembered, you are in college.  



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RE: gender roles and $$$ - 7/29/2007 9:37:23 PM   
Archer


Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		OK a few things absent from the women's lib sections arguments about women getting paid less.

1. Men statisticly take of far less time than women (can be attributed to kids most often but the fact remains)
2. Not many men are going to leave a job due to pregancy for several months.
3. Men do and take the jobs that historicly are the most hazardous. (thus leading to a shorter life span and more diseases directly attributable to their jobs)

I'm not against women being paid as much as men assuming the work is equal, however, matching salaries for matching work needs to include the idea of total time/production.
However this quote bothers the hell outta me
"When jobs that women can do start paying as much as jobs women aren't physically capable of doing, maybe I'll change my mind. "
To expect equal pay you have to show equal work in my mind.
The idea that someone should be paid as much without regard to the value of the work to the customers goes entirely against my sense of logic.




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RE: gender roles and $$$ - 7/29/2007 9:40:37 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

Men can make so much more than women. My father just retired from a union oil refinery. Even if I got a masters degree I wouldn't make as much as he did while he was working.  When I get out of college, I'll be lucky if my salary matches his retirement pension (social security not included). I see nothing wrong with society's view on freeloading men. Considering the comparison in earning potential, I would say this attitude is plenty fair. When jobs that women can do start paying as much as jobs women aren't physically capable of doing, maybe I'll change my mind.


You realize it doesn't start changing until people stop expecting it and viewing it as acceptable, right?

And that women are capable of working those jobs. They just might have to hit the gym more often. But hey... if you want the big bucks, you gotta work for it.

< Message edited by AquaticSub -- 7/29/2007 9:41:49 PM >

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RE: gender roles and $$$ - 7/29/2007 9:44:53 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline 		The double standard exists. I think it's a huge load of BS. Some men are better suited to being stay at home fathers. Some women are better suited to going out and bringing home the bacon. Some dominants like their subs to work, some like them to stay at home. Gender really shouldn't come into the question. If it's free-loading for men, it's free-loading for women too.

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It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

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RE: gender roles and $$$ - 7/29/2007 9:50:05 PM   
MagiksSlave


Posts: 2768
Joined: 9/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

Men can make so much more than women. My father just retired from a union oil refinery. Even if I got a masters degree I wouldn't make as much as he did while he was working.  When I get out of college, I'll be lucky if my salary matches his retirement pension (social security not included). I see nothing wrong with society's view on freeloading men. Considering the comparison in earning potential, I would say this attitude is plenty fair. When jobs that women can do start paying as much as jobs women aren't physically capable of doing, maybe I'll change my mind.


I dont know about the other women here but the only job a man can do that I am physically unable to do is produse sperm to fertalise an egg.

ms

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don't slow down
if you’re scared dont show it
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before the devil even knows your there.


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RE: gender roles and $$$ - 7/29/2007 9:54:14 PM   
AAkasha


Posts: 4429
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline
I know I am not the only femdom that works and my husband does not.  I am self made; I love my career.  I prefer having him operate as my assistant as well as handling the domestic chores.  Most of my female friends are career women also.  Your sample size is too small.

Akasha


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RE: gender roles and $$$ - 7/29/2007 9:54:45 PM   
ChainedExistence


Posts: 507
Joined: 2/5/2005
Status: offline 		Sometimes the type of job has more to do with who takes off than the gender of the person with the job. My ex literally had to show up to work even if he was sick, so he could hardly take a day off to care for the kids. Of course, he refused to look after the kids when they were sick and he was off, so it pretty much made it my "job" anyway, so your point is probably more true than I wish it was.
Now as for taking off for pregnancy, men are now entitled to the same period of time off for a new baby, so that shouldn't be a difference anymore. In  the long run, a month or two off for a baby over a lifetime career hardly means anything.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

OK a few things absent from the women's lib sections arguments about women getting paid less.

1. Men statisticly take of far less time than women (can be attributed to kids most often but the fact remains)
2. Not many men are going to leave a job due to pregancy for several months.
3. Men do and take the jobs that historicly are the most hazardous. (thus leading to a shorter life span and more diseases directly attributable to their jobs)

I'm not against women being paid as much as men assuming the work is equal, however, matching salaries for matching work needs to include the idea of total time/production.
However this quote bothers the hell outta me
"When jobs that women can do start paying as much as jobs women aren't physically capable of doing, maybe I'll change my mind. "
To expect equal pay you have to show equal work in my mind.
The idea that someone should be paid as much without regard to the value of the work to the customers goes entirely against my sense of logic.






< Message edited by ChainedExistence -- 7/29/2007 10:03:36 PM >

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RE: gender roles and $$$ - 7/29/2007 10:05:26 PM   
Archer


Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ChainedExistence

Sometimes the type of job has more to do with who takes off than the gender of the person with the job. My ex literally had to show up to work even if he was sick, so he could hardly take a day off to care for the kids.
As for taking off for pregnancy, men are now entitled to the same period of time off for a new baby, so that's hardly a difference anymore. And in the long run, a month or two off for a baby over a lifetime career hardly means anything.



1. True the nature of the work can make a huge difference , however whe those jobs are open who fills them when they tell the applicants that "you can't have time off for the kids XYZ" ? Men much more often than women in large part because men focus on their carear more than family.
2. The law does now "allow" for men to do so as well however it is in large part theoreticly possible, not many folks can afford for both parents to take the leave of absense and if the choice is one or the other how often is it going to be the dad?????

A month or two per child + sick child tiime + school time off for the kids times three kids can certainly add up to alot of time off as well as alot of missed opportunity for advancement.


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RE: gender roles and $$$ - 7/29/2007 10:09:09 PM   
defiantbadgirl


Posts: 2988
Joined: 11/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MagiksSlave


I dont know about the other women here but the only job a man can do that I am physically unable to do is produse sperm to fertalise an egg.

ms


You're capable of physically doing anything a man can do? Could you be a pipe fitter? Could you spend an entire day loading and unloading 100 lbs bags in the scorching heat? Could you lift a hide a bed couch and carry it up a flight of stairs by yourself? If so, you are very lucky and definitely in the minority.

_____________________________


Only in the United States is the health of the people secondary to making money. If this is what "capitalism" is about, I'll take socialism any day of the week.


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