RE: Gangbangers benefitting from military training?

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popeye1250 -> RE: Gangbangers benefitting from military training? (7/30/2007 1:36:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bschwimmer could happen again where I live they fought the gangs good andnow they are being sued by the NAACP Sued for what?

bschwimmer -> RE: Gangbangers benefitting from military training? (7/30/2007 1:37:38 PM)
For racism and racial profiling

popeye1250 -> RE: Gangbangers benefitting from military training? (7/30/2007 1:54:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bschwimmer For racism and racial profiling For what? Someone beat up or shot a drug dealer who was a different race from them? If you're going to kill a drug dealer for pushing poison to our youth does it even matter what their race is?

Gwynvyd -> RE: Gangbangers benefitting from military training? (7/30/2007 2:26:33 PM)
That is it exactly.. and why as officers of the law they had to put an end to Bobby Lou kicking the shit outa the gangbangers.. unfortunatly the lil scumbags have more legal rights then most victims. Thanks to drug money, and slimey lawyers... they can beat alot of raps, and cry for help. Like it or lump it the law has to be followed. Vigilantes can not be had in a town because the second one gets hurt the media and Bobby's parents will be on the department like the cheap suit on that lawyer. Does it suck? Yes... Do we all wish the gangbangers would just finally shoot each other all dead and go the hell away? yes we do... will it totaly end? Nope. It is like a social disease. Low wages, unemployemnt, hopelessness, undereducation...poverty... they all bred gang activity. So does boredom, and no youth activites in small towns t6hat do have resources. When your grandma said Idle hands are the Devils tools she was onto something. < got into pleantly of trouble "being bored" myself. > The police and authorites are bound by the judicial laws, and how they can and can not arrest criminals. Doesnt mean that the occasional pistol whipping of some little punk who almost shoots your ass as you are doing a security sweep of the projects because some other crack head ran off with the goods and passed by you didnt deserve it. smiles sweetly But you do have to work within the confines of the law... chuckles If a police officer gets shot in the line of duty it is tragic and they were doing thier job... If a citizen gets shot being a vigilante then why did the chief of police let crime get so bad the citizens had to take it into thier own hands, why didnt they stop the citizens from doing that? Why werent they protected.. blah blah blah.. shit rolls down hill. You try to keep the criminals out of your town.. but some times you just can't. Not and follow the law. This isnt the Old West. Though there were days I wish it had been. Would have made our jobs easier. The crime fighters can not break the law and become the criminals.. thats up to poloticans to do. Gwyn

solia -> RE: Gangbangers benefitting from military training? (7/30/2007 2:36:27 PM)
Since our military is made up of a cross section of our society, who's really surprised? I'd like to know if these three mentioned were prior gangbangers who went in and then came out with more skills and are now back to recruiting? solia

Sinergy -> RE: Gangbangers benefitting from military training? (7/30/2007 2:42:29 PM)
Not to derail a perfectly respectable thread by discussing how gangbangers would benefit from military training. Most cultures from ancient times to more modern times have had ritualistic practices which force a developing male (mostly) to do something risky and potentially dangerous before being accepted into society as a man. There is a developmental issue at work, if I remember correctly, because a young man, overrun with testosterone and adrenalin needs to learn that something exists outside of themselves and this can either be channeled into a beneficial purpose for our society. What we have done in the West over the past several hundred years has been to gradually remove all of those methods young men are welcomed into adult society. What ends up happening, when adolescents are not provided with some form of direction, is that these adolescents tend to form into bands where they can learn to cope with their adrenalin and testosterone. Hence the formation of gangs. Where I am going with this is that from what I have read, a mandatory manner in which adolescents can provide some form of public service would be extremely beneficial in turning out ethical and well mannered adults. The problem with the logic of those who claim we should force all young people into the military, which would be positive for the young people in question, is that our military does not need them. It would not be of a positive benefit for the military. This was the original purpose for the Boy Scouts, the original California Conservation Corps, the Peace Corps, etc., which allowed young people to find their direction in life; their place in the field so to speak. Sinergy

Gwynvyd -> RE: Gangbangers benefitting from military training? (7/30/2007 2:46:54 PM)
Niiice. That happens often. If they can't beat a rap in a different way they claim profiling. There are pleanty of white and hispanic pushers in my old county. Heck most of the large busts are hispanic or white these days. Spring through Summer all the grow houses are hit and you see whole families come out. Not a single one has been African American come to think of it. Only the small to mid time ops have been or the corner pusher. The mules, and runners are almost always Hispanic in my region too. Hell if we were to profile anyone it would be them. But we dont because we would be stopping every 3rd vehicle. Of course you can't say that in a court of law.. or to the ACLU.. because then every Hispanic drug dealer would hop on that bandwagon. I think if you are selling, pushing, or popping... and you get stopped and caught you should just fess up and realize you screwed up, you were caught. It wasnt because you have blue hair and are 5'9 that you got pulled over or searched.. it's just you were acting funny. Drugs do that to people. Carring drugs makes people nervous. You can tell because they are twitchy as hell. 90% of carriers are users. Only on big ops are the carriers not users... and then you have got to cover your ass, because those folks know how to use guns. Though there are some cities I would hate to try to drive through being African American... I guess race mattered so little to me as a officer I try to believe every one else thinks the same. Sad they dont. Gwyn, Who used to drink her coffee after being on duty siting on the lap of the biggest African American officer on the force. smiles

Real0ne -> RE: Gangbangers benefitting from military training? (7/30/2007 2:51:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sinergy Where I am going with this is that from what I have read, a mandatory manner in which adolescents can provide some form of public service would be extremely beneficial in turning out ethical and well mannered adults. The problem with the logic of those who claim we should force all young people into the military, which would be positive for the young people in question, is that our military does not need them. It would not be of a positive benefit for the military. This was the original purpose for the Boy Scouts, the original California Conservation Corps, the Peace Corps, etc., which allowed young people to find their direction in life; their place in the field so to speak. Sounds like a very excellent argument to reinstitute the citizens militia.

popeye1250 -> RE: Gangbangers benefitting from military training? (7/30/2007 2:53:45 PM)
Gwyn, I understand all that. But, I also believe in Vigilance Committees. Noone would stand around and "do nothing" if they saw a stranger grab a young child. But, they'll stand around and watch drug pushers sell drugs to kids that will kill them just as sure as a child molester would? If the bystander kills the child molester they're a "Hero." Why not if they kill a drug pusher? Because the drugs, "kill them slower?" I'm a big proponent of people getting involved. We can do things that cops can't do. If you were a drug pusher who'd you be more afraid of, two Police Officers comming after you or me comming after you with a .12 guage? All the cops would and could do is arrest you. People need to get more involved and the Police need to get a case of amnesia once in a while or just learn to turn off the radio.

Sinergy -> RE: Gangbangers benefitting from military training? (7/30/2007 2:54:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne Sounds like a very excellent argument to reinstitute the citizens militia. Is there a particular reason that we have to equate helping in the maturing of adolescents with the ability to kill people and blow things up? It is also an excellent argument to make them spend some time at a summer camp for underprivileged children, working for Habitat For Humanity, working at a soup kitchen, etc. Sinergy

Real0ne -> RE: Gangbangers benefitting from military training? (7/30/2007 2:57:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sinergy quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne Sounds like a very excellent argument to reinstitute the citizens militia. Is there a particular reason that we have to equate helping in the maturing of adolescents with the ability to kill people and blow things up? It is also an excellent argument to make them spend some time at a summer camp for underprivileged children, working for Habitat For Humanity, working at a soup kitchen, etc. Sinergy yep! Discipline and an education on how a republic is supposed to work and their responsibilites to that republic. Its helps to guide the rambo aspects and release the exact adrenalin you speakof to channel it to somethign constructive

Sinergy -> RE: Gangbangers benefitting from military training? (7/30/2007 3:00:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne yep! Discipline and an education on how a republic is supposed to work and their responsibilites to that republic. Its helps to guide the rambo aspects and release the exact adrenalin you speakof to channel it to somethign constructive Exactly. I would add "constructive to the body politic one is part of" at the end of your last sentence. Adolescents need to learn it really is not all about them. \ Sinergy

Real0ne -> RE: Gangbangers benefitting from military training? (7/30/2007 3:06:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sinergy quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne yep! Discipline and an education on how a republic is supposed to work and their responsibilites to that republic. Its helps to guide the rambo aspects and release the exact adrenalin you speakof to channel it to somethign constructive Exactly. I would add "constructive to the body politic one is part of" at the end of your last sentence. Adolescents need to learn it really is not all about them. \ Sinergy agreed i am not referring to a kid that is already a gangbamger i am referring to a kid that is the average joe kind of kid. A militia will give him a sense of belonging, let him know there are things that really are more way more important than just him. He will be mentally preparing several years before he is required to serve. This all serves to create a bond between man and country with a sense of honor and integrity and led by citizens would also get us back on track as far as a government is concerned while at the same time make it much more difficult for a gang banger to indoctrinate the kid because he already has his brothers in arms but for good deeds not crime. there moved my edited comments into this one so it makes sense Lol

Gwynvyd -> RE: Gangbangers benefitting from military training? (7/30/2007 3:36:38 PM)
I am all for people being more involved... Not like the 20 guys who beat the passanger to a pulp out in TX. after the driver accidently hit a kid. That was freaking ridiculous. did they even bother to check on the little girl first to see if she was ok, or just that the passanger was hispanic and beat the life out of him, with the other 1,000 bystanders cheering him on, and not helping him? I am all for community watches, and people taking back thier communities. I keep an eye on all the kids in my neighborhood.. I watch the preditor list. When one moved into our community you can bet your ass within a week he moved out. Was it fair I put undue pressure on him? Prob. not.... But there are waaaay too many kids here and he moved too close to a school, and was violating his parole by doing that anyway. In no way should citizens go up to gangbangers and take things into thier own hands. just a bad idea. But if you do see gang activity, or drug deals every one has a camera phone. Safely take picts, and call the police. If you see anyone being abused stand up for the person, and get the authorites involved. Be it a child, a man or a woman abused. I can not tell you how many times I have stepped inbetween some would be abuser and his target. < off duty and once I left the force. > I have harbored more victims of abuse then I would like to think there are. Gwyn

popeye1250 -> RE: Gangbangers benefitting from military training? (7/30/2007 3:36:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sinergy Not to derail a perfectly respectable thread by discussing how gangbangers would benefit from military training. Most cultures from ancient times to more modern times have had ritualistic practices which force a developing male (mostly) to do something risky and potentially dangerous before being accepted into society as a man. There is a developmental issue at work, if I remember correctly, because a young man, overrun with testosterone and adrenalin needs to learn that something exists outside of themselves and this can either be channeled into a beneficial purpose for our society. What we have done in the West over the past several hundred years has been to gradually remove all of those methods young men are welcomed into adult society. What ends up happening, when adolescents are not provided with some form of direction, is that these adolescents tend to form into bands where they can learn to cope with their adrenalin and testosterone. Hence the formation of gangs. Where I am going with this is that from what I have read, a mandatory manner in which adolescents can provide some form of public service would be extremely beneficial in turning out ethical and well mannered adults. The problem with the logic of those who claim we should force all young people into the military, which would be positive for the young people in question, is that our military does not need them. It would not be of a positive benefit for the military. This was the original purpose for the Boy Scouts, the original California Conservation Corps, the Peace Corps, etc., which allowed young people to find their direction in life; their place in the field so to speak. Sinergy Sinergy, good post! You do come out with some very good posts once in a while! Learning to shoot was a landmark to manhood in this country once. The huge misstake that is made today is trying to give young people self esteem by simply telling them they have self esteem. Self esteem comes from accomplishent. Ask any young man who just graduated Boot Camp.

Gwynvyd -> RE: Gangbangers benefitting from military training? (7/30/2007 3:47:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sinergy quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne Sounds like a very excellent argument to reinstitute the citizens militia. Is there a particular reason that we have to equate helping in the maturing of adolescents with the ability to kill people and blow things up? It is also an excellent argument to make them spend some time at a summer camp for underprivileged children, working for Habitat For Humanity, working at a soup kitchen, etc. Sinergy I think every one.. not just children should learn how to donate thier time to greater causes.. the poor, the elderly, the sick... we as a society have become a bunch of spoiled brats who dont realize just how lucky we are. Little alone our kids... Oi. even brattier. When was the last time you ran into an adult who had manners, and respect for thier fellow man, and had phone manners? Now.. they are passing all of that and much worse onto thier children. Most never find the time to raise thier kids.. little alone instill in them a sense of right/wrong or honor. It is like the money grubbing 80's on Crack. But with a teenagers angst and attitude. My son will be joining the Peace Corps or something like it. He already donates his time with the elderly. < he is 10 > He helps with the Kiwanis to which we belong. Putting a gun in thier hand, and teaching them that way wont nessasaringly fix the ills.. but having them help others, and the needy.. now there is a good start. Mind you my son will know gun safety, and which end to point where.. LOL I am a gun enthusist. But... If you dont instill values in your own kids how can you change the world? Gwyn

popeye1250 -> RE: Gangbangers benefitting from military training? (7/30/2007 3:54:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Gwynvyd I am all for people being more involved... Not like the 20 guys who beat the passanger to a pulp out in TX. after the driver accidently hit a kid. That was freaking ridiculous. did they even bother to check on the little girl first to see if she was ok, or just that the passanger was hispanic and beat the life out of him, with the other 1,000 bystanders cheering him on, and not helping him? I am all for community watches, and people taking back thier communities. I keep an eye on all the kids in my neighborhood.. I watch the preditor list. When one moved into our community you can bet your ass within a week he moved out. Was it fair I put undue pressure on him? Prob. not.... But there are waaaay too many kids here and he moved too close to a school, and was violating his parole by doing that anyway. In no way should citizens go up to gangbangers and take things into thier own hands. just a bad idea. But if you do see gang activity, or drug deals every one has a camera phone. Safely take picts, and call the police. If you see anyone being abused stand up for the person, and get the authorites involved. Be it a child, a man or a woman abused. I can not tell you how many times I have stepped inbetween some would be abuser and his target. < off duty and once I left the force. > I have harbored more victims of abuse then I would like to think there are. Gwyn Gwyn, I'm a retired fed (USCG) and alot of us were very frustrated working "within" the system. We caught TONS of drugs being smuggled into the country. Thousands of illegal aliens attempting to sneak in. And they estimated that we only stopped 10% of the drugs! Ten percent! Talk about an excercise in frustration. We know which countries those drugs and illegals are comming from. But this, and other Administrations continue to call the countries who have killed 5-10 million of our citizens through drugs, "friends." Where's the "War on Drugs?" Anyone seen it? I haven't heard of our military bombing Mexico City yet or Medallin, or Cartehena. If our federal govt took military action against these countries how long do you think they'd continue if one of their cities vanished every week? I think smuggling drugs into this country should be considered An Act of War. As far as I'm concerned once the CG determines there are drugs on a vessel retreive our boarding team and mount the .50 cal machine guns and "open fire!"

Level -> RE: Gangbangers benefitting from military training? (7/30/2007 4:39:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster Did someone say "gangbang" or was that just my imagination? Does your Perv-O-Meter know no bounds? Oh shit, I know the answer, don't bother. [:D]

EPGAH -> RE: Gangbangers benefitting from military training? (7/30/2007 4:44:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 Noone would stand around and "do nothing" if they saw a stranger grab a young child. But, they'll stand around and watch drug pushers sell drugs to kids that will kill them just as sure as a child molester would? If the bystander kills the child molester they're a "Hero." Why not if they kill a drug pusher? Because the drugs, "kill them slower?" I'm a big proponent of people getting involved. We can do things that cops can't do. If you were a drug pusher who'd you be more afraid of, two Police Officers comming after you or me comming after you with a .12 guage? All the cops would and could do is arrest you. People need to get more involved and the Police need to get a case of amnesia once in a while or just learn to turn off the radio. I'm a retired fed (USCG) and alot of us were very frustrated working "within" the system. We caught TONS of drugs being smuggled into the country. Thousands of illegal aliens attempting to sneak in. And they estimated that we only stopped 10% of the drugs! Ten percent! Talk about an excercise in frustration. We know which countries those drugs and illegals are comming from. But this, and other Administrations continue to call the countries who have killed 5-10 million of our citizens through drugs, "friends." Where's the "War on Drugs?" Anyone seen it? I haven't heard of our military bombing Mexico City yet or Medallin, or Cartehena. If our federal govt took military action against these countries how long do you think they'd continue if one of their cities vanished every week? I think smuggling drugs into this country should be considered An Act of War. As far as I'm concerned once the CG determines there are drugs on a vessel retreive our boarding team and mount the .50 cal machine guns and "open fire!" AMEN to that popeye, but sadly, KILLING our enemies seems to have gone out of style in, I'd guess the 90's? From law-enforcement to military, the emphasis is on a "kinder, gentler punishment"--and dodging lawsuits from the ACLU, NAACP, and the myriad Mexican troublemaking groups. (Even though most aren't legal, they CLAIM to be poised to be America's biggest voting-bloc...And since REAL Americans have to WORK, they have more money/free-time to devote to causing trouble and perverting our laws!) I would LOVE to see America simply vaporize buildings or even whole towns full of known terrorists or criminals, since the criminals won't tell us which ones are the bad guys, rather than risking police lives conducting dangerous house-by-house searches against enemies better armed than they are (to say nothing of the authority to USE those weapons), a more strident move would convince the next set of lawbreakers to tell us anything we needed to know...And if it didn't, keep blasting building-by-building or town-by-town until illegals stop flowing into America, they stop bringing their drugs, and some even turn in their fellows...Not out of fear, of course, but out of the respect BORN from fear...Putting America back on top. They already don't like us, but they must re-learn to RESPECT us, like they stray animals they behave as! Also remember, the Great Martyr, Rodney King started with a real bad attitude, and had a more pacifistic attitude BEATEN into him...At the end, he was BEGGING to "get along"--and even then, it took 4 police to administer that much beating! Don't you think other criminals might benefit from a quick "rehab" like that? (And yes, I DID read a similar post from you earlier on...) Sadly, as you pointed out, because the majority of criminals are a minority (pun intended), that implies "racial profiling"...Which has somehow become "bad". I'm confused, of course: Aren't you supposed to deploy your ever-dwindling resources against the ones who are most likely to do evil? Until the Police Departments of the world get the funding to make fancy anti-crime devices like in the movie "Wedlock" (Tiny bombs in criminals' heads detonated if they get too far from a central beacon...The ULTIMATE house arrest!), they'll have to keep relying on trailing the ones most likely to commit crimes. And yes, that means minorities, and those who have already committed crimes (Research has shown that recidivism is NOT just an academic concern!) So keep up the good fight, and kudos to you and all who are/were in law-enforcement! As an aside, I HAVE helped stop crime, although in a more slapstick way than intended...A Best Buy security guard was asleep on his feet, and I gave him a helpful push toward someone who was shoplifting...he ran INTO the shoplifter, whose shirt promptly disgorged all manner of items. One of the items landed on the guard's foot, waking him up enough to cart the would-be thief into the backroom...Wonder what happened there?

farglebargle -> RE: Gangbangers benefitting from military training? (7/30/2007 4:58:22 PM)
I'm guessing "Due Process" is something you sorta never really understood?

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