RE: To be a slave you must suffer, who the hell made this rule?!

RE: To be a slave you must suffer, who the hell made this rule?! (Full Version)

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Archer -> RE: To be a slave you must suffer, who the hell made this rule?! (8/2/2007 4:25:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MagiksSlave [I dont recall doing any thing if the sort, I refered to that thread because it most closley explained what I was talking about, I did read the entire thing but I wanted to provide a thread on the opposite view, you dont like it ok dont read my threads, you know that little X in the corner of the screen?? Use it!!! I wasnt trying to be judgmental I was simply giveing my opinion, NO where did I say anyone was stupid or bad for haveing a kink, in fact there are many posts here I made saying that it was a kink and that was fine but that it wasnt for me!!! Maybe you are the one that needs to read the entire thread. I am not close minded I just havent seen anything that has changed my mind and well I honestly dont think there is something that will, that doesnt mean Im saying people that like suffering or feel it is nessisery are stupid. I never one time said that one time, I did say I think testing anothers word is immeture and I still do beleave that, but that is my opinion... Its how I feel, and if you are so up in arms about me feeling that way and saying so what makes you so much better for comeing here and attacking me on it, kinda the pot calling the kettle black.... ms Isnt testing rather imature?? If testing is immature as you assert then those who require that knowledge be proven to them are imaature That is the exact evidence that you are being judgemental I dont think it is apropriate it is manipulative and childish and there is no need for it. Boiled down to the cruxt you are saying, as Mad Rabbit and I both are reading, MY WAY is mature and honest, Their way is Childish and dishonest (manipulative) Your statement: "honestly there is very little chance that anyone will make me think testing another persons word is anything more then a manipulative un trusting game..." Adds further to the judgement that those other people don't have trust and are game players.Again judgemental as hell. (and when several people not just one is telling you that the statement is in fact judgemental it's not time to drop into defense mode it's time to take another real objective look at your statements.) (also holds the idea that your mind is closed on the subject. So in review Your way is trusting, and mature and anyone who might have the genuine personality that requires proof are just childish immature untrusting game players. That is the way several folks have been trying through several ages to tell you you have been saying.

MagiksSlave -> RE: To be a slave you must suffer, who the hell made this rule?! (8/2/2007 4:33:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Archer quote: ORIGINAL: MagiksSlave [I dont recall doing any thing if the sort, I refered to that thread because it most closley explained what I was talking about, I did read the entire thing but I wanted to provide a thread on the opposite view, you dont like it ok dont read my threads, you know that little X in the corner of the screen?? Use it!!! I wasnt trying to be judgmental I was simply giveing my opinion, NO where did I say anyone was stupid or bad for haveing a kink, in fact there are many posts here I made saying that it was a kink and that was fine but that it wasnt for me!!! Maybe you are the one that needs to read the entire thread. I am not close minded I just havent seen anything that has changed my mind and well I honestly dont think there is something that will, that doesnt mean Im saying people that like suffering or feel it is nessisery are stupid. I never one time said that one time, I did say I think testing anothers word is immeture and I still do beleave that, but that is my opinion... Its how I feel, and if you are so up in arms about me feeling that way and saying so what makes you so much better for comeing here and attacking me on it, kinda the pot calling the kettle black.... ms Isnt testing rather imature?? If testing is immature as you assert then those who require that knowledge be proven to them are imaature That is the exact evidence that you are being judgemental I dont think it is apropriate it is manipulative and childish and there is no need for it. Boiled down to the cruxt you are saying, as Mad Rabbit and I both are reading, MY WAY is mature and honest, Their way is Childish and dishonest (manipulative) Your statement: "honestly there is very little chance that anyone will make me think testing another persons word is anything more then a manipulative un trusting game..." Adds further to the judgement that those other people don't have trust and are game players.Again judgemental as hell. (and when several people not just one is telling you that the statement is in fact judgemental it's not time to drop into defense mode it's time to take another real objective look at your statements.) (also holds the idea that your mind is closed on the subject. So in review Your way is trusting, and mature and anyone who might have the genuine personality that requires proof are just childish immature untrusting game players. That is the way several folks have been trying through several ages to tell you you have been saying. No that isnt what it boils down to, what it boils down to is you reading what you want to read into something, It wasnt how I ment it, i was giveing my opinion on it. I dont like testing and i wont be with someone who feels they need to test me. It is my opinion and Im entitled to it. ms

kyraofMists -> RE: To be a slave you must suffer, who the hell made this rule?! (8/2/2007 4:42:45 PM)
I didn't have to try and make you look like anything. You said: quote: I am more then happy to have done anything for him And yet those two threads demonstrate how inaccurate that statement is. You were not more than happy to be left alone at a party and you were not more than happy to only give non sexual service for him. But I guess "anything" means "as long as it is what I want and need". More than one person has told you how negatively you are posting on this topic and how close minded you are being. However, I have little doubt that you will steadfastly cling to "it's my opinion and I have a right!" This is my opinion and guess what? Through your own twisted logic, I have a right to express it. Knight's Kyra

MagiksSlave -> RE: To be a slave you must suffer, who the hell made this rule?! (8/2/2007 4:45:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kyraofMists I didn't have to try and make you look like anything. You said: quote: I am more then happy to have done anything for him And yet those two threads demonstrate how inaccurate that statement is. You were not more than happy to be left alone at a party and you were not more than happy to only give non sexual service for him. But I guess "anything" means "as long as it is what I want and need". More than one person has told you how negatively you are posting on this topic and how close minded you are being. However, I have little doubt that you will steadfastly cling to "it's my opinion and I have a right!" This is my opinion and guess what? Through your own twisted logic, I have a right to express it. Knight's Kyra OK so you want to pick apart my wording, maybe this is better wording then I would do anything for him weather or not it makes me happy "Im more then happy to do anything for him" is a term, i dont know if you have never heard it befor, but its a term that, to me at least means that I would do anything for him, and I would, however you are so keen on takeing every word in a literal sence ,so how I re wrote it above should be to your satisfaction..unless of course you want to pick that apart as well and try to prove that Im not sensear in what Im saying?? ms

kyraofMists -> RE: To be a slave you must suffer, who the hell made this rule?! (8/2/2007 4:56:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MagiksSlave I would do anything for him weather or not it makes me happy So you are willing to suffer and be put through tests if that is what he wants? Or did you mean anything but that? Knight's Kyra

MagiksSlave -> RE: To be a slave you must suffer, who the hell made this rule?! (8/2/2007 5:01:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kyraofMists quote: ORIGINAL: MagiksSlave I would do anything for him weather or not it makes me happy So you are willing to suffer and be put through tests if that is what he wants? Or did you mean anything but that? Knight's Kyra See this is where picking a compatable Master comes in handy, he would never do such things which is one of the reasons I took his collar to begin with, so this would never be an issue or something he would do, just like I wouldnt pick a Master who thought it ok to cut an arm off. if he would do such things I would no longer be with him because we would not be compatable. One of the reasons I want to do anything for him is because he wont have me do things that would harm or truely upset me... ms

Archer -> RE: To be a slave you must suffer, who the hell made this rule?! (8/2/2007 5:11:29 PM)
Seems like more than one person is reading your words the way I have summarized them in my last post. So it's not just me seems that the problem may well rest with the person encoding the message, since there are several people who are decoding it the same way. One True Way is "not testing" anything else is childish (your word) Imature (your word) Game playing (your word). That is what several foilks have read into your words so it's not "Me" putting it in there all by my lonesome. 4 opther people have called bullshit on your statements as reaking the foul odor of ONE TRUE WAYISM. So when one person calls you on something ignoring them is a perfectly logical option, howevber when 3 or 4 folks all call you on the same thing the logical MATURE thing to do is re-examine your statements and see if the problem is with you.

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: To be a slave you must suffer, who the hell made this rule?! (8/2/2007 5:23:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MagiksSlave would never do such things which is one of the reasons I took his collar to begin with, so this would never be an issue or something he would do, just like I wouldnt pick a Master who thought it ok to cut an arm off. if he would do such things I would no longer be with him because we would not be compatable. One of the reasons I want to do anything for him is because he wont have me do things that would harm or truely upset me... ms What about the recent dilemma when he disappeared for a few days during his crisis of dominance? Did he think that was going to make you happy? He chose to do something that he KNEW would upset you.

LATEXBABY64 -> RE: To be a slave you must suffer, who the hell made this rule?! (8/2/2007 5:25:01 PM)
i think to build great character you must suffer sounds more right the worst of times the best of times

SusanofO -> RE: To be a slave you must suffer, who the hell made this rule?! (8/2/2007 5:26:29 PM)
Aren't people who truly appreciate the sufferring of others (*outside of the meaning of the word in a run-of-the-mill BDSM context, which is the kind of "sufferring" most here I am assuming find pleasurable, and not horrible) called Sadists? If I got involved with a Sadist (and there are times I have actually contempleted doing it) I'd make sure I knew they were a Sadist before entering the relationship - 'cuz it's the kind of "major philosophy" (or at least BDSM actvity) difference - kind of like someone being "Poly or "Monogamous" - that can (I believe) really screw up a relationship, if the people involved don't know that about eachother before-hand. This relates to somebody willingly stating their "Limits" for the Master or Mistress upfront (and being taken seriously, which I believe many probably are, btw). In other words, unless two people haven't done this - I don't see why the initial scenario mentioned would be very common. **If you're just talking about a Master/Mistress "pushing someone's limits", I think that is* probably fairly common - it's not anything to get all upset about, maybe - but I think it might be something for the people involved to discuss, as far as it relates to the submissive or slave's "Limits" - If it bothers the submissive/slave. **I think some submissives and slaves might expect* their "limits to be pushed, and it might not bother them all that much if it happens (notice said "pushed" and not "crossed"). Some might hate it, too. Just my two cents. -Susan

useu4good -> RE: To be a slave you must suffer, who the hell made this rule?! (8/2/2007 5:26:41 PM)
Suffering is not normally something one would do of their own accord. If a slave suffers for her master, it shows her committment.

Wildfleurs -> RE: To be a slave you must suffer, who the hell made this rule?! (8/2/2007 5:29:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SusanofO Aren't people who truly appreciate the sufferring of other's Sadists? If I got involved with a Sadist (and there are times I have actually contempleted doing it) I'd make sure I knew the were a Sadist before entering the relationship, 'cuz it's the kind of "major philosophy (or at least BDSM actvity) difference, at times, kind of like someone being "Poly or "Monogamous" that can (I beieve) really screw up a relationship if the two peoploe don't knw that about eachother before-hand. I don't think you have to be a Sadist to accept that suffering is a bypart of enslaving someone and to be willing to see them through that period of suffering to get your way and have your decision/will upheld. C~

SusanofO -> RE: To be a slave you must suffer, who the hell made this rule?! (8/2/2007 5:36:32 PM)
Wildfluers: Okay. Fine with me if that's what you believe. You may have a point. But, I think maybe you misunderstood my post (perhpas I wasn't very clear, either). So are you saying you don't think it would be a wise move to know if somone is a Sadist before getting involved with them? Also please define your concept of the term "Suffering". *Does "Suffering" mean simply being asked to do something you don't like - or does it mean having your "Limits" completey violated? (please don't tell me you "don't have any "Limits". Even if you have your Master's limits, because you're a slave - you still have some "Limits", I imagine.) Hey - I'm willing to "Suffer" for a Master, too - within my prescribed "Limits" - and that is regardless of whether or not I'd find an activity pleasurable or not. A distinction I am making because, to my knowledge, we all still haven't defined the term "Suffering" collectively, in this thread. I thought I already stated I'd be willing to "suffer" for a Master - within prescribed "Limits". If we have a difference of opinion here (and I am not sure we really do) - this might be because I am a submissive/Switch, and not a slave - A distinction I am also making - and that I consider possibly pretty pertinent to a discussion like this one - which you also have conveniently managed to overlook in your response to my post (maybe not on purpose - but I do think it's pretty germane as a distinction in this thread. I also failed to bring it out as a point, so for that I apologize). I also already stated in my above post, that I think a Master/Mistress testing/"pushing" (as opposed to completely crossing, and therefore, violating) someone's "Limits" was perhaps acceptable to many people - but that it might not be considered acceptable by everyone. Frankly, I think it is one of the reasons people state they are submissives vs. being slaves (but that's a whole other discussion, probably.) Anyway - Please define for me the word "Suffering". I am not trying to be rude (I honestly am not), but -did you read my entire post?* Because I do really believe these kinds of points (above, that I touched on in my previous post) might be points to consider, as far as thiswhole thread topic goes. - Susan

MagiksSlave -> RE: To be a slave you must suffer, who the hell made this rule?! (8/2/2007 5:37:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross quote: ORIGINAL: MagiksSlave would never do such things which is one of the reasons I took his collar to begin with, so this would never be an issue or something he would do, just like I wouldnt pick a Master who thought it ok to cut an arm off. if he would do such things I would no longer be with him because we would not be compatable. One of the reasons I want to do anything for him is because he wont have me do things that would harm or truely upset me... ms What about the recent dilemma when he disappeared for a few days during his crisis of dominance? Did he think that was going to make you happy? He chose to do something that he KNEW would upset you. Actually he apologised and admitted he made a mistake, he didnt realise at the moment that he was hurting me he was actually takeing the time to try and think of what to do in order NOT to hurt me, he admited it was a Mistake and apologised, yup as you said yourself even Masters make mistakes. ms

kyraofMists -> RE: To be a slave you must suffer, who the hell made this rule?! (8/2/2007 5:39:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Wildfleurs I don't think you have to be a Sadist to accept that suffering is a bypart of enslaving someone and to be willing to see them through that period of suffering to get your way and have your decision/will upheld. I like the way you have put this. As a sadist there are times that he wants to challenge me and cause me to struggle. He enjoys it and gets great pleasure from it. As a master he is going to do his will as long as it does not harm others. Whether I like it, would want to do it without being instructed by him or whether it causes me to become upset will not impact his decision to do what he wants. As long as it is not harmful, my feelings about it will not deter him from doing what he wants. There are two different motivations at work. Knight's Kyra

Archer -> RE: To be a slave you must suffer, who the hell made this rule?! (8/2/2007 5:40:44 PM)
I thnik I've tried very hard to make sure people knew that I was not putting forth either idea as being one I personally hold to. I mearly stated that the idea was a viable perspective, not a perspective everyone should hold to but a valid choice of a way to view it. Some folks have the mindset that requires proof that the submission is real and not just theory. Scientific minds understand that concept well. Until the hypothisis is in fact tested it is just a hypothisis. Funny how the idea of the scientific method is being considered imature and childish instead of enlightened.

kyraofMists -> RE: To be a slave you must suffer, who the hell made this rule?! (8/2/2007 5:46:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MagiksSlave See this is where picking a compatable Master comes in handy, he would never do such things which is one of the reasons I took his collar to begin with, so this would never be an issue or something he would do, just like I wouldnt pick a Master who thought it ok to cut an arm off. if he would do such things I would no longer be with him because we would not be compatable. One of the reasons I want to do anything for him is because he wont have me do things that would harm or truely upset me... A piece of advice, stop speaking in absolutes. "I will do anything"... is an absolute and with your next post you demonstrate that it is not accurate "He won't do things that would harm or truly upset me"... is an absolute and with your next post you demonstrate that it is not accurate Absolute statements are rarely accurate. It would improve your communication skills greatly if you stopped speaking in absolutes. Knight's Kyra

kyraofMists -> RE: To be a slave you must suffer, who the hell made this rule?! (8/2/2007 5:49:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Archer Scientific minds understand that concept well. Until the hypothisis is in fact tested it is just a hypothisis. Funny how the idea of the scientific method is being considered imature and childish instead of enlightened. At least we are no longer seen as heretics and are burned at the stake eg Though that might make an interesting scene since I am a mathematician and a meteorologist. Knight's Kyra

Archer -> RE: To be a slave you must suffer, who the hell made this rule?! (8/2/2007 5:51:30 PM)
It's breaking on the wheel for you until you renounce heretical science and submit yourself to the One True Way. LOL Drink the Koolaid and recieve mercy, LOL

MadRabbit -> RE: To be a slave you must suffer, who the hell made this rule?! (8/2/2007 5:58:11 PM)
quote: No that isnt what it boils down to, what it boils down to is you reading what you want to read into something, It wasnt how I ment it, i was giveing my opinion on it. I dont like testing and i wont be with someone who feels they need to test me. It is my opinion and Im entitled to it. ms Unfortanely, words have definitions and we, being the educated adults that we are, are capable of reading them, thus creating communication. So when one uses the words "childish and manipulative" to describe other people's methodology in a relationship, you are, in fact, dismissing it as being "childish and manipulative". Generally, when someone wants to learn and discuss a subject, thus coming to a conclusion and forming an opinion, they wait until words are exchanged BEFORE actually forming and holding to the opinion. Since you have formed your opinion prior to the discussion, that makes this thread not really a discussion. Just mostly you exerting your opinion that what we are doing is "childish and manipulative". Childish and manipulative are negative values and therefore, one can draw the conclusion that what we are doing is WRONG. As far as providing the "alternate perspective", the only alternate perspective you graced us with in these forums is your negative prejudiced opinion that this methodology is "childish and manipulative". This thread has extended for pages of people producing highly articulated and logical posts, only for them to be dismissed by you as you ramble away at your keyboard, throwing out whatever whim is entering your head at the exact moment your fingers are typing, and horribly contradicting yourself. Sure, your entitled to your opinion. However, if I came to this thread and merely shared my opinion of "Your childish and immature" over and over again, I personally find that to be a really pointless thread.

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