Are they or aren't they submissive?

Are they or aren't they submissive? (Full Version)

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QuietlyIntense -> Are they or aren't they submissive? (8/8/2007 12:23:21 PM)
My first thread on the forums and I have an observation and question - and it doesn't have a blessed thing to do with submissives who don't answer emails and it's only vaguely sorta kinda about twueness . [sm=lol.gif] I have been interacting with people from the BDSM communities in my area and have encountered some young women who defy any label I can come up with. The closest I can come up with is a bottom, but many don't even seem to fit that. Yes I know labeling means nothing, but it certainly helps when you're trying to figure out if the person you are speaking with is even in the ballpark of what you are seeking. Anyway, quite a few of these young women who proclaim submissive status are insistent that they be treated as a princess, that they will not submit to the authority or will of a dominant except in maybe a kinky sex scenario. They are often rude, obnoxious and demanding when they've been treated politely and respectfully. They are self proclaimed princesses and demand to be treated as such. They even brag that it will take a tough, hardass dominant to get them to submit. I have met a wide variety of submissive women in my life and they were all very different individuals, but none of them were quite like these young women I've encountered lately. Understand that I'm not talking about thinking someone should be submissive to you until you've agreed to seek a relationship with each other. I am talking about behaviors that I imagine would make most dominants not even bother to pursue them at all because they aren't worth the trouble or headache. If you've got bad attitude, a list of demands and a wall three feet thick in front you, do you really think most dominants are going to want to try and get through that just to see if there might possibly be someone worth having a relationship with? For me, I don't like being around rude, pushy people of any sort, much less do I want to be in a relationship with one. I want a woman who wants to submit to me in a relationship, not have to be drug kicking and screaming into it. So enough rambling already Intense, get to your questions. Are these women really submissive or are they situationally submissive or are they bottoms or none of the above? And as a dominant, would you even bother with this type of female and hope beyond hope that there was a treasure underneath that rude, demanding exterior?

Estring -> RE: Are they or aren't they submissive? (8/8/2007 12:39:16 PM)
Sure they are... in their own minds.

MrDiscipline44 -> RE: Are they or aren't they submissive? (8/8/2007 12:40:54 PM)
quote: So enough rambling already Intense, get to your questions. Are these women really submissive or are they situationally submissive or are they bottoms or none of the above? And as a dominant, would you even bother with this type of female and hope beyond hope that there was a treasure underneath that rude, demanding exterior? I would say they're none of the above and not bother with such useless cunts. I mean really, what's the point? There isn't an ounce of service within them.

TallDarkAndWitty -> RE: Are they or aren't they submissive? (8/8/2007 12:43:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: QuietlyIntense Are these women really submissive or are they situationally submissive or are they bottoms or none of the above? And as a dominant, would you even bother with this type of female and hope beyond hope that there was a treasure underneath that rude, demanding exterior? They probably think they are submissive, or, at the very least, have submissive fantasies. They don't have a clue as to how to make these fantasies happen in real life, and are probably happy enough just getting men to do what they want. I wouldn't bother with this type of submissive. Usually, this type has no clue what they want, and won't for many years. Taggard

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Are they or aren't they submissive? (8/8/2007 12:44:29 PM)
Submissives can be assholes, too. Submissives, specially newbies, can often run into the problem of thinking if they APPEAR submissive in any way, that they will be taken advantage of, walked over and be totally repressed. Due to this fear and anxiety, they overcompensate to show just how strong and not needy they are and how they will not hold to the stereotype. The fact that most groups DO cater to the sub stereotype and DO force a lot of sub peer pressure to "act right" doesn't help the problem much either. They simply don't know/haven't learned how to be relaxed, soft, and comfortable in their submission. These are often the types you find wailing about how they finally let one guy "under their walls" and he turned out to be a total asshole. Their walls are a neon sign blaring to the smarter predators who know just how much those women really WANT to surrender. None of this excuses poor social behavior of course, but it's going to happen no matter what. And some of them are just rude assholes with kinky fantasies. The good news is that there are plenty of great matches for them out in the world.

kittinSol -> RE: Are they or aren't they submissive? (8/8/2007 12:45:50 PM)
I believe the name for people like that is 'brat'.

Padriag -> RE: Are they or aren't they submissive? (8/8/2007 12:47:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: QuietlyIntense Are these women really submissive or are they situationally submissive or are they bottoms or none of the above? Me personally, I'd go with none of the above. Some might be SAMs, some might simply be spoiled princesses with a sense of entitlement looking for a sugardaddy, and many are probably just immature young women playing around while exploring with no real purpose in mind other than having fun. Most likely I'd simply label them "to be ignored" and move on with my life. Okay, I might fuck them, fuck them over and leave them dazed and confused... but then I'm a bastard that way. You know what they say about playing with fire. [8D] quote: And as a dominant, would you even bother with this type of female and hope beyond hope that there was a treasure underneath that rude, demanding exterior? Given my above statement, my answer should be predictable. I'd rush right out and collect ten... kidding. I won't collar just anyone, so I think its very unlikely someone such as you describe would manage to earn my attention. But then I'm a froody guy who knows where his towel is, has his life together and has quite a lot to offer, so I expect a submissive interested in me to be on her best behavior... if that's their best... NEXT!

earthycouple -> RE: Are they or aren't they submissive? (8/8/2007 12:56:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: QuietlyIntense My first thread on the forums and I have an observation and question - and it doesn't have a blessed thing to do with submissives who don't answer emails and it's only vaguely sorta kinda about twueness . [sm=lol.gif] I have been interacting with people from the BDSM communities in my area *and have encountered some young women who defy any label I can come up with.* The closest I can come up with is a bottom, but many don't even seem to fit that. Yes I know labeling means nothing, but it certainly helps when you're trying to figure out if the person you are speaking with is even in the ballpark of what you are seeking. Anyway, quite a few of these young women who proclaim submissive status are insistent that they be treated as a princess, that they will not submit to the authority or will of a dominant except in maybe a kinky sex scenario. They are often rude, obnoxious and demanding when they've been treated politely and respectfully. They are self proclaimed princesses and demand to be treated as such. They even brag that it will take a tough, hardass dominant to get them to submit. I have met a wide variety of submissive women in my life and they were all very different individuals, but none of them were quite like these young women I've encountered lately. Understand that I'm not talking about thinking someone should be submissive to you until you've agreed to seek a relationship with each other. I am talking about behaviors that I imagine would make most dominants not even bother to pursue them at all because they aren't worth the trouble or headache. If you've got bad attitude, a list of demands and a wall three feet thick in front you, do you really think most dominants are going to want to try and get through that just to see if there might possibly be someone worth having a relationship with? For me, I don't like being around rude, pushy people of any sort, much less do I want to be in a relationship with one. I want a woman who wants to submit to me in a relationship, not have to be drug kicking and screaming into it. So enough rambling already Intense, get to your questions. Are these women really submissive or are they situationally submissive or are they bottoms or none of the above? And as a dominant, would you even bother with this type of female and hope beyond hope that there was a treasure underneath that rude, demanding exterior? Why does everyone have to have a label? As to your questions: How are we to know what they are we don't know them. For all we know they act that way with you because they aren't interested and are trying to turn you off. If you don't like them, move on. Someone will like them; I assure you.

QuietlyIntense -> RE: Are they or aren't they submissive? (8/8/2007 1:03:58 PM)
Thank you to all who have responded so far. MrD44, you are correct in that there seems to be no desire whatsoever for service, although a couple did mention that they would serve if there was something in it for them. Out of curiosity I inquired as to what they meant and they both said that they wanted gifts. Now I know that some dommes require gifts or tributes from submissives, but I don't believe I've heard of submissives who require gifts in order to serve or submit. heh! LuckyAlbatross, your post makes a lot of sense. There may be some who equate submission to weakness, but I'm truly starting to think some of these young women are out for sugar daddys who might play kinky in the bedroom now and again. Not an actual dominant. The funny thing is that most of these women aren't given much attention by the male dominants at the events I've been to, so they tend to flock together and act rather like a group of immature high school girls in the hallway at school. Loud and rowdy, trying to draw attention to themselves. And I also agree about the asshole description. quote: ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross Submissives can be assholes, too. Submissives, specially newbies, can often run into the problem of thinking if they APPEAR submissive in any way, that they will be taken advantage of, walked over and be totally repressed. Due to this fear and anxiety, they overcompensate to show just how strong and not needy they are and how they will not hold to the stereotype. The fact that most groups DO cater to the sub stereotype and DO force a lot of sub peer pressure to "act right" doesn't help the problem much either. They simply don't know/haven't learned how to be relaxed, soft, and comfortable in their submission. These are often the types you find wailing about how they finally let one guy "under their walls" and he turned out to be a total asshole. Their walls are a neon sign blaring to the smarter predators who know just how much those women really WANT to surrender. None of this excuses poor social behavior of course, but it's going to happen no matter what. And some of them are just rude assholes with kinky fantasies. The good news is that there are plenty of great matches for them out in the world.

windchymes -> RE: Are they or aren't they submissive? (8/8/2007 1:07:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: QuietlyIntense not even bother to pursue them at all because they aren't worth the trouble or headache. That makes a pretty good label, if you must have one. Especially with the Dymo Digital Labelmaker.

curvyslavegirl -> RE: Are they or aren't they submissive? (8/8/2007 1:10:52 PM)
I can be awefully rude and demanding when disrespected or faced with the slew of cyberstuds that tend to appear on places like this. It has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not I am submissive. Just as when a Dominant isn't always expecting the world to bow to his feet, i don't lay down and roll over for every guy who shows up with a Master tag attached to the front of his name. For example when someone sends me an instant message that says "is the slave slut there" or sends me some odd third person rant, I generally reply with something equally obnoxious followed by /ignore. There is nothing SAMish about me once the respect and authority is established, but those who assume they have my respect without establishing a relationship first are gonna get a healthy dose of bitch out of me! ;)

QuietlyIntense -> RE: Are they or aren't they submissive? (8/8/2007 1:14:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: earthycouple Why does everyone have to have a label? As to your questions: How are we to know what they are we don't know them. For all we know they act that way with you because they aren't interested and are trying to turn you off. If you don't like them, move on. Someone will like them; I assure you. If you read my post in it's entireity I acknowledged that labels mean nothing, but they do at least allow you to know if you're interacting with someone who might fit what you're looking for. I'm looking for a relationship, so obviously I'd rather not spend hours getting to know a woman only to find out that she is a lesbian dominant. We wouldn't be compatible as anything other than friends. Also, I'm not looking for an analysis of these exact women, who I would assume you don't know, but rather an opinion on the type of female who displays this behavior. Afterall, this is a discussion board, so I thought it would be an interesting discussion. [8\|] Oh and for the record, I'm not so arrogant as to think all of the submissives at these events will be fawning all over me. But like most guys, I'd like to think I have something to offer to the right woman.

QuietlyIntense -> RE: Are they or aren't they submissive? (8/8/2007 1:20:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: curvyslavegirl I can be awefully rude and demanding when disrespected or faced with the slew of cyberstuds that tend to appear on places like this. It has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not I am submissive. Just as when a Dominant isn't always expecting the world to bow to his feet, i don't lay down and roll over for every guy who shows up with a Master tag attached to the front of his name. For example when someone sends me an instant message that says "is the slave slut there" or sends me some odd third person rant, I generally reply with something equally obnoxious followed by /ignore. There is nothing SAMish about me once the respect and authority is established, but those who assume they have my respect without establishing a relationship first are gonna get a healthy dose of bitch out of me! ;) I am not talking about online, but real life interactions at BDSM events. And I firmly believe in treating everyone with courtesy. I am always polite to the ladies I approach either online or in real life. My Momma would smack me upside my dominant head if she found out I was rude to a lady. [:D]

windchymes -> RE: Are they or aren't they submissive? (8/8/2007 1:26:19 PM)
The thing is, with the young and impressionable brats and SAM's at the BDSM gatherings, pretty soon, they'll realize they aren't getting what they're looking for (sugar daddy, uberdom), or won't like what they do get. They'll be back next week, having reinvented themselves into some other personae. Hang in there, quality is better than quantity. :) (Hope that makes sense. My brain is all fogged from the heat & humidity. Blech.)

BRNaughtyAngel -> RE: Are they or aren't they submissive? (8/8/2007 1:31:11 PM)
I believe I know some of these ladies, so I understand the head scratching and trying to figure out if they are submissive or not. One of the first questions I've been asked by people in the local scene is "how do you identify?", so obviously some sort of 'label' seems to be important to others.

QuietlyIntense -> RE: Are they or aren't they submissive? (8/8/2007 1:40:56 PM)
Mmmmm Naughty Angel, you inspired many evil thoughts in me. [sm=evil.gif] If only your master had been willing to part with your gorgeous self.

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Are they or aren't they submissive? (8/8/2007 2:05:58 PM)
I definitely ask the question and I think saying "How do you identify" is a great way of putting it because it leaves all the choice up to you and doesn't try and box it into "dom or sub" language. And it's a good conversation opener. With someone like me who hates small talk, anything I can think of to make a good discussion starter will be used. It doesn't mean I think that their label is most important about them- or that I will force them to that label forever after.

MistressCass -> RE: Are they or aren't they submissive? (8/8/2007 2:06:04 PM)
I think you answered your own question within your question's text......you kept speaking of "young women"....it's "cool" to be submissive right now.....Give them a decade to mature and you might find one or two of them worth your time and effort.....until then, I would avoid the whole personality type....(Brat is putting it mildly)

Lashra -> RE: Are they or aren't they submissive? (8/8/2007 2:31:34 PM)
No I wouldn't bother with this type of a submissive. Basically they want to play a game of "break me if you can" and frankly, I do not have time for games. When I want a submissive, I want someone who truly wishes to submit not someone I have to wrestle and hogtie. ~Lashra

PairOfDimes -> RE: Are they or aren't they submissive? (8/8/2007 2:43:42 PM)
If they like to submit in sex or scenes, they are "sexually submissive," or "temporarily submissive," or submissive for purposes of play. This means that they like obeying orders, following direction, ceding authority, or getting overpowered and pushed around in scenes. If they like to get spanked and tied up but don't like to obey orders, follow direction, cede authority, or be overpowered even in scenes, they're bottoms. As for being rude, obnoxious and demanding, that's unfortunate. Submissives can be nasty people too, alas. In my mind, politeness and social skills are not qualities that define one's role or one's kinky desires (top, bottom, submissive, dominant)--they are, however, qualities that determine whether I want to spend my time around a person. I don't like to spend time around impolite people, and I'll only do it if there's some pretty serious personal gain. I also don't form relationships with people assuming that they will change for the better substantially, without evidence to support it--if a rude person wants to be in a relationship with me and assures me that he or she will change once we're together, he or she can start being polite now and then perhaps we can talk about having a relationship.

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