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Where do 'your' morals come from? - 8/8/2007 2:53:53 PM   
camille65


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Status: offline 		Can morality exist without religion?

I've been in a debate (for awhile now lol) on whether one can exist without the other. Are yours based upon religion? Can a society set a moral code & have it adhered to without the confines of religion?




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RE: Where do 'your' morals come from? - 8/8/2007 3:01:24 PM   
seeksfemslave


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Status: offline 		No doubt IMO that a moral view can exist without a religious wellspring.
As to the origin of a moral outlook; that I think is a question that currently it is impossible to answer.

The human brain is such a mysterious mechanism that the answer to such  a query will have to wait and IMO will probably never be known.

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RE: Where do 'your' morals come from? - 8/8/2007 3:01:24 PM   
girl4you2


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my morals are not based upon religion, but rather upon what i see as my own sense of right/wrong/good/helpful/contributory obligations to myself, those around me, and the world. i don't need any organized group to package them up for me, or to keep me adhering to them.



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RE: Where do 'your' morals come from? - 8/8/2007 3:06:19 PM   
sub4hire


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Status: offline 		Mine have nothing to do with religion.  Like girl4you2 stated.  Mine are within me.  I have a certain code I live by that I created for myself.  What I believe a decent human being is.  I follow them.
Well, within all confines of society today.
As well as personal morals.

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RE: Where do 'your' morals come from? - 8/8/2007 3:11:26 PM   
earthycouple


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Status: offline 		Not at all based on religion.  I didn't even know Christmas had anything to do with Christ til I was in my late teens and well, I couldn't have filled a thimble with what I knew about any other sects or religions.

I created my own compass I suppose.  There are people who feel I'm quite moral and others who think I'm deluded; so there ya go.  I just do what is right for me.  If I get an opinion that second guesses me then I may rethink things, but not always. 

I can't possibly see how my moral code could possibly be based on religion.  It is more likely based on law.  (Don't kill because you'll go to prision therefor killing is wrong).  Does that make sense?

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RE: Where do 'your' morals come from? - 8/8/2007 3:12:33 PM   
szobras


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Status: offline 		 Yes, I believe that morals do exist outside religious beliefs. There are virtues within my beliefs as with many beliefs. My "morals" are the in a sense the disciplines by which I apply these virtues. Religion and common social acceptability are perhaps another basis for morals, though I do not think absolutely the only mortar that binds or creates them.

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RE: Where do 'your' morals come from? - 8/8/2007 3:13:05 PM   
NorthernGent


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Status: offline 		Morals can exist without religion; moreover, I think you're on a sticky wicket if you adopt Christian morality as your guiding force.

a) Your wings will be clipped..
b) They will be clipped by an authority (not you).

As a consequence, you may as well be a slave cleaning my house; I pay well, so think about it.

My personal ethics are derived from a select group of thinkers: Aristotle, Machiavelli, Locke, Nietzsche, Berlin. I haven't particularly sought after them; I can't avoid them. I'm a Westerner, and that's that.

As an example, Christian morality suggests "Love thy God": well, fuck that. Personal ethics number one: self-determination.




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RE: Where do 'your' morals come from? - 8/8/2007 3:16:36 PM   
DesertRat


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Yes, morality can exist without religion. I am a 'devout' atheist, heh, and my morals come from some mish-mash I've cobbled together based on my life's experiences and observations of others. I have some kind of internal moralometer, or something.

Bob

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RE: Where do 'your' morals come from? - 8/8/2007 3:20:07 PM   
cuddleheart50


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Status: offline 		My morals come from my faith.

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RE: Where do 'your' morals come from? - 8/8/2007 3:21:50 PM   
camille65


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quote:

ORIGINAL: earthycouple

Not at all based on religion.  I didn't even know Christmas had anything to do with Christ til I was in my late teens and well, I couldn't have filled a thimble with what I knew about any other sects or religions.

I created my own compass I suppose.  There are people who feel I'm quite moral and others who think I'm deluded; so there ya go.  I just do what is right for me.  If I get an opinion that second guesses me then I may rethink things, but not always. 

I can't possibly see how my moral code could possibly be based on religion.  It is more likely based on law.  (Don't kill because you'll go to prision therefor killing is wrong).  Does that make sense?


Yup it does make sense. Now.. are the laws based on what religion (s) primarily say?
I feel like I'm unable to phrase what I'm really asking but I'm trying lol. It feels like many of societies laws are based upon what large religions have set as their moral laws. My friends argument is just that, that without the 'moral codes' that religion (s) have set in place the laws of todays societys and civilizations would be far different from what they are now.

Personally I grew up in an agnostic household and IMO I have a strong sense of right and wrong not based upon religion.

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RE: Where do 'your' morals come from? - 8/8/2007 3:23:32 PM   
camille65


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesertRat

~fr~
Yes, morality can exist without religion. I am a 'devout' atheist, heh, and my morals come from some mish-mash I've cobbled together based on my life's experiences and observations of others. I have some kind of internal moralometer, or something.

Bob


I'm right there withya. Does this hold true for society as a whole?

I think the heat is causing these mental musings so I'm glad for the response so far!

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RE: Where do 'your' morals come from? - 8/8/2007 3:24:41 PM   
KatyLied


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Status: offline 		Mine have nothing to do with religion.  And that is my preference.  A person shouldn't have to depend on a book to tell them what is good and bad.  It should come from within.

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RE: Where do 'your' morals come from? - 8/8/2007 3:25:27 PM   
camille65


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cuddleheart50

My morals come from my faith.


Would you mind going into a bit more depth on this? I am genuinely interested. Do you think you would be different if you held a different faith or belief system?
Dang I wish we could all be out on my deck drinking ice cold beer while discussing this! Or iced tea lol.

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RE: Where do 'your' morals come from? - 8/8/2007 3:29:55 PM   
camille65


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quote:

ORIGINAL: szobras

Yes, I believe that morals do exist outside religious beliefs. There are virtues within my beliefs as with many beliefs. My "morals" are the in a sense the disciplines by which I apply these virtues. Religion and common social acceptability are perhaps another basis for morals, though I do not think absolutely the only mortar that binds or creates them.


Ah  you understand what I am trying to ask! Where does it diverge? Where does it split between a personal belief system and the belief system that society seems to follow? Do you think that this works only on an individual basis rather than a group or whole?
Should I lay off any more pain meds today?

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RE: Where do 'your' morals come from? - 8/8/2007 3:30:19 PM   
cuddleheart50


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Status: offline 		I wish I could explain it to you better, but I find it hard to express here...If we were on your deck I'm sure I could explain it better...  too many eyes here...lol, and im not one for taking alot of critisim about my faith...so I will just leave it at that. 

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RE: Where do 'your' morals come from? - 8/8/2007 3:33:08 PM   
camille65


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From: Austin Texas
Status: offline 		I'm sorry. Truly there is no criticism coming from me, only curiosity and interest. I know it can be a touchy issue when a lot of people discuss something like this but I have high hopes that it won't come down to nastiness. (Probably delusional but hey I can hope can't I?)
I just want to understand.


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RE: Where do 'your' morals come from? - 8/8/2007 3:34:23 PM   
DCWoody


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quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

No doubt IMO that a moral view can exist without a religious wellspring.
As to the origin of a moral outlook; that I think is a question that currently it is impossible to answer.

The human brain is such a mysterious mechanism that the answer to such  a query will have to wait and IMO will probably never be known.




I had an interesting discussion with an american guy about a year ago on just this topic. He couldn't understand how I could have morals without being religious.....eventually boiled down to him not understanding/believing the concept of empathy. So that's my short answer, empathy.

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RE: Where do 'your' morals come from? - 8/8/2007 3:34:25 PM   
KatyLied


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quote:

If we were on your deck I'm sure I could explain it better...


Out on the deck with blender drinks we can all agree on everything!   


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RE: Where do 'your' morals come from? - 8/8/2007 3:35:49 PM   
cuddleheart50


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Status: offline 		Camille, you have mail.

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Dance like no one is watching,
Sing like no one is listening.
Love like you've never been hurt
and live like it's heaven on Earth.


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RE: Where do 'your' morals come from? - 8/8/2007 3:37:11 PM   
cuddleheart50


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

quote:

If we were on your deck I'm sure I could explain it better...


Out on the deck with blender drinks we can all agree on everything!   




I agree, now, where are those drinks!! 

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Dance like no one is watching,
Sing like no one is listening.
Love like you've never been hurt
and live like it's heaven on Earth.


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