RE: Gun control

RE: Gun control (Full Version)

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DarkWriter -> RE: Gun control (8/9/2007 7:24:25 PM)
Gun control laws are a cheap, easy way for a politician to look as if he is doing something about violent crime without confronting the issues. It is also a way to consolidate power into the hands of government. The one thing these laws do not do is protect anyone at all.

slaveluci -> RE: Gun control (8/9/2007 7:24:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Durus I have a question for you slaveluci. With your experience and ubringing when led you to the position of being antigun? Funny you should ask. Nothing in my upbringing did, of course. But, I was always kind of different from everyone I grew up around. I read constantly and thereby was exposed to many different ideas and philosophies than the ones I was taught at home and at school. Hey, I was a kid from rural WV and had subscriptions to the "Village Voice," "Utne Reader," "The New Yorker," and other similar publications. I grew up with a dad kind of like Archie Bunker. He wasn't a mean racist but he held some racist beliefs due to nothing but ignorance. There wasn't hatred in him at all, just no knowledge of people different than him. The "N" word was regularly used by him but, even as a kid, I somehow knew it was wrong. I can remember correcting him for using it. That went over like a lead balloon. No anger from him, just the thought that I was a dumb kid who just didn't know yet. So, kind of like the gun thing, I guess I came to my beliefs through a mixture of an innate sense of what I felt was right combined with all I had gleaned from my esoteric readings. If I had totally accepted all I was exposed to at home, I'd have been very right wing. Instead, I rebelled and got extremely left wing. Now, I've pretty much centered. As someone earlier said, I'm pretty left-leaning but have no issues with gun ownership................luci

Owner59 -> RE: Gun control (8/9/2007 7:43:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: EldroRolod A few points to make... and yes i know about guns. I'm a military instructor and teach people how to use a variety of weapons.. but the points are; more people die from car accidents each year than guns.. accidental shootings and murder combined. no one is trying to ban the car. (cars help people make money,.. its always about money) The most dangerous person with a gun is one who doesnt know how to use it properly. If someone wants to kill you, they dont need a gun. Thousands of people were hacked to death with machettes in africa for instance during tribal warfare. Its just another method to control the populace and keep the powerful powerful. I know how to kill you with a good ballpoint pen. Maybe we should get those dangerous devices off the streets. Kids who are properly taught about weapons dont accidentally shoot their cousin while trying to show off his daddy's pistol in the school yard. I'm all about protecting kids. I have 4 kids myself. But, it should start with teaching your kids what they need to know instead of letting them learn it from bubba down the street. That`s a stupid argument. Far more people are driving cars,then there are gun owners. And not for nothing,we regulate cars,the drivers,and the speeds.We always improve on safety when we can.And ,we don`t have a bunch of nuts ,saying we have to keep cars unsafe and dangerous(like w/ guns). Could you imagine am interest group(like the NRA) lobbying to make cars less safe,or lowering restrictions on age,speed,etc.? We test,tax,register,insure and police the driver,every day of every year,as we should.Why shouldn`t guns be "well regulated" ,as cars are? I live in one of the most restricted states in the union,NJ,and I like it that way.I have every gun I need,and unlike most of you,I have every gun I want<he-he>.I want there to be strong restrictions on who gets weapons.Those restrictions didn`t stop me,or anyone I know.What`s all the fuss,why are you scaredy cats so paranoid? Where, besides the NRA rags,are you guys getting all this about your guns being taken away? Isn`t there some place, besides the NRA nut house,that a gun owner to go?If not,that`s a sad assed statement.Wayne La Pierre w/ his jack booted thug comment...grrrr.A bunch of well financed conspiracy theorists/nuts,foisting there will on normal folks.

Owner59 -> RE: Gun control (8/9/2007 7:57:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GhitaAmati quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 You can only hope that your neighbor is as careful as you are. Which is why I live where I do...everyone within about 5 miles of me is related, and the few families who arent related have lived next door to each other we know eachother well enough to be considered family anyway. The peice of land I own is the same peice of land my family was on over 150 years ago, and except for the small part the governament claimed immenant domain on, the origional family land is all still in the family. Anytime someone dies or moves away, we buy it up before someone else moves in. Wow,....acres of open ,family owned land,nice...<jealous> Here in Jersey,I have an 80 x160 square foot lot,lol, I know,small.My house in NY state,(where my neighbor`s dog was shot),has ten acres,plus it butts up to state land.There, I have a rifle range,in NJ,everything changes b/c of the density of folks.So it makes sense,to have stricter rules,IMO.I can`t target shoot in my yard.

Owner59 -> RE: Gun control (8/9/2007 8:26:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: spkmepls Gun control doesn't keep guns off the streets and away from criminals.. i've been shooting rifles since i was a teenager and am licensed to carry a concealed weapon and do carry whenever i'm out alone. The liberals have taken over so much of the government and media that it's not PC to be pro gun any more than it's PC to be pro choice. Those who are afraid of guns are those who have never studied or used them as a sport. Our country won it's independence with guns and has maintained it's freedom with them..The recent home invasion that was so brutal here in CT could have resulted in the criminals being murdered instead of 2 beautiful teenage girls and their mother, not to mention their brutal rapes, if a gun was in the home for protection. Home security systems along with a dog are only deterrents... my S&W 38, or 357 allows me to take control of my own defense. I`ve said it before and I`ll say it again.A gun in your home is more likely to be used against a friend or family member(on purpose or by mistake),than on a perp.That`s right,there`s a greater chance that your gun will maim or kill a family member,or a friend,even you,then it will protect you from a perpetrator. "The recent home invasion that was so brutal here in CT could have resulted in the criminals being murdered instead of 2 beautiful teenage girls and their mother, not to mention their brutal rapes," Fine then,you can imagine the CT family protecting themselves with a gun.You then ,must also imagine that same gun ,killing or maiming one of the CT families`s members.You can`t divorce the two realities. And ,gun control laws do work.It`s the NRA gun nuts ,who undermine every effort to keep them away from criminals.The stupid paranoid bunch of NRA lobbyists in DC, are helping to arm criminals and thugs,as well as the "John Hinckleys" of the world.

Durus -> RE: Gun control (8/9/2007 8:48:52 PM)
You have a fundemental lack of respect for one of the oldest, and one of the largest, civil right orginizations in the US. Even then you can't say much bad about them other then name calling. Those bastards are trying to protect your constitutional rights! How dare they! By the way the 2nd amendment reads : A well regulated militia...meaning that the militia was to be regulated not that the right to bear arms was to be regulated. Why do you think they put "shall not be infringed" in there? Your "for the children" comments are specious as the number of children accidently killed by hand guns are eclipsed by any number of things with less value as tools. No one wants to see a child harmed but getting rid of guns "for the children" doesn't make much sense if your intent is to actually save childrens lives and not use tragics death to bolster an argument. The "for the children" slogan has become a popular phrase to replace reason like "Power to the people" or "make love not war". Show me how guns lead to crime and that gun laws work, or even that gun laws help save childrens lives. The fact of the matter is that you can't which leads me to wonder what you actuall motivation is for gun control.

Durus -> RE: Gun control (8/9/2007 8:54:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 I`ve said it before and I`ll say it again.A gun in your home is more likely to be used against a friend or family member(on purpose or by mistake),than on a perp.That`s right,there`s a greater chance that your gun will maim or kill a family member,or a friend,even you,then it will protect you from a perpetrator. Your saying it doesn't make it a fact. You are probably referring to the Arthur Kellermann and Don Reay study, "Protection or peril? An analysis of firearms related deaths in the home." (New Engl J Med 1986. 314: 1557-60.). It is a poorly done study with a flawed methodology and isn't treated as serious scholorship except for those people with an axe to grind.

OrionTheWolf -> RE: Gun control (8/9/2007 8:58:46 PM)
Owner59, that would be Kennesaw, Georgia and their burglary rates dropped dramatically too. Never anything about a burglar being shot either. Just knowing the 65 year old grandma was likely to have a shotgun, probably convined them to drive a few miles away to another town. Orion quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 quote: ORIGINAL: Cuffkinks The old saying is true..."When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns." The government needs to work on creating stiffer penalties for those who use guns illegally, rather than constantly try to create new laws that make it even more difficult for a normal, law-abiding citizen to obtain a permit to own/carry a gun. The guy who uses a gun to commit a crime is not the guy who is going to go to a gun safety course, get properly trained in firearm safety, apply for a permit and wait for it to be sent to him. Granted, there are other situations...Crimes of passion...etc, where someone might use a legal firearm to harm someone, but those cases are far fewer than those cases where a legal firearm has been used to protect oneself, loved ones, and/or property. I have My permit and I carry. I'm glad I carry. I will continue to carry until (God forbid) the anti-gun nuts get enough control of government that guns are outlawed. Then I will reluctantly turn in My weapons. Afterall, I'm not a criminal. Great,... let`s pass a law,like that nutty southern town,that every household have a gun in it.Only this time, we`ll go a step farther(better, in the eyes of an NRAer) and require an auto-matic grenade launcher, in every household. Cuffkinks: " I have My permit and I carry. I'm glad I carry. I will continue to carry until (God forbid) the anti-gun nuts get enough control of government that guns are outlawed. Then I will reluctantly turn in My weapons. Afterall, I'm not a criminal." Why are the NRAers so paranoid about the gov. taking their guns?No one has ever taken that right away,only regulated it,as it says in the Constitution. Thing is,most guns don`t protect people.You`re more likely to shot a friend or family member,then a perp. And there are plenty of people,w/ out criminal records,who abuse their gun rights.A couple years ago,someone shot off the lower jaw and tongue off my neighbor`s dog.It limped back home and had to be put down.God help the "gun nut" who did that,if I ever find him. Not saying you or anyone here would do that.But I`m pretty sure the guy who did, was a "pro gun nut"(to para-phrase Cuffkinks).

OrionTheWolf -> RE: Gun control (8/9/2007 9:00:52 PM)
A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed. Guess it is just toilet paper.

caitlyn -> RE: Gun control (8/9/2007 9:29:40 PM)
General, etc ... My favorite part of this quarterly CollarMe topic, is that my state will never pass a strict gun control law, and if the federal government passes one, people will ignore it. The police might get upset, but they are far too busy worrying about the darkness of window tint on my car. Now, back to your regularly scheduled thread. We still have ten pages to go before we hit quota, and as of yet, nobody has mentioned penis size as it relates to gun ownership ... and we can't do without that, now can we?

thompsonx -> RE: Gun control (8/9/2007 10:44:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 quote: ORIGINAL: Emperor1956 kitten, you lost me when you equated insanity with having firearms around little children -- insanity is having firearms around when the owner or likely users have no knowledge of guns, no knowledge of gun safety and no responsibility. Nothing in that film clip indicated to me the least bit of irresponsible gun use or gun ownership. I'm happily an anomaly - very liberal, very well educated, Jewish, too well off and a proud gun owner. I am a good shot (by choice with a shotgun, but I can acquit myself well with a pistol or rifle). I raised my daughter to know and respect guns. My wife, being visually handicapped, has no interest in them, but she was raised in a family with several guns used by her father and brothers for target shooting and hunting. E. I don`t know,the little kid with the Uzi,that was as dicey as Erwin, playing meat toss w/ a crock,while dangling his infant.Safe?Maybe.Wise? NO And do you really think they`d show any mis-handling or mis-fires in their movie? You have heard of editing...... If you saw video of actual shootings(mistaken,passion crimes,etc),would that make an impression on you?You don`t see much of that,you only see when things don`t go wrong,in films like that. I`ve walked away from hunting trips,because one the guys showed a serious lack of respect for guns and my safety.I`ve seen mis-firings and stupid acts.There`s no "do overs" ,with firearms. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxegEMWmNOA You might have seen this clip,but view it to the end,where the students scream"put it down!" It`s so funny.... especialy knowing he shot himself,with that shot. Owner: I think this video indicates that cops ought not to be allowed to play with guns.[;)] thompson

thompsonx -> RE: Gun control (8/9/2007 10:49:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: caitlyn General, etc ... My favorite part of this quarterly CollarMe topic, is that my state will never pass a strict gun control law, and if the federal government passes one, people will ignore it. The police might get upset, but they are far too busy worrying about the darkness of window tint on my car. Now, back to your regularly scheduled thread. We still have ten pages to go before we hit quota, and as of yet, nobody has mentioned penis size as it relates to gun ownership ... and we can't do without that, now can we? caitlyn: The only reason the cops hassle you about your dark windows is that they know you drive around nake(nake being the present tense of naked) and if the tint is too dark, well you can understand their frustration[;)] thompson

MasterDoc1 -> RE: Gun control (8/9/2007 10:50:12 PM)
My kids junior high school was drawing up a "bill of rights" for students. I had her propose the following (which was included). "Since a well-read student body is essential for having a good school, all students have the right to own books and carry them around." THe next day I had her ask: does this mean that if a particular student is NOT "well-read" they didn't have the right to carry and own books. Everyone said OF COURSE NOT! THen I had her put the 2nd amendment on the board: "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." Does that mean that in order to have a RIGHT to own and carry firearms that you have to be in a militia? Of course not! I am ENTITLED under the constitution to walk down the middle of the street with a gun. ALL gun control laws are blatantly unconstitutional. Let freedom reign! www.ronpaul2008.com

thompsonx -> RE: Gun control (8/9/2007 11:07:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 quote: ORIGINAL: spkmepls Gun control doesn't keep guns off the streets and away from criminals.. i've been shooting rifles since i was a teenager and am licensed to carry a concealed weapon and do carry whenever i'm out alone. The liberals have taken over so much of the government and media that it's not PC to be pro gun any more than it's PC to be pro choice. Those who are afraid of guns are those who have never studied or used them as a sport. Our country won it's independence with guns and has maintained it's freedom with them..The recent home invasion that was so brutal here in CT could have resulted in the criminals being murdered instead of 2 beautiful teenage girls and their mother, not to mention their brutal rapes, if a gun was in the home for protection. Home security systems along with a dog are only deterrents... my S&W 38, or 357 allows me to take control of my own defense. I`ve said it before and I`ll say it again.A gun in your home is more likely to be used against a friend or family member(on purpose or by mistake),than on a perp.That`s right,there`s a greater chance that your gun will maim or kill a family member,or a friend,even you,then it will protect you from a perpetrator. "The recent home invasion that was so brutal here in CT could have resulted in the criminals being murdered instead of 2 beautiful teenage girls and their mother, not to mention their brutal rapes," Fine then,you can imagine the CT family protecting themselves with a gun.You then ,must also imagine that same gun ,killing or maiming one of the CT families`s members.You can`t divorce the two realities. And ,gun control laws do work.It`s the NRA gun nuts ,who undermine every effort to keep them away from criminals.The stupid paranoid bunch of NRA lobbyists in DC, are helping to arm criminals and thugs,as well as the "John Hinckleys" of the world. Owner: Here all this time I thought it was Geroge Bush who armed John Hinckley.[;)] thompson

popeye1250 -> RE: Gun control (8/9/2007 11:27:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: spkmepls Gun control doesn't keep guns off the streets and away from criminals.. i've been shooting rifles since i was a teenager and am licensed to carry a concealed weapon and do carry whenever i'm out alone. The liberals have taken over so much of the government and media that it's not PC to be pro gun any more than it's PC to be pro choice. Those who are afraid of guns are those who have never studied or used them as a sport. Our country won it's independence with guns and has maintained it's freedom with them..The recent home invasion that was so brutal here in CT could have resulted in the criminals being murdered instead of 2 beautiful teenage girls and their mother, not to mention their brutal rapes, if a gun was in the home for protection. Home security systems along with a dog are only deterrents... my S&W 38, or 357 allows me to take control of my own defense. Spkme, one of the reasons I chose not to live in Massachusetts after I got out of the military was their restrictive gun laws. Instead, I moved to New Hampshire. Massachusetts has twenty times the number of house breaks compared to N.H. The bad guys know that it's very dangerous to break into a house in N.H.

Real0ne -> RE: Gun control (8/10/2007 12:04:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed. Guess it is just toilet paper. yeh where is our militias? i feel we should go back to it.

substobbws -> RE: Gun control (8/10/2007 4:21:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 quote: ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael quote: Until you can iliminate ignorance,we have to err on the side of children. Oh what evil stems from that sentiment. I take it you oppose sites like this and anything else of an adult nature on the internet, after all "we must err on the side of children". We shouldn't allow BDSM books to be sold in bookstores because "we must err on the side of children" Rapists use penisis to rape women, we should cut off penises to prevent rape. I mean "we must err on the side of children" People like you really REALLY scare me. I say that as a left wing liberal with socialist leanings that would terrify many here. Don`t be ridiculous.My comment was in regards to whether kids and guns are good idea,especially hand guns.They`re not.I wasn`t calling for a law or restrictions.I was saying that we have to err on the side of safety,when it comes to kids handling guns.That`s all,hot head. Your slippery slope argument is bogus.When there is a question,we always err on the side of children`s safety.Cut someone`s dick off,lol,give me a break.......... In the case of seat belts,as an adult,you can scoff all you want,and risk a ticket.But with a child in the car,you better strap them in(car child seat,seat belt,etc)or your ass is grass if they should get hurt.The laws to protect kids, supersede your right to be a scoff law.As the adult ,your responsibility to keep them safe is greater then your rights. Are you going to suggest that making a law like that one(to protect kids),is somehow infringing on your rights? Just look at these kids.How much you wanna bet their parents got them the pistol? http://www.videovat.com/videos/468/gun-safety-shoots-foot.aspx I'm seriously doubting the authenticity of that video. He asks "Whose handgun is this?" and then the rest of it just seems set it up for the ending. After saying "It's allright, dude." He 'accidentally' pulls the trigger on a double action? Do you realize how hard that would be to do accidentally? If you tried to lift that gun up out of your pocket by only the trigger, the weight of the gun wouldn't be enough to do it. You would have to SQUEEZE the trigger. What would the ground look like all around his foot? Stuff would still be falling out of the air and there'd be a dust cloud. I believe you're falling for something. I wouldn't be surprised if that was an air pistol. Gun control laws might work IF you had a time machine and could go back to the day the first gun was invented. I think this is the difference between idealism and realism. Gun control laws might "feel good" to you, but they won't solve the problem. If you can't remove them from society, I don't think there's a substitute for demonstrating to children exactly what a gun can do so they know when they come across one. I think just hearing and feeling the concussion from one going off does a lot to get the point across. At least by invoking children, and assuming that you would want whatever would provide the best net saving of human life, you must be coming around to supporting more concealed carry laws being voted in!

substobbws -> RE: Gun control (8/10/2007 4:31:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael Hey, I got an idea, lets ban drugs, that should REALLY reduce crime! Great example. When has the government ever been able to legislate the social beliefs of the people? LOL, I guess Prohibition meant that drinking was only morally wrong until the government figured out how many tax dollars it was missing out on, then it was OKAY! Just like that gambling via a lottery is only morally correct if the proceeds go to the "children." Government run lottery = good. You or I run lottery = prison time. Just like New Jersey recently passing it's smoking ban in all public buildings........EXCEPT casinos! LOL, whether your lungs are valuable or not as an employee depends on how much money the government is making off of the establishment you're working in! Like I tell people often, if you're going to base what you think is right and wrong on what is legal and illegal, you'd better be ready to change your beliefs on a daily basis.

substobbws -> RE: Gun control (8/10/2007 4:45:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: caitlyn General, etc ... My favorite part of this quarterly CollarMe topic, is that my state will never pass a strict gun control law, and if the federal government passes one, people will ignore it. The police might get upset, but they are far too busy worrying about the darkness of window tint on my car. Now, back to your regularly scheduled thread. We still have ten pages to go before we hit quota, and as of yet, nobody has mentioned penis size as it relates to gun ownership ... and we can't do without that, now can we? I agree with people circumventing a law when they deem it to be wrong. I do think it's extremely important not to try and not have laws on the books that don't reflect what the majority wants to begin with, though. While most of us would still own our guns if they were to be deemed illegal, what about the person who DOES get caught and singled out? It's like when you're on the side of the road getting a ticket for doing what the majority of the people are doing. That tells me that the law is wrong and that we're paying the government to be our adversary.

substobbws -> RE: Gun control (8/10/2007 4:50:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 quote: ORIGINAL: spkmepls Gun control doesn't keep guns off the streets and away from criminals.. i've been shooting rifles since i was a teenager and am licensed to carry a concealed weapon and do carry whenever i'm out alone. The liberals have taken over so much of the government and media that it's not PC to be pro gun any more than it's PC to be pro choice. Those who are afraid of guns are those who have never studied or used them as a sport. Our country won it's independence with guns and has maintained it's freedom with them..The recent home invasion that was so brutal here in CT could have resulted in the criminals being murdered instead of 2 beautiful teenage girls and their mother, not to mention their brutal rapes, if a gun was in the home for protection. Home security systems along with a dog are only deterrents... my S&W 38, or 357 allows me to take control of my own defense. Spkme, one of the reasons I chose not to live in Massachusetts after I got out of the military was their restrictive gun laws. Instead, I moved to New Hampshire. Massachusetts has twenty times the number of house breaks compared to N.H. The bad guys know that it's very dangerous to break into a house in N.H. Didn't the murder and crime rates in Australia go through the roof when they rounded guns up? They basically delared open season on innocent civilians.

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