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ORIGINAL: Marc2b

Why, I bet she probably stays home at night to literally shit on the American flag while masturbating to pictures of Michael Moore!
 
I always knew you were a total fucking asshole caitlyn!

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ORIGINAL: Level

~~ fast reply ~~

Do the ones remembering the dead due to the two atomic bombings also feel for those that died at Pearl Harbor, or the victims of Nanking?
 
Or don't those offer opportunity to bash America/the West?
 
Do those that remember the dead of Pearl Harbor, not also feel empathy for the civilians of Japan?
 
Or does that not allow for a feeling of pride?
 
 

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Roosevelt put an embargo on japam banning any exports of oil and steel to Japan and i think they were getting over 75%+ of their oil from us. That and they wanted japan to get out if china. Imagine the us losing 75% of its oil in a day. The only thing that could hurt them was our navy, and they neatly stacked at pearl ripe for the picking. We forced their hand.

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ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

Japan was copying the west. It militarized to guard against themselves becoming a western colony and then to have a supply of raw materials, just like western countries. This decision was taken not long after the USA imposed the unequal treaties, something the Japanese saw as a national humiliation.

Where it made the mistake was to treat the people in the lands they liberated from the west, worse than the west treated them.

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Japan was copying the west. It militarized to guard against themselves becoming a western colony and then to have a supply of raw materials, just like western countries. This decision was taken not long after the USA imposed the unequal treaties, something the Japanese saw as a national humiliation.

Where it made the mistake was to treat the people in the lands they liberated from the west, worse than the west treated them.

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So the western powers forcing Japan to open its borders was a social service and it had nothing to do with how Japan's view of the world changed from being an isolationist state to one seeing an empire as a way of defending itself from the charitable west.

So western powers were just cruising round south east asia civilizing the natives. How foolish of me not to realize that.

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ORIGINAL: Marc2b

Japan chose war. Japan fired the first shot.

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ORIGINAL: Marc2b
Why, I bet she probably stays home at night to literally shit on the American flag while masturbating to pictures of Michael Moore! 

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ORIGINAL: Marc2b

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So you do not feel that the American General Clair Chenault and the AVG flying American airplanes with American military pilots and American military ground crews killing Japs was firing the first shot?

No. Since Japan had already chosen war and invaded China. Not to mention Russia, Korea, and Manchuria. Face the facts: Japan was not an innocent in World War Two.

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ORIGINAL: Marc2b

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So you do not feel that the American General Clair Chenault and the AVG flying American airplanes with American military pilots and American military ground crews killing Japs was firing the first shot?

No. Since Japan had already chosen war and invaded China. Not to mention Russia, Korea, and Manchuria. Face the facts: Japan was not an innocent in World War Two.

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ORIGINAL: samboct

ROFLMAO

Thompson

Check your facts buddy.  The Flying Tigers were active for 6 months- Dec. 20, 1941-June 1942 before being disbanded. 
The AVG which was part of CAMCO (Central Aircraft Manufacturing Company)  changed its name to the "Flying Tigers" in December of 1941.
Did you think an organization of this size materialized overnight in China?

They did NOT engage the Japanese till after Pearl Harbor.  Note that Chennault was in China for several years prior as an advisor to Chancre Jack, and his tactics enabled the Chinese air force to defend against some of the predations of the Japanese, but these pilots were not the American Volunteer Group (AVG- and Volunteer my ass- they were very well paid mercenaries.) although I think there were some Americans involved- and Chennault may have done some shooting too.

The AVG was all American till "Herman the German" (Gerhard Neuman) went to work for them in 1940 I believe.
 
In the winter of 1940-1941, Pawley became involved in the recruitment and supplying of the 1st American Volunteer Group, later known as the Flying Tigers. AVG pilots were released from U.S. military service to serve as "instructors" for the Chinese; their employer of record was CAMCO, which also set up a factory at Mingaladon airport outside Rangoon to assemble the 100 Curtiss P-40 fighters sold to China to equip the AVG. From offices in Rangoon and New York City, CAMCO also provided housekeeping and record-keeping services for the AVG until its disbandment in July 1942.
Please note the dates on this document.
Recruiting the AVG
A tip of the virtual hat to Alan Armstrong, who forwarded these memos from the U.S. Navy files. "Inter-Continent" was the Pawley family holding company; it often served as a front for Central Aircraft Manufacturing Company (CAMCO) which was owned in large part by the Chinese. I have highlighted a phrase that suggests that Secretary Knox, at least, intended the AVGs to return to U.S. service eventually.
Procurement of Personnel for China
DEPARTMENT OF THE NAVY
Office of the Secretary
Washington
CONFIDENTIAL                                                      February 1, 1941
SUBJECT: Procurement of Personnel for China
     1. Mr. Pawley and Colonel Chennault called today and informed me that an agreement had been reached between Curtiss, Inter-Continent and the Chinese for the servicing of 100 P-40's for China. It is also agreed that Inter-Continent will handle the procurement of American personnel.
     2. Personnel requirements are:
             100 pilots
             150 enlisted ground crew.
     They emphasized the need for experienced personnel and the only feasible solution appears to be Reserve officers and enlisted men. They are ready to send [their?] people, Pawley, Leighton and Chennault, at once to the Air Stations, both Army and Navy, to find volunteers. They realize the necessity for keeping things quiet and will take due precautions.
     3. The followign will be required:
              (a) Approval by War and Navy Departments of resignations of Reserve personnel without detriment to their future status in the service, in order to accept employment with the Central Aircraft Corporation.
     Note: BuNav is ready to do this, but it will have to be taken up with the Army, and I understand that General Arnold has not yet been informed by Secretary Stimson. I suggest that you personally take this up with Secretary Stimson, and also with Admiral Towers, who is not very enthusiastic about the idea, I believe.
              (b) Deferment of draft through Mr. [illegible], inasmuch as these people will all be subject to draft as soon as released from Reserve status.
              (c) Passports to be cleared by State Department, the applicants requesting passports to China for employment with Central Aircraft Corporation.
     Note: I have taken this up with the State Department and they are willing to issue the passports to individuals as bona fide employees of Central Aircraft.
              (d) Pawley, Leighton and Chennault should have letters from someone in the War and Navy Departments, either the Secretarys or Chiefs of Personnel, authorizing them to visit the various Air Stations.
              (e) It was pointed out to me that this considerable organization would hardly be worth sounding out and estabishing unless there were an excellent prospect for further rlease of planes to carry on the work. They will have to start more or less from scratch in [illegible] and work their way in against probable opposition.

/s/ [illegible]
Introducing the recruiters
April 14, 1941
MEMORANDUM FOR Command Officer, Naval Air Station, Jacksonville
     1. This letter introduces Mr. C. L. Chennault, who has the permission of the Navy Department to visit your station.
     2. He will explain the purpose of his visit.
FRANK K. BEATTY
Captain, U.S. Navy
Aide to the Secretary
[Identical letters went to the Navy Air Stations at Opa Locka and Pensacola, Norfolk, and San Diego. Capt. Beatty used the same phrasing in letters introducing Rutledge Irvine of CAMCO to the air stations at Norfolk, Pensacola, Opa Locka, and Jacksonville, and Corpus Christi, and to the Marine Barracks at Quantico. Perhaps because of resistance to these early visits, he was more emphatic when it came to Pearl Harbor:]

August 4, 1941
MEMORANDUM FOR Captain James M. Shoemaker, USN, Commanding Officer, U.S. Naval Air Station, Pearl Harbor, Hawaii
     1. This letter introduces Lt. C. B. Adair, who has the permission of the Navy Department to visit your station. He will explain the purpose of his visit.
     2. It has been the policy of our Government for some time to facilitate the hiring by the Chinese Government of pilots and mechanics from our Services. The above-mentioned officer is a representative of the Intercontinent Company, which company is doing the hiring for the Chinese Government. The cooperation of the Commanding Officer is requested in permitting this representativde to interview pilots on your Station, to see if they are interested in being hired by the Intercontinent Company for service in China.

FRANK K. BEATTY
Captain, U.S. Navy
Aide to the Secretary
(By direction)

I must admit, I've never heard this particular excuse before- it's pretty funny.
I do not believe I said it was an excuse for anything...simply a statement of fact.

Sam