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Consensually against your will - 8/9/2007 8:58:53 PM

Smythe

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Joined: 12/31/2005
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I was just reading a thread about a certain DS activity, and it is one that I like!! But I like it a whole lot more now that I know that my boy likes doing it too. He would do it even if he didn't like it, most likely, but then it wouldn't be as much fun for me.

On the other hand, when I used to go out to dinner with a previous sub, I used to order him the worst thing I could find on the menu just for the fun of making him eat it.

Dominants, do you get pleasure from making your submissive do things they don't really want to do?

Smythe

_____________________________

Do not consider painful what is good for you.
Euripides

Post #: 1

RE: Consensually against your will - 8/9/2007 9:05:29 PM

thetammyjo

Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
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I think that's called SM with my current slave.

It isn't that I get pleasure from making him do something he doesn't like but more that I get pleasure from doing what I want, in other words by being the owner. I think we mutually get pleasure from this reenforcement of our authority dynamic.

I'm betting that even if he hated the food, the sub you mentioned in the OP got pleasure from the situation.

Words are often lacking to describe what it is that we do in SM and Ds because our connotations may differ from the mainstream definitions.

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TammyJo

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(in reply to Smythe)

Post #: 2

RE: Consensually against your will - 8/9/2007 9:21:55 PM

kiyari

Posts: 631
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Smythe

I was just reading a thread about a certain DS activity, and it is one that I like!! But I like it a whole lot more now that I know that my boy likes doing it too. He would do it even if he didn't like it, most likely, but then it wouldn't be as much fun for me.

On the other hand, when I used to go out to dinner with a previous sub, I used to order him the worst thing I could find on the menu just for the fun of making him eat it.

Dominants, do you get pleasure from making your submissive do things they don't really want to do?

Smythe

From the outside (of D/s) looking in, this does seem a common motif here in forums.

It is a large part of what I just do not understand, about the 'dynamic'.

The 'inferior' (sub/slave) must needs continually jump through hoops,
be required to do things known to be abhorrent to them...

...just saying: this is what I see

Not making any judgement calls LOL so, no flames por favor!

_____________________________

Black Water Dragon

(in reply to Smythe)

Post #: 3

RE: Consensually against your will - 8/9/2007 9:53:39 PM

SusanofO

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The only thing I can think of is "making" them have sex - other stuff, no.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 8/9/2007 9:54:00 PM >

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That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to kiyari)

Post #: 4

RE: Consensually against your will - 8/9/2007 9:59:27 PM

LadyHeart

Posts: 561
Joined: 5/7/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Smythe
On the other hand, when I used to go out to dinner with a previous sub, I used to order him the worst thing I could find on the menu just for the fun of making him eat it.

Hmmm.... wonder why he's not your sub any more...?
Seriously, the occasional activity "just because you can" is fun, but if the balance tips into a dynamic where the sub is always on the raw end of the deal, they generally vote with their feet.

:))
LH

_____________________________

"BDSM is not an excuse for bad manners."

(in reply to Smythe)

Post #: 5

RE: Consensually against your will - 8/9/2007 9:59:57 PM

ClandestinedOne

Posts: 91
Joined: 3/31/2007
Status: offline

In one of my switch modes i had a girl shove her thumb up her ass and suck on it. XP
I enjoyed most hearing her pleas of "no, please no". Since it was on the phone, she didn't have to do it, persay, but though she didn't want to, she obeyed. THAT was the sexy part.

_____________________________

Don't forget the tongue!

(in reply to SusanofO)

Post #: 6

RE: Consensually against your will - 8/9/2007 10:18:46 PM

velvetears

Posts: 2933
Joined: 6/19/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHeart

quote:

ORIGINAL: Smythe
On the other hand, when I used to go out to dinner with a previous sub, I used to order him the worst thing I could find on the menu just for the fun of making him eat it.

Hmmm.... wonder why he's not your sub any more...?
Seriously, the occasional activity "just because you can" is fun, but if the balance tips into a dynamic where the sub is always on the raw end of the deal, they generally vote with their feet.

:))
LH

i agree... a steady diet of having to do things i hated and i would be gone.

_____________________________

Religion is for people who are scared of hell, Spirituality is for people who have been there

(in reply to LadyHeart)

Post #: 7

RE: Consensually against your will - 8/9/2007 10:38:54 PM

gentlethistle

Posts: 186
Joined: 10/28/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kiyari

From the outside (of D/s) looking in, this does seem a common motif here in forums.

It is a large part of what I just do not understand, about the 'dynamic'.

The 'inferior' (sub/slave) must needs continually jump through hoops,
be required to do things known to be abhorrent to them...

...just saying: this is what I see

Not making any judgement calls LOL so, no flames por favor!

kiyari

On the face of it, this may seem peculiar to you....that anyone might actively seek out or be enthusiastic to perform something that they definitely don't like (in the action's own right). But think of it, perhaps, in the context of a vanilla couple deciding what to watch on TV or where to go to eat. Can you not imagine there being a perfectly 'normal' urge to sacrifice to the other's preferences....for the partner's pleasure....which in turn makes the person giving up their own preferences happy to know that the other will be happy (whether it's eating Italian rather than vindaloo, or watching golf rather than a Jane Austen costume drama etc etc). The parental instinct is another arena in which 'sacrifice' of one's own pleasure is regarded as entirely normal.

Personally, I see submissiveness as a sort of spectrum, rather than some sort of binary state that you either have or have not. But then I suspect sexual orientation is that way too. Social conditioning will probably tend to polarise people towards their own tendancies because they will be more likely to seek out relationships that enforce them [Edited to add that I meant 'reinforce' them...but the Freudian slip is quite funny] (perhaps...it's early in the morning, I'm probably talking tosh!)

Laura

P.S. Actually, personally, I'm not continually being asked to do things that are abhorent to me...although I may occassionally be asked to do things that I don't feel inclined to at the time...but that's just my own particular situation...other relationships will differ.

< Message edited by gentlethistle -- 8/9/2007 10:42:22 PM >

(in reply to kiyari)

Post #: 8

RE: Consensually against your will - 8/10/2007 2:03:51 AM

BeachMystress

Posts: 2156
Joined: 4/3/2004
From: Naples Island- Long Beach CA - Southern California
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I never make my sub do something he dislikes just because I can. I have to actually desire the activity or result produced. If I wish the activity or result, as long as it isn't on his list of hard limits it doesn't matter if he likes it or not. Matter of fact, earlier in our relationship I purposefully didn't find out his most or least favorite activities. I knew from our first meeting that he was someone I could fall in love with and didn't want to influence how I treated him as I fell in love. I waited until the relationship was stable and I knew I'd not let my newly tender feelings stop me from doing things he might not like. I wanted our relationship to develop as a full TPE one, and took steps to ensure such.

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*Do not threaten the weak. Intimidate the strong. ~ Stevenson*
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(in reply to Smythe)

Post #: 9

RE: Consensually against your will - 8/10/2007 2:38:37 AM

Wheldrake

Posts: 477
Status: offline

I've always thought that taking pleasure in inflicting unpleasantness on another person was the essence of sadism. The unpleasantness could be pain, of course, but forcing the lucky victim to eat the worst thing on the menu ought to qualify - a more subtle approach, if less dramatic. As a submissive, my idea of a good time is a situation in which I really, really don't like what is happening, but have no means of escape, other than perhaps a safeword for genuine emergencies. It's not just a matter of wanting to sacrifice myself for another person's pleasure: I get actual excitement and satisfaction from the experience of suffering, and from being made to do things that I would prefer not to. I don't know how common this approach is, but it certainly works for me. On the other hand, I wouldn't want life to become one long string of torments, miseries, and inconveniences. I'd never get anything done.

(in reply to gentlethistle)

Post #: 10

RE: Consensually against your will - 8/10/2007 4:32:10 AM

Stephann

Posts: 4214
Joined: 12/27/2006
From: Portland, OR
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It's a question of context. I've never heard of a masochist who looked forward to going to the dentist for a root canal. Think your slaves tough? Tell em you're going to pull their teeth with pliars.

Personally, I consider myself a Sadist; I enjoy making a masochist squirm. I enjoy adding fear to the exchange. What I don't enjoy, is the look on her face when it's so beyond her desires or expectations that it just makes her sick to think of it. In all of my sadistic activities, I think I need to implant a 'hook' for the masochist, to be drawn into it. That's what makes me different from the dentist.

So, for me, that means I enjoy using an axe during a scene.... but I wouldn't enjoy ordering them to eat their least favorite food for lunch.

Stephan

_____________________________

Nosce Te Ipsum

"The blade itself incites to violence" - Homer

Men: Find a Woman here

(in reply to Wheldrake)

Post #: 11

RE: Consensually against your will - 8/10/2007 5:24:58 AM

RavenMuse

Posts: 4030
Joined: 1/23/2006
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When it is easy it is just easy, when it is hard thats when there is something to really submit too!

Hell yes I enjoy it, something where the ONLY possitive thing they get out of it is that it is FOR ME. Raw submission. Lovely

I however quite agree with those who have commented that if that is all they got then they would walk... so they should as the Dominant wouldn't be addressing the vast majority of there needs and in a relationship BOTH sets of needs are important....In the overall scheme of things I try to ensure the needs of My girl are met just as much as I ensure Mine are. Thats more 'big picture' type assement.

But any particular moment, 'small picture', I can and will have them do anything that doesn't harm them wether they like it or not just because thats what *I* want, that is what she submits to.

_____________________________

This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.

Owner of metalmiss

(in reply to Stephann)

Post #: 12

RE: Consensually against your will - 8/10/2007 7:18:03 AM

LuckyAlbatross

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Only when it comes to pain play.

Otherwise, I can enjoy that they are doing it because it needs to get done, and enjoy that they are listening and abiding by my wisdom, but I'm not getting pleasure out of knowing they are disliking it- I want to INCREASE joy in their life as much as possible.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to RavenMuse)

Post #: 13

RE: Consensually against your will - 8/10/2007 7:27:10 AM

earthycouple

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Joined: 2/19/2006
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I'm always happier when we are both enjoying. Though I do enjoy a sadistic aspect of scaring someone or making them nervous. I do things that people say..."um ok, little concerned here, but you are the dominant" and that's cool...specially when they realize when it is over they loved the rush too.

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D~

Seeking, searching, hoping, living, loving, jumping. So what's new with you?

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Post #: 14

RE: Consensually against your will - 8/10/2007 7:33:07 AM

CreativeDominant

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Joined: 3/11/2006
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Yes, I enjoy making a submissive do something "just because I can". I believe that it helps to reinforce the D/s dynamic and, as a sadist, it gives me a definite pleasure to see the "squirm" over certain activities. There is also the idea that submission is not always about "being made" to do what you would do anyway...sometimes it is about doing it even when you do not like it/want to but in order to please the dominant, broaden your submission, and grow the dynamic.

That being said, it is not something I indulge in lightly or without thought nor is it something I "shoot for" each day. That seems to me like a very quick way to make the type of submissive I enjoy stop enjoying me and head for the door.

(in reply to Smythe)

Post #: 15

RE: Consensually against your will - 8/10/2007 7:39:46 AM

Grlwithboy

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Joined: 2/8/2005
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Absolutely. Not just things they hate but sometimes things that are completely absurd or stupid. Because I can.

I get to be an egomaniac sometimes because I want to. My slave, H, had to design a head-harness to hold a toilet brush and scrub his out like that. Totally pointless except I laughed heartily, and he likes having the job of making me laugh.

(in reply to CreativeDominant)

Post #: 16

RE: Consensually against your will - 8/10/2007 8:25:55 AM

slaveluci

Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Smythe
Dominants, do you get pleasure from making your submissive do things they don't really want to do?

Only if it's something that is going to bring Him pleasure. Master never does anything to me or has me do anything just because it's unpleasant for me. In His opinion, that's just doing it to flaunt authority or "prove" that He can and He sees absolutely no point in that. It's just not necessary.

However.....if there's something that He enjoys that is unpleasant for me, too bad for me. It's going to happen

. So, yes He does enjoy "making" me do things I don't like only if those things also bring Him pleasure. Making me eat something gross just isn't His idea of a good time, especially since He doesn't have a vomit fetish

..............luci

_____________________________

To choose a good book, look in an inquisitor’s prohibited list. ~John Aikin

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Post #: 17

RE: Consensually against your will - 8/10/2007 8:53:15 AM

BrutalMasterOne

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Well duh, of course. Consent is a strange thing. It is given but if not "forced" to do things you don't want to, or don't like, then is one a slave at all? So many, it seems to me are "tops, doms, Masters" who actually serve the slave. It should be and HAS to be the other way around. (at least for me)

(in reply to Smythe)

Post #: 18

RE: Consensually against your will - 8/10/2007 9:07:18 AM

LuckyAlbatross

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Joined: 10/25/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BrutalMasterOne
Well duh, of course. Consent is a strange thing. It is given but if not "forced" to do things you don't want to, or don't like, then is one a slave at all? So many, it seems to me are "tops, doms, Masters" who actually serve the slave. It should be and HAS to be the other way around. (at least for me)

IMO all good healthy people want to serve themselves and others in the world. It has nothing to do with Ms.

Service does not equal submission. Many great masters provide service for their slaves.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to BrutalMasterOne)

Post #: 19

RE: Consensually against your will - 8/10/2007 9:29:28 AM

LATEXBABY64

Posts: 2107
Joined: 4/8/2004
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I Consent there for I AM

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 20

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