RE: a sub as personal fitness trainer for Dom/me? can it work?

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RE: a sub as personal fitness trainer for Dom/me? can i... - 8/10/2007 10:58:47 AM

ocilla

Posts: 1764
Joined: 6/12/2007
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I appreciate you sticking to your post and expanding your comments. I look forward to hearing the responses. I agree that on some level the motivation has to come from me - and the way Najakcharmer describes her approach and motivation is similar to the way I work too. But there is soemthing about the boredom factor and the shere motivation of having a structure and agreement that can be helpful. It might be a good idea to put it into a written commitment of MOU. Just a thought - may help iron out wrinkles and put responsbility on the Domme. The topping fromt he bottom scenario is kindof what I am most wondering about - and hearing from subs is most helpful.

_____________________________

Ocilla

Nature is not a place to visit. It is home.
~ Gary Snyder

It takes a kinky village...

(in reply to dawntreader)

Post #: 21

RE: a sub as personal fitness trainer for Dom/me? can i... - 8/10/2007 11:09:42 AM

dawntreader

Posts: 3045
Joined: 11/23/2006
Status: offline

Greetings LA,

The examples you give do not require the same motivation and commitment as helping someone get into shape. Yes, the Dom is in charge but if he decides he/she does not want to excercise anymore - because of his/her position, he negates his appointed motivation ( the sub). That's why i said motivation must come from the Dominant first. Certainly use a submissives skills or their company but the Dominant has to already know they are going to see it thru for it to work - unlike the submissive who agrees to obey the Dominant regardless of the subs motivation for sucess.

Being on both sides of the kneel, surely you understand what i am trying to say~

_____________________________

It is choice - not chance - that determines our destiny~
Jean Nidetch

There is a war going on for your mind...if you are thinking, you are winning~
Flobots

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 22

RE: a sub as personal fitness trainer for Dom/me? can i... - 8/10/2007 11:19:48 AM

dawntreader

Posts: 3045
Joined: 11/23/2006
Status: offline

Greetings again Ocilla,

Thankyou. i too appreciated Najakcharmer's post. i too use mental imagery and focus to push past my limits and to alter my reflected image.

i think utilizing the skills and talents of one's submissive is certainly an excellent use of them. As i said to LA, even if it is just for companionship. But as long as we are talking about the D/s dynamic, the responsibility and motivation for this to succeed lies in the hands and mind of the Dominant.
Anyway, i am not trying to beat a dead horse or stand on a soapbox. But when you hear submissives talkinig about how Dominants make them do things and go to places of growth by their domination and then to hear Dominants wanting subs to do the same for them but not call it "dominating or topping" ....well, its a mindfuck - pure and simple

_____________________________

It is choice - not chance - that determines our destiny~
Jean Nidetch

There is a war going on for your mind...if you are thinking, you are winning~
Flobots

(in reply to ocilla)

Post #: 23

RE: a sub as personal fitness trainer for Dom/me? can i... - 8/10/2007 11:47:47 AM

Najakcharmer

Posts: 2121
Joined: 5/3/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: dawntreader
Anyway, i am not trying to beat a dead horse or stand on a soapbox. But when you hear submissives talkinig about how Dominants make them do things and go to places of growth by their domination and then to hear Dominants wanting subs to do the same for them but not call it "dominating or topping" ....well, its a mindfuck - pure and simple

I'm not submissive to a professor I sit classes with. I'm not submissive to a consultant I hire to decorate my house. Why would there need to be a submissive dynamic with a fitness consultant? The dynamic there is that they are doing me a service and giving me information, and I am using that service to better myself.

With the subbie personal trainer I had for awhile (he was a professional fitness trainer), he always addressed me very deferentially and encouraged me to push for higher reps with his confidence in my strength. We were pushing together. He made deferential suggestions and gave advice on nutrition and supplementation. It worked very well, and there was no question who was dominant in that relationship.

(in reply to dawntreader)

Post #: 24

RE: a sub as personal fitness trainer for Dom/me? can i... - 8/10/2007 11:48:03 AM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

No, I really don't. The dom can negate his own orders all the time- and in the case of many failed relationships (specially poly) certainly does.

Still not seeing how this type of situation would differ from any other.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to dawntreader)

Post #: 25

RE: a sub as personal fitness trainer for Dom/me? can i... - 8/10/2007 12:59:34 PM

dawntreader

Posts: 3045
Joined: 11/23/2006
Status: offline

Najak and LA,
i think you guys are missing my point.
Reading my prior posts on the topic, i think i have explained my point well enough...anymore debate, i will be beating the bones of a dead horse~

_____________________________

It is choice - not chance - that determines our destiny~
Jean Nidetch

There is a war going on for your mind...if you are thinking, you are winning~
Flobots

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 26

RE: a sub as personal fitness trainer for Dom/me? can i... - 8/10/2007 1:00:11 PM

interestingtimes

Posts: 57
Joined: 5/14/2007
Status: offline

That is such an interesting perspective ill be thinking all day on this one

(in reply to dawntreader)

Post #: 27

RE: a sub as personal fitness trainer for Dom/me? can i... - 8/10/2007 1:01:09 PM

littlebitxxx

Posts: 732
Status: offline

I am a personal trainer and my Master was owner of a TKD gym. While only a part time sub, living apart, I did help him with his own training, diet control, etc. I also sat in on his classes and watched the students and then made up training regimens for some of them as well. The dynamic between us was awesome. He was the Dom at all times....until we got into MY realm, then he deferred to me only in the sense that supposedly I knew more. It was always still respectful, I still got to call him Sir (it was a dojo), but we had a certain comaradery that worked well for us. He didn't always listen to me about the diet, especially when the Haagen Daaz was calling his name..lol..and yes, I gave him what-for because of it...but it was always in a lighthearted and joking atmosphere. We both knew what side of the coin we were on and carried that through the training sessions too.

p.s. I asked for my release last October and we are still great friends and trainer/trainee :)

Just because someone is a Dom doesn't mean he can't defer to his sub if she knows best in a certain area. The underlying D/s relationship doesn't have to suffer or disappear in those situations. It may actually grow stronger because the two are doing something different together. And the Dom can get a bit of a chuckle about him being the "trainee" for a bit.

_____________________________

There is no such thing as can't unless it is followed by yet

It is the meaningless little acts that become meaningful in the doing.

The people that mind don't matter and the people that matter don't mind.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 28

RE: a sub as personal fitness trainer for Dom/me? can i... - 8/10/2007 1:08:31 PM

dawntreader

Posts: 3045
Joined: 11/23/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Najakcharmer

[With the subbie personal trainer I had for awhile (he was a professional fitness trainer), he always addressed me very deferentially and encouraged me to push for higher reps with his confidence in my strength. We were pushing together. He made deferential suggestions and gave advice on nutrition and supplementation. It worked very well, and there was no question who was dominant in that relationship.

There is no doubt this succeeded because you wanted it to from the start. You utilized the skill and motivational abilities of your sub to achieve your goal. If he had to motivate you and you did not have the desire within you to achieve your goal - you could have dismissed him or commanded him to stop because you are the Dominant~
this is the point i am trying to make...a sub can only be motivation for the Dominant as long as they(the Dominant) allows it~

< Message edited by dawntreader -- 8/10/2007 1:11:02 PM >

_____________________________

It is choice - not chance - that determines our destiny~
Jean Nidetch

There is a war going on for your mind...if you are thinking, you are winning~
Flobots

(in reply to Najakcharmer)

Post #: 29

RE: a sub as personal fitness trainer for Dom/me? can i... - 8/10/2007 1:11:00 PM

Grlwithboy

Posts: 655
Joined: 2/8/2005
Status: offline

If my sub is an accountant and I insist that I do the taxes because I'm a Domme (and a mathematical idiot) because it's not his place to control my money, I just think that's stupid. I could hire a different accountant if this is too upsetting to our dynamic, but thank God it's not.

Theoretical, my sub is not an accountant.

(in reply to littlebitxxx)

Post #: 30

RE: a sub as personal fitness trainer for Dom/me? can i... - 8/10/2007 1:11:42 PM

NefertariReborn

Posts: 381
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ocilla

Ok, I have been commenting on other’s threads for a little while but this is my first to start so I hope to get some good feedback. I would like some opinions and advice in whether and how to make this idea work.

One service activity that I have been pondering as something a sub could help me with is in the role of a workout companion, cheerleader and personal trainer. I have had a few sessions with a personal trainer and found that there was a great deal that I did not even know, I did not know about working out. So now working out with a trainer is something I would like to do more regularly. I do not care for the type of trainer that just stands there and absentmindedly counts reps – or who tries to goad, yell or bully folks into pushing further.

What I am interested in is the wisdom of a person who has studied personal fitness and having the advice and guidance of how to do certain exercises, craft and track routines, rotations, and circuits, help me calendar workout time, some companionship for walks etc AND the high five kudos and compliments for being strong and completing reps etc… Imagine if Oprah’s Bob Green were her submissive - well in way he is her sub, and come to think of it so is that wormy Dr. Phil – but that is another issue.

Now the part that seems sticky is that in many ways one could be in a physically and even mentally one down position when working with a personal trainer. Have any of you ever had a submissive be a trainer for you to learn a skill or help you achieve a goal? I keep thinking it might be fun, if navigated just so and could bring an fun dynamic to the rest of the D/s elements in a relationship. But then it could be a total disaster. And also wondering if any subs have ever found themselves in such a position - and how it worked out.

Dang! You're in GA. I have a single sub friend who is a licensed personal trainer and a professional gourmet chef, but he's in Detroit. He'd have you in shape in a flash.

< Message edited by NefertariReborn -- 8/10/2007 1:13:49 PM >

(in reply to ocilla)

Post #: 31

RE: a sub as personal fitness trainer for Dom/me? can i... - 8/10/2007 1:14:22 PM

dawntreader

Posts: 3045
Joined: 11/23/2006
Status: offline

This is like nails on a chaulkboard...i am not talking about skills but the motivation aspect so necessary in a fitness program as opposed to accounting consulting, or decorating...

_____________________________

It is choice - not chance - that determines our destiny~
Jean Nidetch

There is a war going on for your mind...if you are thinking, you are winning~
Flobots

(in reply to Grlwithboy)

Post #: 32

RE: a sub as personal fitness trainer for Dom/me? can i... - 8/10/2007 1:21:01 PM

Grlwithboy

Posts: 655
Joined: 2/8/2005
Status: offline

Ok, but how do Dominants motivate submissives who really don't want to do something. And I don't mean not want as in "gee I don't care for pie" I mean not want as in pecans will close up their throat from allergy or their religion forbids it or they just WON'T.

You can't. You can cause someone to realize the importance of something, to you, to them, but there's always a kernel of self motivation for something like this. It's a question of encouraging it. Teaching, training, encouraging, are behaviors. I don't find behaviors D or S, I find HOW people commit them D or S, or the rationale behind them.

< Message edited by Grlwithboy -- 8/10/2007 1:22:22 PM >

(in reply to dawntreader)

Post #: 33

RE: a sub as personal fitness trainer for Dom/me? can i... - 8/10/2007 1:23:46 PM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

What about this example- my ex master encouraged me to get involved in other relationships. I was hesitant about this. I'd never been given such freedom before.

He could have done all manner of things to stop me, to make it harder for me- he could have said "I don't care that you made a date with Jim tonight, I need you here."

In fact, all of the people I dated at that time were made fully aware that he was first priority that that this situation might very well occur.

However, for him to do that would have negated what he claimed was his priority- me forming other relationships with others.

So I'm not really sure of the point- yes a master can certainly negate the orders he initially gives, it wouldn't be hard to do at all. But that doesn't mean it will happen, or that the sub can't still be effective in carrying out the orders, or that the dynamic has shifted at all. I understand you refuse to elaborate your point anymore, but I am hopeful this will explain my lack of understanding or perhaps someone else can help see the other side of this.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to dawntreader)

Post #: 34

RE: a sub as personal fitness trainer for Dom/me? can i... - 8/10/2007 1:34:50 PM

dawntreader

Posts: 3045
Joined: 11/23/2006
Status: offline

Thankgod!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That is the whole point! Motivation comes from within!!! That was the point i was making to the OP. As long as it was skills she was seeking and not motivation in the sense of the sub dominating the Dominant to do the workout~

Being focused on the goal and the higher good of both parties...

i have been in situations where i was told i was motivational but when it was time for the boots to hit the trail...well, only you can put yourself there, not anybody else...that is what i was trying to say. And even from the submissive standpoint - you have to want to succeed, to please, to obey...if you are not motivated, you render the Dominant helpless in your own situation~

_____________________________

It is choice - not chance - that determines our destiny~
Jean Nidetch

There is a war going on for your mind...if you are thinking, you are winning~
Flobots

(in reply to Grlwithboy)

Post #: 35

RE: a sub as personal fitness trainer for Dom/me? can i... - 8/10/2007 1:52:19 PM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

Ah ok. Well I agree, if a dom has NO motivation to do something, then foisting responsibility on the sub to get them to do it, likely only to fail, is a bad idea.

However, if a dom HAS motivation for it, and merely wants the sub to be there as a "spotter" "helper" "extra push" on days when things get hard- then that makes perfect sense. Discipline can be hard, discipline to change even harder. It makes perfect sense to use a sub as a helper in those cases and be an EXTRA motivator to keep things in line.

But this is no different than a dom telling a sub to do anything- the dom has to want that something in order for it to work. If he doesn't, it doesn't matter how good a job the sub does on it, the dom won't be happy.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to dawntreader)

Post #: 36

RE: a sub as personal fitness trainer for Dom/me? can i... - 8/10/2007 1:56:59 PM

dawntreader

Posts: 3045
Joined: 11/23/2006
Status: offline

Exactly!!!!!!!!!!!!

_____________________________

It is choice - not chance - that determines our destiny~
Jean Nidetch

There is a war going on for your mind...if you are thinking, you are winning~
Flobots

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 37

RE: a sub as personal fitness trainer for Dom/me? can i... - 8/10/2007 2:10:47 PM

feastie

Posts: 1793
Joined: 6/4/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ocilla

Ok, I have been commenting on other’s threads for a little while but this is my first to start so I hope to get some good feedback. I would like some opinions and advice in whether and how to make this idea work.

One service activity that I have been pondering as something a sub could help me with is in the role of a workout companion, cheerleader and personal trainer. I have had a few sessions with a personal trainer and found that there was a great deal that I did not even know, I did not know about working out. So now working out with a trainer is something I would like to do more regularly. I do not care for the type of trainer that just stands there and absentmindedly counts reps – or who tries to goad, yell or bully folks into pushing further.

What I am interested in is the wisdom of a person who has studied personal fitness and having the advice and guidance of how to do certain exercises, craft and track routines, rotations, and circuits, help me calendar workout time, some companionship for walks etc AND the high five kudos and compliments for being strong and completing reps etc… Imagine if Oprah’s Bob Green were her submissive - well in way he is her sub, and come to think of it so is that wormy Dr. Phil – but that is another issue.

Now the part that seems sticky is that in many ways one could be in a physically and even mentally one down position when working with a personal trainer. Have any of you ever had a submissive be a trainer for you to learn a skill or help you achieve a goal? I keep thinking it might be fun, if navigated just so and could bring an fun dynamic to the rest of the D/s elements in a relationship. But then it could be a total disaster. And also wondering if any subs have ever found themselves in such a position - and how it worked out.

Honestly, I don't see how on earth it could be a problem. Your submissive has a skill and knowledge of which you have need. It's just another use, isn't it?

Not much different than having one correct spelling or grammatical errors, when you think about it.

_____________________________

Snarky and loving it.

Disclaimer: Any views expressed in any post are my opinions only. They may or may not be yours.

(in reply to ocilla)

Post #: 38

RE: a sub as personal fitness trainer for Dom/me? can i... - 8/10/2007 3:24:05 PM

Najakcharmer

Posts: 2121
Joined: 5/3/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: dawntreader

This is like nails on a chaulkboard...i am not talking about skills but the motivation aspect so necessary in a fitness program as opposed to accounting consulting, or decorating...

*blink* Oh, I get it now. No, the kind of motivational relationship you're talking about is not something I have ever desired or sought out, or even thought about much. I don't need anybody supplying motivational help, only intelligent professional input on my program and physical spotting assistance. So that wasn't what I was looking for.

If it was what I was looking for, could a sub supply it for me without changing the dynamics of the relationship? I'm not so sure. Perhaps he could, if it was done in a sufficiently deferential "begging" manner with my best interests in mind. But if I really needed that, then I'm not sure I'd have the self-discipline and internal motivation to be a dominant in the first place.

I mean, everybody can use some motivational help, but if you really can't stick to a program without somebody behind you constantly pushing and bullying, how much discipline and control can you say you have over yourself, let alone another human being?

Asbestos suit on,

Naja

(in reply to dawntreader)

Post #: 39

RE: a sub as personal fitness trainer for Dom/me? can i... - 8/10/2007 5:05:14 PM

teamnoir

Posts: 226
Joined: 4/5/2005
From: San Francisco Bay Area California
Status: offline

Teaching and consulting, while apparently in the role of leader, are really about service - about following really well in my opinion. Modern therapy tends to focus on the therapist as facilitator who helps the client achieve their goals where the client is ostensibly in charge.

Pro doms have a similar thing, I think.

IOW, yes, I think it could work quite well.

(in reply to ocilla)

Post #: 40

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