Submission & Married Men

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DiannaVesta -> Submission & Married Men (8/14/2007 11:12:56 AM)
I recently posted this at Femsupreme and wanted to get your views here too. I’ve discussed this topic before a bit but wanted to once again revisit it. Over the years my ideas and concerns have changed. At first I had a hard time seeing married men and at one point refused, however as of late I have taken a very active interest in married men and training them. It’s actually a spiritual feeling I get over the whole thing and without sounding crazy that is exactly what I’m suppose to be doing. So let’s take “Mike”, for example. He has been married for 20 years, has children and has had an interest in female domination most of his life. He’s gone to see professionals, has had affairs that conflicted with his marriage and tired desperately to push his feelings away. He might be successful with this for a time but feelings of guilt and frustration quickly cloud his world. He often battles with depression and mood swings. It affects his entire world. He fantasizes about escaping, leaving his family and living as a slave where all of his worries are erased away. It’s an ongoing trap where no one is fulfilled; not Joe or his family. So I accept Mike for training. Training requires a commitment, so to speak to follow through various tasks. He is asked to build an altar not to worship so much as a daily point of focus. Now you’re thinking how can he so this with a family, right? An altar is simple a place in his home or office that he keeps fresh flowers and maybe a candle. Nothing metaphysical but a place he must look at daily and close his eyes to repeat (to himself) a short incantation. He is also given other task and taught various lessons in manners, massage, adoration, respect for women and even his diet. Mike has been overweight and not as healthy as he should be due to life’s stresses. He follows the lessons and he is also rewarded with the ability to safely and discreetly explore his fantasies in a cerebral and non-threatening capacity. He is asked to practice and perform simple acts of adoration for his wife. He can still feel the balance of being owned, his fantasy and yet it integrates with his existing lifestyle. Within a few months Mike feels better about himself and his relationship with his wife has become enhanced. Maybe not to the point where he can confess his submissive needs but in his daily actions. I’ve seen positive results from this. So I’m wondering your thoughts and feelings on this subject. If you’re a man that has served a mistress and felt that it’s enhanced your life then I would like to here from you too. Or if you do not have a mistress, you are married and have found your fantasies to conflict with your relationship and everyday life in some fashion or another.

LifeAdventurer -> RE: Submission & Married Men (8/14/2007 11:26:10 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DiannaVesta Training requires a commitment, so to speak to follow through various tasks. He is asked to build an altar not to worship so much as a daily point of focus. Now you’re thinking how can he so this with a family, right? An altar is simple a place in his home or office that he keeps fresh flowers and maybe a candle. Nothing metaphysical but a place he must look at daily and close his eyes to repeat (to himself) a short incantation. He is also given other task and taught various lessons in manners, massage, adoration, respect for women and even his diet. Mike has been overweight and not as healthy as he should be due to life’s stresses. He follows the lessons and he is also rewarded with the ability to safely and discreetly explore his fantasies in a cerebral and non-threatening capacity. He is asked to practice and perform simple acts of adoration for his wife. He can still feel the balance of being owned, his fantasy and yet it integrates with his existing lifestyle. Within a few months Mike feels better about himself and his relationship with his wife has become enhanced. Maybe not to the point where he can confess his submissive needs but in his daily actions. I’ve seen positive results from this. Having historically been one who believes in the message of Steven Stills' 70s hit song "Love The One You're With", I want to congratulate You for providing a true Goddess service that directs itself to honest self-improvement. [sm=applause.gif]

hereyesruponyou -> RE: Submission & Married Men (8/14/2007 11:28:07 AM)
interesting play on the idea. not sure what i think. i go back to the "if it feels like you're doing something wrong, you probably are" train of thought. Getting involved with someone who is married in any way opens oneself up to risks and complications. It's really a personal choice to me. If you feel fine about it i guess that's all that matters. Have you thought how you will feel if the wife becomes aware and it has a negative impact at that point??? just curious

earthycouple -> RE: Submission & Married Men (8/14/2007 11:45:41 AM)
I'd be cool with it if wifeypoo knew why she was getting all that cool attention and seeing his changes. He, in my opinion, should have been honest with himself long ago. As it stands now, he might be honest to his submissive needs and wants but not to his wife. How fair is he to her in lying, sneaking, and hiding? No matter what the benefit to me, I'd be pissed when I caught my husband.

DiannaVesta -> RE: Submission & Married Men (8/14/2007 11:55:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: hereyesruponyou Have you thought how you will feel if the wife becomes aware and it has a negative impact at that point??? just curious That can happen anytime, right? If he’s been harboring fantasies then he’s bound to have found an outlet and that can always present a risk. It’s up to him to figure out how to handle that. It’s been a long time but I remember getting a few calls and even a visit here and there from a client’s wife. Your number shows up or she suspects he’s cheating and follows him one day. Luckily both situations turned out ok and one of the women started up a friendship with me and we became great friends. We even went on vacation together once. There are women that find out and react badly but that is no fault of mine. It could be any situation. Imagine being married to a man 20 years and discovering a suitcase filled with panties, bra’s and videos that look horrific. Maybe if he’s more at peace, more balance and it actually enhances their relationship she won’t question why. I have one guy I’m training now with great results whose wife is flabbergasted. He said he wanted to tell her about me but I urged him not to. I honestly think that one day he won’t need me and they will go off to discover each other all over again. The biggest problem with sub males is that they are so needy and selfish. The training first teaches them not to be and to learn how to give pleasure to a woman rather only focusing on what they need.

DiannaVesta -> RE: Submission & Married Men (8/14/2007 12:07:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: earthycouple I'd be cool with it if wifeypoo knew why she was getting all that cool attention and seeing his changes. He, in my opinion, should have been honest with himself long ago. As it stands now, he might be honest to his submissive needs and wants but not to his wife. How fair is he to her in lying, sneaking, and hiding? No matter what the benefit to me, I'd be pissed when I caught my husband. What prompted me to take a closer look at this was a man I know from another board. He mentioned how much better his life and relationships were having met his mistress. In hindsight he should have thought about his interest before getting married but 20 years down the road and a few kids later he begins to realize things. Should he end a loving relationship, happy home and run into the unknown? I don’t think so. If he had to choose he could not. Does this mean he can have it all and must sacrifice what he feels is a very important need? If he explores his fantasies in a discreet setting that does not promote the same type of intimacy he shares with his wife and decides that he’s best suited for a full time life of slavery THEN by all means he should be honest and end it. If he explores them, finds a type of balance why not? I’m thinking the benefits very much outweigh the moral agenda. If I caught my husband screwing around I’d be furious and then I would wonder why he couldn’t talk to me about it. Then again you have men that out and out pigs that fuck anything that moves. That is a whole other issue. That poses another question if people will be honest about it.... "Have you ever cheated and why?" - Did it cause you to want to leave your partner or did you get it out of your system and move on?

earthycouple -> RE: Submission & Married Men (8/14/2007 12:12:23 PM)
I think I'd still be pissed about the whole not talking to me thing. I would worry that discretion isn't always as discreet as it should be. She could find out about you in a multitude of ways that would hurt her more (I'd think) than if he'd gone to her. As for cheating....I did that when I was younger...teens very early 20's younger I mean. Before I realized I could have a whole life of poly and be happy in it. I never wanted to leave anyone over it. I just wanted what I wanted and got it the wrong ways. There was no getting it out of my system. I'm poly. That's who I am. Today I am very honest in my poly.

DiannaVesta -> RE: Submission & Married Men (8/14/2007 12:18:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: earthycouple I think I'd still be pissed about the whole not talking to me thing. I would worry that discretion isn't always as discreet as it should be. She could find out about you in a multitude of ways that would hurt her more (I'd think) than if he'd gone to her. As for cheating....I did that when I was younger...teens very early 20's younger I mean. Before I realized I could have a whole life of poly and be happy in it. I never wanted to leave anyone over it. I just wanted what I wanted and got it the wrong ways. There was no getting it out of my system. I'm poly. That's who I am. Today I am very honest in my poly. You’re very lucky to have known and discovered your sexuality. The moral majority is taught that to shadow darkness on sex in general and our society breeds unhealthy views towards sex, especially kinky sex. Imagine when you were first embarking on your journey and how conflicted you felt feeling that what you were doing wasn’t right? I know I battled with it when I was younger and often thought about the white picket dream and abandoning my hidden fantasies because I thought they were wrong and would lead me down an inescapable path of ruin.

earthycouple -> RE: Submission & Married Men (8/14/2007 12:37:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DiannaVesta quote: ORIGINAL: earthycouple I think I'd still be pissed about the whole not talking to me thing. I would worry that discretion isn't always as discreet as it should be. She could find out about you in a multitude of ways that would hurt her more (I'd think) than if he'd gone to her. As for cheating....I did that when I was younger...teens very early 20's younger I mean. Before I realized I could have a whole life of poly and be happy in it. I never wanted to leave anyone over it. I just wanted what I wanted and got it the wrong ways. There was no getting it out of my system. I'm poly. That's who I am. Today I am very honest in my poly. You’re very lucky to have known and discovered your sexuality. The moral majority is taught that to shadow darkness on sex in general and our society breeds unhealthy views towards sex, especially kinky sex. Imagine when you were first embarking on your journey and how conflicted you felt feeling that what you were doing wasn’t right? I know I battled with it when I was younger and often thought about the white picket dream and abandoning my hidden fantasies because I thought they were wrong and would lead me down an inescapable path of ruin. Oh I abandoned for a bit too. It was horrible. I was the most miserable I've ever been which is why when I found my husband I made sure he knew who I am and what I need up front. So I could remain upfront, faithful and still be me. It works well for us...but there was a marriage where it wasn't like that. I didn't cheat on him...wanted to, but our marriage ended for a variety of reasons...not because one of us wasn't faithful. I came into my own about who I am, fully, around age 23...though I've been engaging in various forms of this lifestyle for about 13 years now. It is only today (in the last 5 years) that I've finally totally come to terms with who I am, who I want to be and how to get there.

DiannaVesta -> RE: Submission & Married Men (8/14/2007 12:59:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: earthycouple Oh I abandoned for a bit too. It was horrible. I was the most miserable I've ever been which is why when I found my husband I made sure he knew who I am and what I need up front. So I could remain upfront, faithful and still be me. It works well for us...but there was a marriage where it wasn't like that. I didn't cheat on him...wanted to, but our marriage ended for a variety of reasons...not because one of us wasn't faithful. I came into my own about who I am, fully, around age 23...though I've been engaging in various forms of this lifestyle for about 13 years now. It is only today (in the last 5 years) that I've finally totally come to terms with who I am, who I want to be and how to get there. You are a very courageous woman. I can tell from all of your post. Lets say those “other” reasons didn’t happen and you couldn’t share them with him because you knew it risked your marriage. That generally you were happy with your life and partner but harbored fantasies. Would you have eventually risked it and told him or kept them to yourself never realizing them?

thetammyjo -> RE: Submission & Married Men (8/14/2007 1:04:29 PM)
Dianna, to play off of what earthycouple brought up, do you ever ask these men to tell their spouses? Do you encourage them to do that?

DiannaVesta -> RE: Submission & Married Men (8/14/2007 1:09:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thetammyjo Dianna, to play off of what earthycouple brought up, do you ever ask these men to tell their spouses? Do you encourage them to do that? Yes, of course. I don’t encourage infidelity. When I begin a relationship with anyone I get to know them and understand what has been going on in their life. If I sense there is a chance for them to explore this together then by all means. When I take on any slave I want him/her to be the best they can be. To find happiness, peace and balance. That is the work I do first and when I reap benefits from it even better.

earthycouple -> RE: Submission & Married Men (8/14/2007 1:17:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DiannaVesta quote: ORIGINAL: earthycouple Oh I abandoned for a bit too. It was horrible. I was the most miserable I've ever been which is why when I found my husband I made sure he knew who I am and what I need up front. So I could remain upfront, faithful and still be me. It works well for us...but there was a marriage where it wasn't like that. I didn't cheat on him...wanted to, but our marriage ended for a variety of reasons...not because one of us wasn't faithful. I came into my own about who I am, fully, around age 23...though I've been engaging in various forms of this lifestyle for about 13 years now. It is only today (in the last 5 years) that I've finally totally come to terms with who I am, who I want to be and how to get there. You are a very courageous woman. I can tell from all of your post. Lets say those “other” reasons didn’t happen and you couldn’t share them with him because you knew it risked your marriage. That generally you were happy with your life and partner but harbored fantasies. Would you have eventually risked it and told him or kept them to yourself never realizing them? I would have and did tell him. Again...not the reason for the divorce...that's a whole other bag of worms. He knew who I was when we met. Told me he could engage. Never did. I supressed for two years. Finally said "can't do this any more either be who you said you were when we married or allow me to be who I am outside of this home." He "ok'd" my getting back into the "public" life of BDSM so to speak. I didn't have sex with others, I did find a partner who I was intimate with but not sexual. He knew. He didn't want details. I never lied about it. When the marriage ended I began anew.

chuckra -> RE: Submission & Married Men (8/14/2007 1:19:46 PM)
i have follewed this strain with much interest as i am one of those married men of whom Yyou Aall have been writing about. i may not provide any insights, but perhaps my story will shed some light on what motivates some of us. First, let me say that if i had had the opportunity to know about BDSM several years ago before i was married i would not have chosen to walk the path i have walked. However, i always had the fantasies, but never the words to put to them to describe them (BDSM). After 25 years of marriage i discovered the words, talked to Oothers Wwho knew what i was talking about, and began dabbling in it. i knew i had found me. i had talked about these desires of mine with my wife early in my marriage, but she refused to accept or pursue them. In fact, a few years ago she discovered some of my toys and threw them away rather then seeing how she could use them to her advantage. She is very closed to anythinig other than tradition sex - which, by the way, we have not practiced for several years. Relationships are too concoluted to explain them in a simple way. i was raised with the tradition of a committment is a committment. my marital relationship has, as i am sure many of you have guessed by now, been very stormy, very up and down. my wife is not an ogre, and really do not want to hurt her. Yet, if i do not pursue the BDSM in me, then i will be hurting myself. This month i will be moving out of state and we will have a commuter marriage. i see this as a positive thing for our relationship. i do plan on pursuing my BDSM needs as i need them badly. i do believe that this will only help my relationship with my wife as my deep seeded need will be met. i have no intention or desire for a romantic relationship, yet i know i will be very close to the Mistress i will find to serve. i have to finish quickly as i am in a library and my time has expired i will answer questions or give responses later - maybe even add more.

earthycouple -> RE: Submission & Married Men (8/14/2007 1:29:04 PM)
um...chuckra...good luck with that. Sounds like everyone getting hurt here. I hope you don't have children.

DiannaVesta -> RE: Submission & Married Men (8/14/2007 1:31:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: chuckra i have follewed this strain with much interest as i am one of those married men of whom Yyou Aall have been writing about. i may not provide any insights, but perhaps my story will shed some light on what motivates some of us. First, let me say that if i had had the opportunity to know about BDSM several years ago before i was married i would not have chosen to walk the path i have walked. However, i always had the fantasies, but never the words to put to them to describe them (BDSM). After 25 years of marriage i discovered the words, talked to Oothers Wwho knew what i was talking about, and began dabbling in it. i knew i had found me. i had talked about these desires of mine with my wife early in my marriage, but she refused to accept or pursue them. In fact, a few years ago she discovered some of my toys and threw them away rather then seeing how she could use them to her advantage. She is very closed to anythinig other than tradition sex - which, by the way, we have not practiced for several years. Relationships are too concoluted to explain them in a simple way. i was raised with the tradition of a committment is a committment. my marital relationship has, as i am sure many of you have guessed by now, been very stormy, very up and down. my wife is not an ogre, and really do not want to hurt her. Yet, if i do not pursue the BDSM in me, then i will be hurting myself. This month i will be moving out of state and we will have a commuter marriage. i see this as a positive thing for our relationship. i do plan on pursuing my BDSM needs as i need them badly. i do believe that this will only help my relationship with my wife as my deep seeded need will be met. i have no intention or desire for a romantic relationship, yet i know i will be very close to the Mistress i will find to serve. i have to finish quickly as i am in a library and my time has expired i will answer questions or give responses later - maybe even add more. Thank you. I really would like you to keep me updated on your journey and wish you luck along the way.

LadyPact -> RE: Submission & Married Men (8/14/2007 1:36:34 PM)
Ok, here's a great lesson in never say never.......... Right now, I have a married male who has been a casual play partner a couple of times. Let Me be very clear about two things. The first of which is there is no sex involved. Not even the strap on variety (yet) or any other sexual contact in any way. The second is this is the only male who has ever been able to live up to My requirements concerning his wife being fully aware of his activities. Yes, I talked to her, and even though she was a bit squeemish about the conversation, she acknowledged her husbands need for this and gave her consent. She has every invitation to talk to Me, or ask any questions that she would like. There is nothing to hide, and I've made it known that she can contact Me at anytime. That being said, I don't think I would ever consider him My sub. A well matched bottom for My kink, perhaps, but I don't forsee anything beyond that. He is fully aware that I will still be searching for a submissive of My own, and in the meantime, he is just a play partner. It fits Me, it fits him, and the wife has no objection. I like to inflict pain and be served. He enjoys receiving pain and serving. It's a good Top/bottom fit. Would I continue if I thought it would harm his marriage in any way? No, I wouldn't, and in ways, I hope it brings benefits, such as described by Diana above.

DiannaVesta -> RE: Submission & Married Men (8/14/2007 1:41:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact Ok, here's a great lesson in never say never.......... Right now, I have a married male who has been a casual play partner a couple of times. Let Me be very clear about two things. The first of which is there is no sex involved. Not even the strap on variety (yet) or any other sexual contact in any way. The second is this is the only male who has ever been able to live up to My requirements concerning his wife being fully aware of his activities. Yes, I talked to her, and even though she was a bit squeemish about the conversation, she acknowledged her husbands need for this and gave her consent. She has every invitation to talk to Me, or ask any questions that she would like. There is nothing to hide, and I've made it known that she can contact Me at anytime. That being said, I don't think I would ever consider him My sub. A well matched bottom for My kink, perhaps, but I don't forsee anything beyond that. He is fully aware that I will still be searching for a submissive of My own, and in the meantime, he is just a play partner. It fits Me, it fits him, and the wife has no objection. I like to inflict pain and be served. He enjoys receiving pain and serving. It's a good Top/bottom fit. Would I continue if I thought it would harm his marriage in any way? No, I wouldn't, and in ways, I hope it brings benefits, such as described by Diana above. Thank you Lady P! I've had the same type of arrangement where the wife knew and agreed even if it was reluctantly. I don't have sex with the married men I train. Not ever. I do think our style of play is intimate but it doesn't involve any exchange of body fluids or will I use a strap on othen to make him suck it.

Quietsub2 -> RE: Submission & Married Men (8/14/2007 1:42:45 PM)
I am a married man and a sub, and I have had several satisfactory short term relationships with dommes. It it something that I need in my life and cant get it in my marriage.

earthycouple -> RE: Submission & Married Men (8/14/2007 1:48:58 PM)
I have no problem with married...as long as the partner knows. My husband is fully aware of my activities and any partner I have must be willing to do same and show me. I don't buy the "but she says it's ok" and then I never meet her.

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