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RE: Scotland and Italy surrender to Islam - 8/21/2007 4:00:47 PM   
MissIsis


Posts: 473
Joined: 1/1/2005
Status: offline 		It never ceases to amaze me..... The stupidity of religious zealots trying to inflict their doctrine on everyone else around them.  If the religious zealots or any other group disapproves of, or is offended by the behaviour of others, they should just stay home & pray in their own little closet, where they can find some isolation & do the rest of us a favor. 

(in reply to SuzanneKneeling)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Scotland and Italy surrender to Islam - 8/21/2007 4:02:04 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

Understanding and making allowances for other peoples cultural beliefs is not a sign of weakness but a sign of maturity and confidence.

Philo,
This is a problem of fundamentally irreconcilable differences. Do you believe in the separation of Church and State concept? In Islam there is no separation. The most difficult part of Islamic Law for most westerners to grasp is that there is no separation of church and state. Islamic Law is controlled, ruled and regulated by the Islamic religion. The theocracy controls all public and private matters. Government, law and religion are one. The goal is a Muslim world. It's no different than the similar old goal of the Catholic Church. The difference is there are Muslim States where Shar'iah Law IS the law who have the ability and willingness to wage war on the 'infidels'.

quote:

Or can human nature accept outsider ideas if they turn out to be better?
Is there anything more intolerant than liberal views concerning tolerance?
quote:

Sheesh.......in the UK it's called politeness.
Distinguish this situation from the intolerance regarding Western norms and Islam's reaction say to an issue such as newspaper cartoons. Islam calls for death to the publisher, author, and artist; accomplishing the goal in the case of Amsterdam.

As a intelligent person, does the success of instilling fear in the West of antagonizing Muslims increase or decrease the idea that terrorism, or even the threat of terrorism works?

I appreciate your position of unilateral submission. The idea is representable to me, and doomed to achieving a goal of war between the cultures.

These aren't cases of "tolerance" they are examples of the intolerance of Muslims. I don't concern myself or worry about how a Muslim eats, what he reads, how often or where he prays, or how much they want to keep their woman as chattel. However, imposing their standards on my life and requiring me to accommodate them does not fall into the definition of tolerance.

I've eaten pork while in the company of Jews. I've had a beer while chatting with a Mormon. I put pepperoni on my side of a Pizza that I shared with a devote Catholic on Good Friday. I've shared Pennsylvania roads with Quakers driving horse drawn wagons. It seems that in many cases mutual "tolerance" works. However to support this position you must believe that within Islam and the Muslim people there is no similar capacity of tolerance. You know what - I happen to agree with you.

(in reply to philosophy)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Scotland and Italy surrender to Islam - 8/21/2007 4:04:57 PM   
SuzanneKneeling


Posts: 233
Joined: 8/31/2005
Status: offline
quote:

... it usually entails burning effigies of the Pope and of carmelite nuns...



Just thinking aloud... would that make the latter into "caramelized nuns"?

(in reply to kittinSol)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Scotland and Italy surrender to Islam - 8/21/2007 4:05:19 PM   
theq


Posts: 85
Joined: 6/17/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
Food has not been banned, people have only been asked not to eat at their desks. Being asked and being told is not the same thing at all.


I would still plan to eat at my desk. This December I still plan to tell those I pass by "Merry Christmas"...too.

(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Scotland and Italy surrender to Islam - 8/21/2007 4:20:47 PM   
theq


Posts: 85
Joined: 6/17/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
I've eaten pork while in the company of Jews. I've had a beer while chatting with a Mormon. I put pepperoni on my side of a Pizza that I shared with a devote Catholic on Good Friday. I've shared Pennsylvania roads with Quakers driving horse drawn wagons. It seems that in many cases mutual "tolerance" works. However to support this position you must believe that within Islam and the Muslim people there is no similar capacity of tolerance. You know what - I happen to agree with you.


I too have ate a slice of pepperoni pizza (putting a baby over it's mother's milk) over lunch with my friend who is a practicing Jew. He made some sort of light hearted comment about it but that was it.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Scotland and Italy surrender to Islam - 8/21/2007 4:24:58 PM   
NoirUMC


Posts: 132
Joined: 4/17/2007
Status: offline 		I can't believe I read enough of this to reach the end of it.

_____________________________

-J

Working around the clock to find new and entertaining misspellings

(in reply to theq)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Scotland and Italy surrender to Islam - 8/21/2007 4:27:58 PM   
Satyr6406


Posts: 820
Joined: 3/27/2006
From: New Brunswick, N.J.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Food has not been banned, people have only been asked not to eat at their desks. Being asked and being told is not the same thing at all.


I don't know about where you work but, being asked by your boss(es) IS being told.
 
 
 
 
 
Peace and comfort,
 
 
 
 
 
Michael

_____________________________

Peace and comfort,


Michael

Former Vice-President Gore didn't invent the internet but, he DID make up global warming!

(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Scotland and Italy surrender to Islam - 8/21/2007 4:47:25 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		Seen any good cartoons lately?

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to Satyr6406)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Scotland and Italy surrender to Islam - 8/21/2007 4:51:11 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Satyr6406

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Food has not been banned, people have only been asked not to eat at their desks. Being asked and being told is not the same thing at all.



I don't know about where you work but, being asked by your boss(es) IS being told.
 
 

 
 
 
 
 
Peace and comfort,
 
 
 
 
 
Michael


Many of you are missing the point of this. It isnt being asked so that it apeases (sp) Muslims world wide. It is being asked as a consideration to people working to save lives ( Lets not forget that ) in hospitals, who work along side you. Its not being asked for long term either, just for the duration of Ramadan. We have second and third generation citizens who are Muslims, and as people they should be due some consideration.
Back in April we celebrate St Georges day in England, our Patron Saint, many Muslims here celebrated that too.

(in reply to Satyr6406)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Scotland and Italy surrender to Islam - 8/21/2007 4:54:30 PM   
Satyr6406


Posts: 820
Joined: 3/27/2006
From: New Brunswick, N.J.
Status: offline 		I respectfully suggest that you're missing the point. I used to work at a career where saving lives was the goal and no one stopped eating meat, on Friday, in front of me. Or, to draw a more direct analogy: No one stopped eating chocolate in front of me because that is one of the things I had given up for lent.
 
Your religious beliefs are yours and personal and sacred (to yourself) but they don't add up to a hill of shit to me and they shouldn't be "legislated" to do so.
 
 
 
 
 
Peace and comfort,
 
 
 
 
 
Michael

_____________________________

Peace and comfort,


Michael

Former Vice-President Gore didn't invent the internet but, he DID make up global warming!

(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Scotland and Italy surrender to Islam - 8/21/2007 4:58:02 PM   
thornhappy


Posts: 8596
Joined: 12/16/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: susie

Interesting that none of this has been reported in the UK.

UPDATE: The hospital boards in Scotland have since denied the allegations against them, though they admit advising hospitals to consider avoiding working lunches during Ramadan if Muslims would normally participate in them, and to consider altering the route of lunch trolleys to accommodate “sensitive colleagues who adhere to the Muslim faith.”

thornhappy

(in reply to susie)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Scotland and Italy surrender to Islam - 8/21/2007 5:04:57 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		Satyr i fully agree with you. That said, if i was asked to stop for a short time due to the consideration of others, it truly wouldnt be a big deal, and as i said before, it is only something thats being asked of people.
Now if someone said you can never eat at work again as it offends other cultures, to me that is completely different.

(in reply to thornhappy)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Scotland and Italy surrender to Islam - 8/21/2007 5:08:02 PM   
MissIsis


Posts: 473
Joined: 1/1/2005
Status: offline 		Why should anyone be asked to be considerate of anyone's religious beliefs to save lives?  Why should we need to?  If they are offended so much that these religious nuts want to kill others for not respecting their beliefs, perhaps a psych evaluation is in order & these people should be locked up in an institution, or be given drugs to make them docile enough not to harm others.  Maybe the laws should be strengthened, so there is a harsher deterent to harming others.  

(in reply to thornhappy)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Scotland and Italy surrender to Islam - 8/21/2007 5:15:39 PM   
Satyr6406


Posts: 820
Joined: 3/27/2006
From: New Brunswick, N.J.
Status: offline 		Well, here's where one of my favorite subjects comes into play: inter-personal communication.
 
If a friend of mine, on the job, who was muslim asked me to not eat in front of him or some of the others, I would probably consent but, for the "boss" to remove vending machines and advise me not to eat at my desk (if it's something that I am used to and, let's remember: a worker that eats at their desk, usually does more work so it is NOT in the "boss'" best interest), is just not right. Why not let people work things out amongst themselves, instead of "legislating" it.
 
 
 
 
 
 
Peace and comfort,
 
 
 
 
 
Michael

_____________________________

Peace and comfort,


Michael

Former Vice-President Gore didn't invent the internet but, he DID make up global warming!

(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Scotland and Italy surrender to Islam - 8/21/2007 5:22:03 PM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline
quote:

I've shared Pennsylvania roads with Quakers driving horse drawn wagons.


What did they do, beat up the Amish and take their buggies?

(in reply to Satyr6406)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Scotland and Italy surrender to Islam - 8/21/2007 5:30:14 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		“Oh, those Amish are so industrious, unlike those shiftless Mennonites,”

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Alumbrado)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Scotland and Italy surrender to Islam - 8/21/2007 5:45:22 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

in the UK it's called politeness. Not offering offence to others un-necessarily. Apparently passing up the opportunity to be rude is seen as bowing to fascism by some



       Just so I'm clear here, Phil, you would be in agreement that the Islamic Communities, especially those in the US, might want to consider toning down the parties scheduled for September 11?

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to philosophy)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Scotland and Italy surrender to Islam - 8/21/2007 5:58:01 PM   
JackM1


Posts: 137
Joined: 2/3/2007
Status: offline 		oh please. as a(now happily former) highschool student, i can vividly remember my muslim friends and schoolmates simply DEALING with going to lunch during ramadan. if they didnt like that there was food around them, then they could just leave and go to the media center for their lunch periods, but a big deal was not made for them. i dont care if its only for a few days, but you simply cant change the workings of an entire body of employees for a, admitedly, minority(this of course depends on the geographic location and all that, im using the area in which i live, but to prove a point; there is a neighboring town in my state that has a very large population of followers of the muslim faith, and in that area where schools and businesses could very well be filled with a muslim majority, special consideration is given to those predominant holidays and such)

this is like the situation of schools not being able to say "happy christmas!" or "happy hanukka!" because if they were to acknowledge those holidays they would have to acknowledge EVERY holiday celibrated by every student in the school(which could get very rediculous very quickly). to me, this situation is like what happens when someone DOES put that thinking into effect; there is no reason to go to that extreme for a holiday, especially to the aggrivation of possibly 3/4 of the workplace/school population.

i hate to use this analogy; but would they let someone make an animal sacrifice during lunch, take away all of the cheeseburgers from the cafateria or (insert other strange religious rituals that are out there) based on an unsupported hunch that it could stop the product of a group of extremists' insanity?

on the other hand, maybe this is just my american thinking being too politically correct?

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Scotland and Italy surrender to Islam - 8/21/2007 6:11:57 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

in the UK it's called politeness. Not offering offence to others un-necessarily. Apparently passing up the opportunity to be rude is seen as bowing to fascism by some



Just so I'm clear here, Phil, you would be in agreement that the Islamic Communities, especially those in the US, might want to consider toning down the parties scheduled for September 11?



I don't see why the US should have a problem with people celebrating Bin Ladin's win. I mean, the US obeyed his demands, and withdrew the troops from his homeland, Saudi Arabia, so since they won, shouldn't they celebrate?

( Me, I wouldn't have given them the win, but what else should we have expected from that family of cowards, the Bushs? )



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Scotland and Italy surrender to Islam - 8/21/2007 7:02:39 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SuzanneKneeling


quote:

... it usually entails burning effigies of the Pope and of carmelite nuns...



Just thinking aloud... would that make the latter into "caramelized nuns"?


Oh... you are wicked! Oh I love it. More, more, more!

_____________________________



(in reply to SuzanneKneeling)
Profile   Post #: 40
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