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RE: Scotland and Italy surrender to Islam - 8/24/2007 8:54:02 AM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

      You are correct that the really big party comes at the end, Polite.  Three days worth of party, in fact, so the coincidence of timing could be worse.  The night before the first day of the fast is also celebrated.  A rough analogy to what you are saying would be that Thanksgiving is irrelevant to the American holiday season because presents aren't exchanged until Christmas (30 odd days later).


Rich im not making any analogy at all. As far as i am aware, there is no celebration of the start of Ramadan. Just a celebration at the end which is called Eid Al-Fitr.

Thompson is right about Chritmas and thanksgiving being seperate events. The 12 days of Christmas dont start until the 26th Dec.

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RE: Scotland and Italy surrender to Islam - 8/24/2007 1:02:25 PM   
FatDomDaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

1st off,any suggestion that Muslims world wide should refrain from "partying" before Ramadan,is ridiculous.
Calling it partying, is as insulting as calling Christmas, a party(which it`s not.)



The observance ramadan more closely resembles Lent.

You do know what "Christians" do on the Eve of Lent?

Shrove Tuesday anyone?

Pretty sure that's a "partying" night for Christians all over the world.

On the eve of ramadan the same thing happens.

Here is the difference.

This year on the eve of ramadan, all over the world of radical islam,  9/11/01 theme parties will be happening. 

And to say Arabs and other muslims don't "Party" on the eve before ramadan is beyond naive. 


< Message edited by FatDomDaddy -- 8/24/2007 1:04:57 PM >

(in reply to Owner59)
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RE: Scotland and Italy surrender to Islam - 8/26/2007 2:52:02 AM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

In an effort to ensure that no Muslim doctors ever again try to bomb Glasgow Airport, bureaucrats at Glasgow’s public hospitals have decreed that henceforth no staff may eat lunch at their desks or in their offices during the holy month of Ramadan, so that fasting Muslims shall not be offended by the sight or smell of their food. Vending machines will also disappear from the premises during that period.



You're linking two unrelated incidents: I'll take a wild stab in the dark that the reason is to further your political agenda, but I could be wrong on that count.

Here's some info:

British public sector institutions are underpinned by the core idea of equal opporuntity and respect for the interests of all groups within society. The idea is to respect muslim culture; whether or not you agree with this policy is another matter entirely, but the objective has nothing to do with appeasing terrorists as you claim in your post.

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RE: Scotland and Italy surrender to Islam - 8/26/2007 2:55:39 AM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Estring

The European continent once again bows down to Fascism.



Estring, with all due respect, a few words of advice for you: lift your head above the parapet of ill-informed conversation.

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RE: Scotland and Italy surrender to Islam - 8/26/2007 3:06:11 AM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: susie

Interesting that none of this has been reported in the UK.


Susie this is the only link i have found for a press site here.
I cant say i have seen it in the papers at all either.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article2258664.ece


Yep. It all smacks of appeasement.

Now I don't believe in offending anyone for the dake of it but if they aren't happy living in a western country they dhould fuck off back to a muslim one.


What's wrong with a spot of give and take? In my mind, it forms the basis of friendship and community, and most British Muslims were born here: it's as much their country as anyone else's. Moreover, since when did a policy centred around consideration, respect and cultural understanding equate to not being happy in a Western country?

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RE: Scotland and Italy surrender to Islam - 8/26/2007 3:16:13 AM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SuzanneKneeling

quote:

In Canada there was talk for awhile of changing their legal system in order to allow for Sharia law in cases involving muslims.


Well, they're a fair bit behind us then. We've imposed Shar'ia Law in the US in many quarters in the form of "Christian" (sic) fundamentalism. Women in South Dakota now cannot terminate their pregnancies even if Uncle Mervin raped them and it resulted in conception. Gays cannot marry in most states because Allah (called in American Shar'ia Law by the English name "God") supposedly does not like that. 2,000-year-old book says so (sort of). Schoolkids in Kansas have their science educations compromised because the Topekan mullahs have decreed they should be taught that the universe was fashioned in 7 days by some apparently petulant, immature and short-tempered being named God. Americans cannot gamble either due to Sharia Law.

Look in the mirror.


I'm in agreement with the general point: there's good and bad in all cultures. I'll add that we view a culture based on the propaganda that reinforces our own culture. This Western lifestyle based around consumerism, materialism and property, it's simply an idea: its not the one true answer to the arrangement of people. The supposed superiority of our way life is reinforced every day through advertisement and propaganda, and we assume that Western philosophy, or liberal democracy, is the only credible option; in fact, it's simply one idea of many.

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Profile   Post #: 106
RE: Scotland and Italy surrender to Islam - 8/26/2007 4:01:19 AM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: Estring

The European continent once again bows down to Fascism.



Estring, with all due respect, a few words of advice for you: lift your head above the parapet of ill-informed conversation.


A glance at how many Europeans died fighting fascism in WW2 would be a starter.

(in reply to NorthernGent)
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RE: Scotland and Italy surrender to Islam - 8/26/2007 5:22:28 AM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: Estring

The European continent once again bows down to Fascism.



Estring, with all due respect, a few words of advice for you: lift your head above the parapet of ill-informed conversation.


A glance at how many Europeans died fighting fascism in WW2 would be a starter.


True, and the OP relates to Britain; obviously, Estring is unaware that fascist organisations in Britain have never garnered much support. In the 1930s, they were hounded out whenever they tried to drum up support. In the North East, they were literally booted out of the place, in East London they met a similar fate. Fast forward to the 1970s and 1980s, and for every National Front member on one of their marches, they were met by somewhere along the lines of 20/30 Anti-Nazi league members. They have always been irrelevant in British society and politics, and have literally been booted around Britain. Maybe there's another Britain in the universe somewhere. When push comes to shove, most Britons are centre ground, but for those who do sway towards more extreme politics in this island, the far left has always been far, far more attractive than the far right. It's fair to say that those Britons who went to fight in the Spanish Civil War, sympathised with the left. I wouldn't say that the US government betrays fascist views because it's far more complicated than that, but anyone wanting to engage in wanton conversation could script an argument to that effect.

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Profile   Post #: 108
RE: Scotland and Italy surrender to Islam - 8/26/2007 8:35:35 AM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: susie

Interesting that none of this has been reported in the UK.


Susie this is the only link i have found for a press site here.
I cant say i have seen it in the papers at all either.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article2258664.ece


Yep. It all smacks of appeasement.

Now I don't believe in offending anyone for the dake of it but if they aren't happy living in a western country they dhould fuck off back to a muslim one.


What's wrong with a spot of give and take? In my mind, it forms the basis of friendship and community, and most British Muslims were born here: it's as much their country as anyone else's. Moreover, since when did a policy centred around consideration, respect and cultural understanding equate to not being happy in a Western country?


I've spent my life resisting Christianity, I'm not going to now appease Islam or any other superstition.

If people want to believe in fairies that is fine by me but when they insist I should respect them for it and modify my life accordingly, no thanks.

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RE: Scotland and Italy surrender to Islam - 8/26/2007 12:42:35 PM   
Sinergy


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General reply.

I believe that Ramadan is similar to the Jewish Sabbath.  It does not follow a temporal time (i.e. midnight) to start, but follows a lunar cycle.

The Jewish Sabbath (iirc) starts at sundown on Friday and goes all the way to sundown on Saturday.

Not sure exactly when Ramadan starts, but an ancient religion is unlikely to run their holiday based on Greenwich Mean Time.

Sinergy

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(in reply to thompsonx)
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RE: Scotland and Italy surrender to Islam - 8/26/2007 12:47:27 PM   
LATEXBABY64


Posts: 2107
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Status: offline 		ireland better never surrender to islam there will be some pissed off leperichons

(in reply to Sinergy)
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RE: Scotland and Italy surrender to Islam - 8/26/2007 1:30:34 PM   
FatDomDaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy


General reply.

I believe that Ramadan is similar to the Jewish Sabbath.  It does not follow a temporal time (i.e. midnight) to start, but follows a lunar cycle.



So does Lent.

Easter is the Sunday after the first full moon of the vernal equinox. Plus, Lent is a prolonged period of fasting and reflection.

(in reply to Sinergy)
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RE: Scotland and Italy surrender to Islam - 8/26/2007 7:18:35 PM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

If people want to believe in fairies that is fine by me but when they insist I should respect them for it and modify my life accordingly, no thanks.



'You enjoying your job in a Glasgow hospital?

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Profile   Post #: 113
RE: Scotland and Italy surrender to Islam - 8/27/2007 1:28:56 AM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

If people want to believe in fairies that is fine by me but when they insist I should respect them for it and modify my life accordingly, no thanks.



'You enjoying your job in a Glasgow hospital?


Over sensitive people are the real problem here (not necessarily muslims) and people who believe that living in a free society is a danger to their beliefs. If they really believed in their faith, they wouldn't care about what other people said or thought because they would have faith that they were right and leave it to their great creator to pass judgement.

As an atheist, I don't really care what other people make of me because I know no god is going to pass judgement on me. My only worry is that superstitious people who believe in fairies are overly sensitive about people like me who believe that people who believe in fairies are bonkers. If the same people said they believed in the devil and not god, they would be certified by now and put into a straitjacket for being bonkers, which they are.

< Message edited by meatcleaver -- 8/27/2007 1:30:02 AM >

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RE: Scotland and Italy surrender to Islam - 8/27/2007 2:04:16 AM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
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Status: offline 		I wouldn't say people are mad for believing in a god; rather, people search for hope and meaning beyond their own existence: some choose god, others choose politics etc. It could well be a social reflex, but it's definitely not madness.

Going back to the Islam/Glasgow issue, in the grand scheme of life, it's small details; and certainly not worthy of the sensationalism that is "Islam is taking over the world, Europe surrenders yet again". That kind of talk is far closer to insanity than believing in a god.

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I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to meatcleaver)
Profile   Post #: 115
RE: Scotland and Italy surrender to Islam - 8/27/2007 2:31:57 AM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

Going back to the Islam/Glasgow issue, in the grand scheme of life, it's small details; and certainly not worthy of the sensationalism that is "Islam is taking over the world, Europe surrenders yet again". That kind of talk is far closer to insanity than believing in a god.


You have my agreement on that but then, some people can't find reason in life without bogeymen. 

< Message edited by meatcleaver -- 8/27/2007 2:33:14 AM >

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There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.

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Profile   Post #: 116
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