quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

"One of the reasons the founders of our country gave for committing treason was "to promote the general welfare". This country was not founded so that the rich could exploit the not rich. Socialism is social responsibility...if one chooses to define socialism as fascism or equate the goals of a society to the subjugation of that society by the rich and powerful then I would submit that they are simply engaging in a form of intellectual masturbation.
thompson "

actually you might want to read the Declaration of Independnace, which sums up the reasons for the revolt against the crown...Promoting the general welfare is not part of it, that is from the constitution written 20 years after the fact.

One of the main reasons that people link socialism and facism is that the pre eminent facist of all time Hitler, called his facism ...National Socialism. NAZI is an acronym for National Socialism. Facism is a bizzare off shoot of Socialism.

That you think the definiton of Socialism is "social responsibility" speaks volumes...

quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

"One of the reasons the founders of our country gave for committing treason was "to promote the general welfare".  This country was not founded so that the rich could exploit the not rich.  Socialism is social responsibility...if one chooses to define socialism as fascism or equate the goals of a society to the subjugation of that society by the rich and powerful then I would submit that they are simply engaging in a form of intellectual masturbation.
thompson "

actually you might want to read the Declaration of Independnace, which sums up the reasons for the revolt against the crown...Promoting the general welfare is not part of it, that is from the constitution written 20 years after the fact.
Actually it if from the preamble to the constitution that was written about ten years after the Declaration of Independence not twenty.  The Declaration of Independence was written in 1776 and the constitution in 1787.

One of the main reasons that people link socialism and facism is that the pre eminent facist of all time Hitler, called his facism ...National Socialism.  NAZI is an acronym for National Socialism.  Facism is a bizzare off shoot of Socialism. 
How very interesting.  This runs contrary to the definitions found in the political science texts.  It would be most instructive if you might elucidate on this subject a bit more. 

That you think the definiton of Socialism is "social responsibility" speaks volumes...
Socialism, when it begins a sentence is capitalised...in the body of my text it is in lower case.  Please do not read into that more than is there.
This word has been discussed on this forum before.  We as humans form ourselves into societies for a purpose.  As a society we have socialized certain aspects of our society.  We often refer to these as social services like the fire department.  In most places in the U.S. the fire department is not privately owned but rather by the people (state) for the benefit of all...this is what I mean by social responsibility.
If it is your desire to pick fly shit out of pepper then please feel free to do so...that is not the intent of my post.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

We in the west have democracies, which by and large have a reasonable, but still not flawless, voting system. My point is that many Countires dont have that right, and wether they are looked upon as socialists or facists, for the average citizen, the result is the same.
I never said both were the same, nor did i have a knee jerk reaction. I simply pointed out an inescapable fact.

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

"No Child Left Behind" == Socialism.

quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

Thompson, I will do anything you like if you can find any Poltical Science book that defines the word "Nazi" as anything other than an acronym for "National Socialism".  That is what it is.  Hitler said he was a socialist.  We could argue that he was full of shit, and I agree.  However using your nonsense defintion he was absolutly a socialist.  Lots of fire departments, free schools and efficient public transport in Nazi Germany.  Hitler made the corparations and bussiness pay fair wages and do what the Government wanted.  I do believe they even had a national health service. 

Socialism is a form of political economy where Capital is controlled by the state.  Which sounds ok in theory untill you realise that each individuals mind and body is also capital and controlled by the state.  Welfare is not socialism, nor are public schools or fire departments, nor the No Child Left Behind act.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

"No Child Left Behind" == Socialism.

farglebargle:
Are you against public education or just bush & co. approach to it?
thompson

quote:

Lots of fire departments, free schools and efficient public transport in Nazi Germany.  Hitler made the corparations and bussiness pay fair wages and do what the Government wanted.  I do believe they even had a national health service. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: came4U

thompson, you are getting on my nerves with your nonsense. I should tell you this in email actually.
You know I always enjoy your correspondence.

really, you are an argumentative prick
That is not the only thing I do with my prick.

about anything and nothing, things that perhaps take you 3 hrs to look up??? Where you learn your politics, or any topic, who knows.
Being right all the time is a burden but one I can carry. 

I suggest you either look or study what you actually argue about.  Do you only read online newspapers?
No, I also read the funny papers and everything you write.

but, you can handle this criticism. pft, I know you can.

I will write you tomorrow about you buggin me to no end.
I will only bugger you in the end if you say please in a most convincing manner

lol

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Cuba`s elections had candidates all picked by the politburo.
Vietnam are officially a one party state.... Candidates were all from the communist party.
I agree about Chile.
Chavez seems honest and sincere to me.

Edited to add.
Luckydog nice post....Even in a capitalist society the best way to go is to have essential services run by the people for the people.
Health and educataion especially.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Cuba`s elections had candidates all picked by the politburo.
Vietnam are officially a one party state.... Candidates were all from the communist party.
I agree about Chile.
Chavez seems honest and sincere to me.

Edited to add.
Luckydog nice post....Even in a capitalist society the best way to go is to have essential services run by the people for the people.
Health and educataion especially.

Politesub:
I would submit that the U.S. is a one party system where the candidates are hand picked by the "Politburo" and submitted to us to choose from and if we choose wrong then the electoral college or the courts appoint whom they wanted to in the first place.
thompson

quote:


If people really used their vote and voted in a radical government that put the people first and the rich and their political puppets second, the troops would be out on the streets within 24 hours.

quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

One of the main reasons that people link socialism and facism is that the pre eminent facist of all time Hitler, called his facism ...National Socialism.  NAZI is an acronym for National Socialism.  Facism is a bizzare off shoot of Socialism. 

quote:



fascist
1921, from It. partito nazionale fascista, the anti-communist political movement organized 1919 under Benito Mussolini (1883-1945); from It. fascio "group, association," lit. "bundle." Fasci "groups of men organized for political purposes" had been a feature of Sicily since c.1895; the 20c. sense probably infl. by the Roman fasces (q.v.) which became the party symbol. Fascism, also 1921, was originally used in Eng. 1920 in its It. form, fascismo. Applied to similar groups in Germany from 1923.

"A form of political behavior marked by obsessive preoccupation with community decline, humiliation or victimhood and by compensatory cults of unity, energy and purity, in which a mass-based party of committed nationalist militants, working in uneasy but effective collaboration with traditional elites, abandons democratic liberties and pursues with redemptive violence and without ethical or legal restraints goals of internal cleansing and external expansion." [Robert O. Paxton, "The Anatomy of Fascism," 2004]