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RE: Mastery vs Surrender - 8/24/2007 5:19:53 PM   
slavegirljoy


Posts: 1207
Joined: 11/6/2006
From: North Carolina, USA
Status: offline 		Fast Reply Ultimately, there are no guarantees in relationships, that i know of, no matter what.  If someone decides they want to leave, for any number of reasons, they are going to leave.  It might be for another person or it might be because they have decided they want something different for their life.  Everyone grows and changes, over time, and sometimes people just grow in different directions.  Even if the Master tries to keep his slave away from all others and tries to keep her all to himself and, even if she is content with that for awhile, over time, she could become resentful and want more or, he could become bored with her and lose interest in her. Only time will tell, if two people (or more) will stay together or not.   Every day is a test of my commitment to my Master and of His commitment to me.  He appreciates my mind, as much as my body, and wants me to keep both alive and active and so, He encourages me in all sorts of pursuits that interest me.  He knows me, as well as i do, and He wants me to be my best and enjoy my life and feel secure about my place in this world and about my future, should something happen to Him.  He wants me to be able to carry on without Him.  Plus, He knows it is a false sense of security for Him to think that He can control whether i stay or i leave.  He and i have agreed that Wwe both want to live as Master and slave and, so, Wwe do.  Oour relationship is based on mutual desire and mutual benefit.  If that desire ends or the benefit is no longer there, for one or both of Uus, this relationship, as it is now, will most likely end. i have always been with Doms who believed in swinging and so, my having sex with others has never been an issue for me or for them.   Of course, there is no sneaking around behind each others back and Oour swinging is always done together, whether as observer only or full participant. As far as i'm concerned, there is no absolute ownership of another.  i am an owned slave because i choose to consider myself owned and that is how i live my life right now.  But, if, at some point, i decide i no longer want to be owned or, i no longer want to be owned by this Master, i will no longer be owned and i will be free to go my own way.  It's pretty much like when i was married.  It was because i wanted to be married.  Then, some years later, i decided that i didn't want to be married anymore and i got divorced. As i have said before, it's sort of like this for me (a twist on an old poem):
"If you own something, set it free.  If it doesn't return to you, you never really owned it, anyway."
The actual line from the poem, by Alison Willcocks is, "If you love something, set it free. If it comes back to you, it's yours. If it doesn't, it never was."   Just my perspective.  slave joy Owned property of Master David  "Commitment transforms a promise into a reality."

(in reply to adoracat)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Mastery vs Surrender - 8/24/2007 5:19:59 PM   
MadRabbit


Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

I think that's completely reasonable and good.  But would you believe that a slave should put their own sense of self on the back burner for their master or the sake of being owned?


I would say thats a complicated hypothetical question with a lot of specifics and answers.

I wont expect someone to be in a relationship that they werent happy with.

But I dont see what the issue is if their own "self" is to be a slave, just like my "self" is to be a Master.

To be what one wants, there is things that one needs to do.

If the things they need to do to be my slave are too much for them, then they shouldnt be with me..

I've noticed in the past that when we get into the concept of "surrender", your opinion seems to be that is a violation of someone's sense of self.

I would say that it can be for a lot of people, but I dont think its the case if the act of "surrendering" provides fulfill for their own sense of self and core purpose of being a slave.






< Message edited by MadRabbit -- 8/24/2007 5:38:00 PM >

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(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Mastery vs Surrender - 8/24/2007 5:35:24 PM   
TemptingNviceSub


Posts: 3054
Joined: 10/1/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

One of my favorite quotes in college was "“A man has made at least a start on discovering the meaning of human life when he plants shade trees under which he knows full well he will never sit.”  Elton Trueblood
I wonder how many dominants and masters really understand and experience the concept of doing what’s best/wanted overall vs doing what they want in the moment?

It seems we expect that nearly constantly from slaves, but rather expect masters to be selfish and callous.  I feel this does a disservice to everyone.

I made the realization last night that my ex master probably knew right from the start of pushing me to date others and explore myself as a top that he’d eventually “lose me.”  I know this because he actually told me a few times that it’s what I would become.

He gave up the willing slave because he saw who I was to become.  He could have stopped me, I certainly wasn’t pushing for it or having some aching need at the time.  He could have kept me all for himself. 

Is this why so many masters refuse to allow their slaves to date or play or fuck others?  The fear that the slave might grow and that the master would have to choose between doing what is right and best for the fulfillment of everyone vs keeping the slave they want?

Not that every master would lose their slave in the way that mine did- it certainly wasn’t the only reason our relationship ended.  But yes, I do think he knew it would happen, and I think he accepted his shadetree growing into something he would not be able to sit under a long time before I even figured out what was going on.

Choosing between what you want and enjoy and what you know is best for everyone.  For me it came in the form of love- I find it impossible to have love without encouraging the other person to be who they are IN FULL.  For it to come in the form of dominance- that’s pretty freakin awesome and I’m really thankful now to have had him as a guide to show me that path.

Maybe I am viewing this a bit simplistically, and let me know if I am..however..Do you think that ,since I am sure you were rather young at the time..that he knew that of course as you grew and understood, that eventually you would leave the nest so to speak..but I wonder if he would of done so if you his submissive/slave were his age..or even if say you two got together when you were in your 40's?..then do you think he would of felt that he could no longer dwell under your shade for long?.....Tempting 

_____________________________

I have greatly enjoyed the second blooming...suddenly you find at the age of 50, that a whole new life has opened before you.........Agatha Christie.

You must make tracks into the unknown~~Thoreau

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Mastery vs Surrender - 8/24/2007 5:53:25 PM   
MisPandora


Posts: 2911
Joined: 4/7/2004
From: Philadelphia, PA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross
I made the realization last night that my ex master probably knew right from the start of pushing me to date others and explore myself as a top that he’d eventually “lose me.”  I know this because he actually told me a few times that it’s what I would become.

He gave up the willing slave because he saw who I was to become.  He could have stopped me, I certainly wasn’t pushing for it or having some aching need at the time.  He could have kept me all for himself. 

Is this why so many masters refuse to allow their slaves to date or play or fuck others?  The fear that the slave might grow and that the master would have to choose between doing what is right and best for the fulfillment of everyone vs keeping the slave they want?

Not that every master would lose their slave in the way that mine did- it certainly wasn’t the only reason our relationship ended.  But yes, I do think he knew it would happen, and I think he accepted his shadetree growing into something he would not be able to sit under a long time before I even figured out what was going on.

Choosing between what you want and enjoy and what you know is best for everyone.  For me it came in the form of love- I find it impossible to have love without encouraging the other person to be who they are IN FULL.  For it to come in the form of dominance- that’s pretty freakin awesome and I’m really thankful now to have had him as a guide to show me that path.


My mentor did very much of the same thing.  He recognized the diamond in the rough, so to speak, and accepted that my destiny was perhaps something other than what he'd intended.  He encouraged me to learn and grow, and in that, I discovered my love of being a responsible, loving dominant sadist.  He was the second person I called when I won my international leather title (the first being my mother) and I thanked him profusely.   I surely wouldn't be where I am today if it weren't for him giving me the opportunity to shine on my own, rather than being under the shade of his tree.  Due to life and family commitments, he no longer practices within the community, but says that he lives vicariously through me and does his best to check in and see what I'm up to.  I hope to be a tenth of what he's been to me for someone one day.

_____________________________

Pandora
Ms World Leather 2004
Ms Philadelphia Leather 2004

"Simply put, if you want a real femdom to love you, give her reasons to love you." Gloria Brame

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
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RE: Mastery vs Surrender - 8/24/2007 6:01:05 PM   
MisPandora


Posts: 2911
Joined: 4/7/2004
From: Philadelphia, PA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

Many years ago (nearly 27 now) I was happily, blissfully, head over heels, madly in love with my first Dominant. He was much older than myself and I absolutely idolized him. We were together for a few exciting and fun filled years full of new experiences for me. Then came a day when he put the brakes on the whole thing and sent me on my way. Needless to say I was hurt, confused and devastated. I felt as though he was abandoning me. He tried to explain to me why our paths must go seperate ways and that I had a life to live and things to learn that would be better learned with someone closer to my own age. I didn't have the maturity at that time in my life to understand and had to deal with a rollercoaster of emotion (another experience that, as it turned out, I really needed to experience).

We have remained friends over the many years and I have never forgotten the many experiences, the great times, the depth of emotion and the lessons I learned from my experiences with him. He played a very large part in who I am today and I am forever thankful that my first experience in this lifestyle was with someone who was such a great man and Dominant.

Last year, his wife of nearly 25 years passed away. I went to visit with him for a couple of weeks. He surprised me by beginning a conversation telling me how unbelievably proud he was of me and that the woman I have become has verified to him that he made the right decision all of those years ago. He also confided in me that making that decision was one of the toughest he had ever had to make and doing so ripped his heart out. He thought beyond himself and did what he felt was ultimately the right thing to do....and I thank him for that.

Erin,

I experienced much of the same feelings and emotions in my own situation.  In our instance, we mutually decided that we were walking different paths that had simply crossed.  He was meant to give me guidance and render wisdom and knowledge.  I was meant to consume it.  He taught me that "nothing lasts forever, good or bad" and "all things happen for a reason"; that dose of reality was a bitter pill to swallow when I felt the rug being torn from beneath me.  But, looking back at our amazing friendship that is going on 13 years, I am so thankful that things happened as they did.  I had the privilege of celebrating a marriage and the birth of his son, a rather imporant landmark in his life.  Being the character that he is, I'll never see the fragile side of what strife his decision caused him early on, but he's told me over and over that he is forever proud of me and knows that people are alive as result of what I've done as a leatherwoman. 

_____________________________

Pandora
Ms World Leather 2004
Ms Philadelphia Leather 2004

"Simply put, if you want a real femdom to love you, give her reasons to love you." Gloria Brame

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Mastery vs Surrender - 8/24/2007 6:03:50 PM   
Cyntilating


Posts: 581
Joined: 6/19/2007
Status: offline 		LA
wonderful topic...
and thank you for sharing your very personal and heartfelt revelation here ...
the quote is great!...and the relationship I have had the privilege of being in for the last 10 years, reflects this philosophy as well..
 
Amongst many examples, I am remembering at the beginning of our relationship > He told me that his role was not to tell me how strong I am, how insightful I am, creative, beautiful, smart, secure, passionate, capable, etc >>> His role (well one of them)  was to show me...>>     and he did that by
  creating a relationship and dynamics in that relationship that would allow me to see all that about myself for myself and/or grow and learn. 
 
I feel it speaks to the character of the person that will encourage personal growth and enlightenment in their S.O.
...and
it also speaks volumes about those that do not, for their own personal gain ( or sense of security).....
 
I think some of the responders focused more on LA's  personal example of >  "having other relationships and fucking others "  and missed the core of the revelation about the selflessness of her prior Master, and his willingness to see past his own desires and also see that she needed to find answers for herself, that HE could not give her..
 
giving ones SO the freedom and support to explore themselves and their boundaries >> does not have to equate to "fucking others" ....<< if thats not what your personal exploration is about...okies : )   and "finding that growth and experience doesnt always mean  >with others..or leaving. 
In many relationships the growth and new experiences they can and want to both share in....
What I read in her words> was more about needing to grow and experience things that HE was not or could not help her do..
 
Leadinghand said:
 "But over time bringing out the best in your submissive will only bring out the best in yourself. My responsibility for her growth and strength is one of the most rewarding parts of our relationship.

 ...so very insightful and inspiring.. smiles..

Three years into our relationship, I began to have Ds related desires towards a woman who I was in an intimate relationship with ( was prior to my relationship with Master ) ....He encouraged me to explore it as fully as she and I wanted to..
He COULD have insisted on being a part of it....he COULD have said no> feeling insecure about possibly losing my submission or having that other relationship alter the way I served him..  He did neither......
He gave me the freedom to explore something that HE could see was a strength inside me that would make me actually stronger....stronger for both of us...
and it did..
If anything, it deepened my understanding of my own submission..and what was at the core of it....
 
 " a caged bird, even in a guilded cage, rarely sings.."
 
 


 
 
 
 
 
 






_____________________________

Cyndi

.."There are two ways of spreading light: to be the candle or the mirror that reflects it. " Edith Wharton

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
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RE: Mastery vs Surrender - 8/24/2007 7:07:02 PM   
NefertariReborn


Posts: 381
Status: offline 		I'm going to comment and this comment may be a bit off tangent, but it's My reaction to what's being said.  If I came along a beautiful or not so beautiful fucktoy, one that I realized I didn't want on a long term basis, someone with whom I could find within Myself no desire to mould into what would be "perfect" for Me, but who wanted to submit to Me, yes I'd whore that person out.  They could fuck anything that moved.  I don't see that as "growth,"  just "experiencing" a lot of cunt or cock. 

BUT if I met one I connected with on a heart level, beyond the physical, whore them out?  Hell no.  Why would fucking anything that moved benefit Me or him.  Selfish?  Hell yes! I'm sure the slave knew that going in primarily because I don't want the village whore as Mine and I'd have made that abundantly clear.  Now if that gets some Domme off, more power to Her.  But it's a squick factor for Me.  I don't like people driving My car, changing My radio station, using My coffee mug.  I sure as heck won't let anyone touch My slave, who will in turn end up touching Me.  Bring on the disinfectant!

Again that's just My take on it.  I'm selfish, possessive and I make no apologies for it.  I don't hide it, so anyone with Me won't be dying inside because they're not "growing."

And I wish someone would tell My pet birds that caged birds don't sing often.  I'd no longer have to cover their cage to get them to pipe down.  It's a nice catch phrase but it's BS.

< Message edited by NefertariReborn -- 8/24/2007 7:13:05 PM >

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RE: Mastery vs Surrender - 8/24/2007 7:16:36 PM   
passionflower


Posts: 6
Joined: 5/13/2004
Status: offline 		people are deifferent , relationships can be close or open. I love to belong and be the best for partner.

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Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Mastery vs Surrender - 8/24/2007 7:24:09 PM   
Cyntilating


Posts: 581
Joined: 6/19/2007
Status: offline 		NefertariReborn..
 
I can appreciate your post and thoughts...
smiles.
 
and you write [tell My pet birds that caged birds don't sing often.  I'd no longer have to cover their cage to get them to pipe down]
yes, the key word there is "birds" plural...
birds will sing when other birds are around....or people encourage them to sing with bird noises..whistles..etc..
.... a bird alone..in a cage...restricted from outside influences> won't make a sound...
which is why I used the analogy..
 
 

_____________________________

Cyndi

.."There are two ways of spreading light: to be the candle or the mirror that reflects it. " Edith Wharton

(in reply to NefertariReborn)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Mastery vs Surrender - 8/24/2007 7:28:35 PM   
NefertariReborn


Posts: 381
Status: offline 		That's why a slave has a Dominant ...also he/she isn't living in a vacuum.  He/she isn't isolated from real life.  Very few Dominants I believe can afford to keep their slaves in complete isolation. 

< Message edited by NefertariReborn -- 8/24/2007 7:31:58 PM >

(in reply to Cyntilating)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Mastery vs Surrender - 8/24/2007 7:35:40 PM   
wwsmith


Posts: 14
Joined: 8/5/2007
Status: offline
quote:

that the woman I have become has verified to him that he made the right decision all of those years ago.


What kind of woman would you have become if he had kept you?

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The Sun now rose upon the right :
Out of the sea came he,
Still hid in mist, and on the left
Went down into the sea.


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Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Mastery vs Surrender - 8/24/2007 8:04:07 PM   
Cyntilating


Posts: 581
Joined: 6/19/2007
Status: offline 		agreed...yes
 
 my analogy of  "isolation"   was floating in my head because of a prior thread and conversation I was having today about controlling/isolating/abuse?  ...
 
but..THAT is not what THIS thread was about..and so my analogy was misplaced ..
 
but its not bullsh** 
btw  thanks for responding.. nice to have imput on my output...as it were....

_____________________________

Cyndi

.."There are two ways of spreading light: to be the candle or the mirror that reflects it. " Edith Wharton

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RE: Mastery vs Surrender - 8/24/2007 8:32:38 PM   
charlotte12


Posts: 471
Joined: 5/9/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

I find it impossible to have love without encouraging the other person to be who they are IN FULL. 


This is what i took as the essence of this post. I don't even really see this as a strictly D/s issue. I don't think that i would be happy being with someone who i felt had not come fully into themselves. I would want to encourage them to do everything they needed to do to make themselves the best person they could be. If i loved them i would hope that this would not push us apart but who am i to stop someone from discovering something important about themselves because i want to hold onto someone they once were. I would hope my partner would feel the same way about me.

For me this growth might not be fucking others but it doesn't seem to me that that was the point (correct me if i'm wrong).  It might simply be being encouraged to stand up for myself when i'm getting carried away helping other people with their problems. I don't think the goal is to push your partner away from you but to encourage them to grow in whatever way they need to.

~charlotte




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RE: Mastery vs Surrender - 8/24/2007 9:15:32 PM   
breatheasone


Posts: 4004
Joined: 7/14/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit
First off, I know what I want out of a relationship. I want to Own someone. I want my ideal vision of a slave. I want power exhange. I want to control. I want to indulge in my slave. This is what I personally want.

If wanting these things out of my own individual relationship makes me selfish, then so be it...I am selfish.

I would say that yes, it makes you selfish, and yes, I completely support that and you seeking and finding it in total bliss.  Selfishness is not only good, but necessary IMO to have personal fulfillment.

quote:

But just because I am willing to accept circumstance, reality, and the fact that people arent necessarily meant to be in the kind of relationship that I want doesnt mean that I dont have my own plans and desires and going to throw them on the backburner for them.

I think that's completely reasonable and good.  But would you believe that a slave should put their own sense of self on the back burner for their master or the sake of being owned?

No...i try not to should on people...LOL...it doesnt fair very well anyway...I could say this though...some slaves will put their "own sense of self" on the back burners for their masters....and some won't. I dont think should is the issue...


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RE: Mastery vs Surrender - 8/24/2007 9:46:49 PM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

One of my favorite quotes in college was "“A man has made at least a start on discovering the meaning of human life when he plants shade trees under which he knows full well he will never sit.”  Elton Trueblood
I wonder how many dominants and masters really understand and experience the concept of doing what’s best/wanted overall vs doing what they want in the moment?


It is indeed a nice quote.. but I am not so sure if it is the meaning of human life... or it reflects a person that values the growth of community and society.   That this person is put one cog in the wheel of that growth.  When such an individual brings it closer to home, we see a person that seeks to appreciate the needs and desires of those closest to themselves and chooses to be a positive force in their fulfillment.  It is not just Dominants and Masters ... but all of us in humanity that could benefit in understanding the concept of giving to the world around us and not take what has to offer.  I have said it before, for me the most content relationships are when individuals are seek to give into it and natural receive from it.  Instead of seeking to "take" what it has to offer. 

quote:


It seems we expect that nearly constantly from slaves, but rather expect masters to be selfish and callous.  I feel this does a disservice to everyone.


I very much agree with this statement.  Generosity, Compassion, Citizenship, Humility Prudence and many other strengths of character looks good on anyone.  Selfishness is not something to be idealized.

quote:


I made the realization last night that my ex master probably knew right from the start of pushing me to date others and explore myself as a top that he’d eventually “lose me.”  I know this because he actually told me a few times that it’s what I would become.


His foresight was likely a benefit for him as it seldom does a person much good to push water up hill.

quote:


He gave up the willing slave because he saw who I was to become.  He could have stopped me, I certainly wasn’t pushing for it or having some aching need at the time.  He could have kept me all for himself. 


I am not so sure he could of stopped you.. might of put back the time line a bit... and maybe made things more painful for both of you as a result.  He might not of taken any easier path... but he did take the right path for both of you.  For you... it was about opening a door that was right for you to walk through.  For him, it was about planting a tree and being true to inner principle of himself and not surrender to his own selfish impulses.  He is likely happier because of it.  You both are I would suspect.

quote:


Is this why so many masters refuse to allow their slaves to date or play or fuck others?  The fear that the slave might grow and that the master would have to choose between doing what is right and best for the fulfillment of everyone vs keeping the slave they want?


There is no question that some are fearful of their partner outgrowing themselves.  However, I suspect many are not even aware of this fearful motivation that affects their choices.  There is of course alot of other reasons why some make the decision you suggest and nothing about fearing to lose what they have... some just don't share what is theirs.

quote:


Not that every master would lose their slave in the way that mine did- it certainly wasn’t the only reason our relationship ended.  But yes, I do think he knew it would happen, and I think he accepted his shadetree growing into something he would not be able to sit under a long time before I even figured out what was going on.


Not every master, but it does seem a very significant number of relationships don't stand the test of time.

quote:


Choosing between what you want and enjoy and what you know is best for everyone.  For me it came in the form of love- I find it impossible to have love without encouraging the other person to be who they are IN FULL.  For it to come in the form of dominance- that’s pretty freakin awesome and I’m really thankful now to have had him as a guide to show me that path.


thanks for sharing your thoughts.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Mastery vs Surrender - 8/25/2007 10:42:11 PM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline 		What a fascinating thread!  Some interesting lines of discussion.  The one that struck me most was the bit about ownership and needs and who should look after who.

A few years ago I would have agreed with many here, that if I own someone, they are mine to use as I see fit.  This is going to sound pompous but tough...with more growth I think that statement is still true but with one single but vastly important caveat.  They must truly be the right one to whom me using as I see fit ENHANCES her life on a very core level. Many women desire to wear my collar, to serve me, but I know that for me that would be wrong.  I don't love easily but when I do it is deep and profound and knowing they wouldn't receive that love and that at some point someone would (and now is) receive that love, it is best for me not to own anyone who would desire that with me.  Now, if I found someone who I KNEW wasn't interested in loving me, wouldn't fall for me but had some other reason to serve me, I might take them on because I know doing as I see fit as selfishly as I want would enhance her life.  I think that ability to SEE that for someone even if they can't requires a responsible dominant to act on that understanding.

The reality is that while we play with the semantics of owning someone it isn't like owning a car or an animal.  Setting aside the nature of that ownership, we have responsibility to another human being to act, well, responsible.  Just because someone is willing to offer that ownership, just because you want that ownership, does not mean you should accept it, and if you do, you must continue to act responsibly and if that means helping them grow wings, learn to use them, and then let them free, you better do exactly that.

(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Mastery vs Surrender - 8/25/2007 11:55:01 PM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael
The reality is that while we play with the semantics of owning someone it isn't like owning a car or an animal.  Setting aside the nature of that ownership, we have responsibility to another human being to act, well, responsible.  Just because someone is willing to offer that ownership, just because you want that ownership, does not mean you should accept it, and if you do, you must continue to act responsibly and if that means helping them grow wings, learn to use them, and then let them free, you better do exactly that.


It is an interesting thread....Here is the problem...It's the wing thing.  I like to get involved with women that have the ability to fly prior to our meeting.  They have flexed their wings and have soared the skies.

I enjoy the company of a woman that has at least a fairly solid idea of what she wants.  Not something that right from the start I can clearly see the obvious pitfalls that would more than likely cause the demise of the relationship in the future.  I'm not a great teacher. I'm not a savior.  I have learned some great lessons in this life and I'm more than happy to impart what wisdom I have gleaned.  I can't save anyone who is not willing to save themselves.

I have read the other posts where some have thumped their chests  and extol their tremendous abilities to heal all feminine ailments from self esteem issues to premature balding.....I can help....But only to a point....I have to be led to believe that the relationship is a universally strengthening one....It improves us both, we are a better as a couple than we are as individuals.

People do grow, and change and there are never any guarantees for tomorrow. Just because a relationship does not go long term does not mean it should be considered a to be a waste of time ....Some relationships are destined to not last....You see them out here all of the time....Anyone looking in would say..."They aren't going to make it." ....So  we give tremendous kudos to the Dom for "consensually" bowing out of a relationship that was going to fail regardless of his actions.


_____________________________



(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Mastery vs Surrender - 8/26/2007 12:47:08 AM   
slavegirljoy


Posts: 1207
Joined: 11/6/2006
From: North Carolina, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy
I have to be led to believe that the relationship is a universally strengthening one....It improves us both, we are a better as a couple than we are as individuals.

This is how i see it, too.  As long as my Master and i are both receiving benefit from being together as Master and slave, then it's a positive experience and the relationship will continue to thrive.  But, if either one or both should stop benefiting from it, then a major re-evaluation needs to take place and that might mean that it's time to part ways.  When it stops being a positive experience for either Him or i, then, in order that it doesn't become a negative experience, it should undergo a change and that change could mean that it needs to end.
 
quote:

Just because a relationship does not go long term does not mean it should be considered a to be a waste of time ....
i think this is a very healthy way to look at it.  Every relationship i have ever been in resulted in something positive for me.  It's sad when things don't work out exactly as i had hoped for but, there is still always something good that i take away from the experience (and i don't mean half of his bank account.)  There isn't a man, i have ever been involved with, that i wouldn't be happy to see again and be eager to say, "It was good while it lasted."
 
slave joy
Owned property of Master David
 
"Commitment transforms a promise into a reality."

(in reply to domiguy)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Mastery vs Surrender - 8/26/2007 8:28:20 AM   
SlaveOwnerDave


Posts: 113
Joined: 8/22/2007
From: Petaluma, CA
Status: offline 		From UR2Badored: (A quote she relayed)
quote:

"As a Dom in my relationship, my priorities are:
1. [Bottom, slave, submissve] her needs
2. [Top, Master, Dominant] My needs
3. [Top, Master, Dominant] My desires
4. [Bottom, slave, submissve] her desires
[In a TPE I believe it is my duty (and honour) to take care of her legitimate needs. In exchange for taking care of her needs she surrenders her desires to me.]"

I have to say, as a Master, that a slave's needs are not the first of a number of line items. The slave's needs--indeed the needs of all One's slaves if more than one--must be met for the relationship(s) even to exist.

Without surrender, a slave is not much use. And without its needs being met, a slave cannot surrender. Period.

As for doing what is best for the slave... One MUST do so. That is the most important need a Master must fulfill, as painful as it may be.

A Master's slaves look to Him for Guidance as well as orders. If Master fails to meet this need then His Guidance is faulty--and, thereby, so is the Master.

Sometime back I used the automobile analogy in a discussion group. The topic was something about lending slaves out or some such. When I stated that My slave would be too valuable to just lend out to someone, I got curious looks.

Continuing on, I said,"Most people seem to think valuable means an automobile or a television receiver, or some other artifact. From My engineering point of view, those things are just machines--they are easily replaceable. A slave is NOT replaceable. Therefore, a slave is more valuable than an automobile. So if I will not lend out My automobile then why the hell would I lend out My slave??"

Ooooooh, the dirty looks! Here in the Bay Area, most slaves have well-paying jobs. To these Masters and Mistresses, then, the slave costs them zero dollars, but an automobile costs thousands!

But: Rarity is why gems are prized. So a slave...

Master Dave

(in reply to UR2Badored)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Mastery vs Surrender - 8/26/2007 9:10:30 AM   
Celeste43


Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
Status: offline 		A couple of reasons why I don't play with, date or fuck others.

Firstly is that it would be bad for me. I need a committed relationship if I'm to trust. Being lent out would make me feel devalued, unimportant, unloved. I've had enough therapy on these issues to know that deliberately sending back into bad head space is the least thing that would be good for me. I know what I need and that isn't it.

Secondly, about the fucking others part, neither of us have any std's nor do we want any. Lots of stuff is not preventable by condom usage.

Thirdly, he doesn't share well with others any more than I do. Both of us interpret this as not loving each other.

As far as growing and changing, I see no reason for someone to push me to change because they think they see signs of things I'll get interested in later on. If it's meant to be, then it will happen in time. I really prefer living in the moment and enjoying now.

(in reply to ownedgirlie)
Profile   Post #: 60
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