quote:

ORIGINAL: bandit25

A couple of things...

angelicsubbie:  My advice would be to let it go.  Doms aren't perfect...no one is.  If he said he may have overreacted, he recognizes it and prolly will be more careful to avoid it happening again.  If you think he doesn't realize just how upset you are/were, tell him.  Just tell him.  Talk to the man.  He most likely doesn't know.

stephann:  I really enjoy reading your posts and, most of the time, they have some very good advice/common sense.  However, in these posts you've likened a sub (perhaps,, your sub) to a child twice.  Is that how you think of her?  Within the confines of punishment that is.  I know many doms feel that way and I don't understand that.  Putting aside bratty subs or those who simply don't care, if your sub does something "wrong", does she become childlike in your eyes? 

quote:

ORIGINAL: sublimelysensual


 
    I picked this quote out of the OP because it resonates with me. It seems like a lot of Doms nowadays are on the "punishment" bandwagon, and what I don't understand about that is this. 99% of the time, if I've done something wrong, I'm well aware of it, and always upfront about it, at times confessing things the Dom in question didn't have a clue about to begin with. I can also pretty much guarantee that any punishment He could come up with would be a veeeeery distant second place to what's going on in my head. I abhor making mistakes. I'm human, I know I make them, everyone does, but I'm truly my own harshest critic. A stern reminder, or look very quickly tells me not to do so again. As far as more major errors go, I fully expect to be punished appropriately, and won't forgive myself until that happens. But for the small stuff? Sometimes it just seems like overkill. Now with a child, sometimes you need to use overkill, they may not know what they did wrong, or the consequences of doing whatever they did. As an adult, I do know, and sticking me on my knees on rice for fifteen minutes because I forgot to pick up milk (or whatever the case may be), just seems like a waste of time and energy on both parts.
 
   I can also attest to the fact that if after being punished I'm ignored, or simply told, "you were punished because of this", and then left to my own devices, it feels as though I'm still being punished. It takes it from, "you're a good slave who made a mistake", to "you're a bad slave and not worth my time right now" in sixty seconds flat. So then not only do I have the transgression on a constant loop in my head, the whole self-doubt thing kicks in as well. That isn't to say I expect the Dom to coddle and cuddle me for an hour after the event, but at least a few minutes would be nice. So I guess what I would add is to remember you're punishing for a bad action, and after you've done so the good person is still inside and may need some attention. Just my two cents, as always..
 
-a

quote:

ORIGINAL: bandit25

A couple of things...

angelicsubbie:  My advice would be to let it go.  Doms aren't perfect...no one is.  If he said he may have overreacted, he recognizes it and prolly will be more careful to avoid it happening again.  If you think he doesn't realize just how upset you are/were, tell him.  Just tell him.  Talk to the man.  He most likely doesn't know.

stephann:  I really enjoy reading your posts and, most of the time, they have some very good advice/common sense.  However, in these posts you've likened a sub (perhaps,, your sub) to a child twice.  Is that how you think of her?  Within the confines of punishment that is.  I know many doms feel that way and I don't understand that.  Putting aside bratty subs or those who simply don't care, if your sub does something "wrong", does she become childlike in your eyes? 

quote:

ORIGINAL: sublimelysensual

Sometimes it just seems like overkill. Now with a child, sometimes you need to use overkill, they may not know what they did wrong, or the consequences of doing whatever they did. As an adult, I do know, and sticking me on my knees on rice for fifteen minutes because I forgot to pick up milk (or whatever the case may be), just seems like a waste of time and energy on both parts.
 
   I can also attest to the fact that if after being punished I'm ignored, or simply told, "you were punished because of this", and then left to my own devices, it feels as though I'm still being punished. It takes it from, "you're a good slave who made a mistake", to "you're a bad slave and not worth my time right now" in sixty seconds flat. So then not only do I have the transgression on a constant loop in my head, the whole self-doubt thing kicks in as well. That isn't to say I expect the Dom to coddle and cuddle me for an hour after the event, but at least a few minutes would be nice. So I guess what I would add is to remember you're punishing for a bad action, and after you've done so the good person is still inside and may need some attention. Just my two cents, as always..
 
-a

quote:

  She probably won't learn much if you spank her with a feather duster. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: angelicsubbie

Great post...I find myself personally struggling to deal with punishment lately, seeing as how i got my first real punishment <well; i don't know if i can say that, but first real punishment from my boyfriend> about 2 weeks ago, and am still upset and whatnot...but i'm also very much a perfectionist.

I don't think he realized at themoment just how upset i really was getting...and he stayed to comforrt me and whatnot, then thought things were all better, but mentally they weren't, and still aren't totally on par <to make this even better im going to my first spanking party with him tomorrow>

I think for me part of it is that I don't feel the punishment was warranted...yes, perhaps I was out of line, but he said himself that he thinks he overreacted some, and any being out of line was simply out of concern for him....

Great post; unfortunatly it hasn't helped me at all to mentally cope with the concept of punishment; though yet again I think the issue is that the punishment didn't meet the crime, and I'm worried about that happening again....

So yeah; I think its also important to understand your sub's mental state, know just how upset she is, etc.

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ORIGINAL: taintedgypsy

Can what form punishment will take durring the relationship be decided like really early on to help prevent a sub's insecurities?

Is it acceptable for a sub to say "this is something that holds speacial meaning for me and can not be used as punishment it causes to much mental anguish and confusion", sought of like a hard limit I suppose?

If issues with punishment have damaged trust in a previous relationship ... how do you prevent them from being carried into the next one?

Just some thoughts, excuse me if they seem a little mixed, I am actually quite suprised at how much even thinking about this disturbs me.

quote:

ORIGINAL: sublimelysensual

That's part of the reason I said sometimes. I have a 6 yr old UM, if she starts to walk out into the road, yes I punish her somewhat harshly, (overkill) because the consequences if she did walk into the road (getting hit by a car) are such that I want her to remember what happened the last time she thought about doing so the next time she comes to a street. Hence what I said about overkill. I agree that it isn't always necessary. And when I talk of overkill with UMs, I mean harsher words than usual or more time in time-out.
 
anyway, just clarifying..
-a

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ORIGINAL: daddysliloneds
punishment to me, is not a necessary element to making a 'good relationship' better or even to make a relationship work at all.

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The concept of punishment is necessary in a TPE dynamic

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Punishment is part of what makes that dynamic work by setting up the basic exchange of power.

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ORIGINAL: GhitaAmati

my non usual caveat: I have no idea if anything I am about to say will make sense. I havent slept in a while, nor have I had coffee or even a glass of ice water in which to soak my head. I would like to make a comment while its in my mind and maybe tomorrow I will come back and make sense of it.


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Punishment: While I understand everyone has different ideas about what it is and the reasons behind it, Ive often wondered, if you really have to punish so often that you can write an essay on it....is the realtionship really working out all that well? Ok, so sure, my Sir will occasionally correct me, or ask me to do something a different way, but to do something to actually need punishment? Why would I? If I really did screw something up, I can normally dish the punishment out on myself a whole lot better than Sir ever could or would....

Funny, the things we do, when we have insomnia.

Actually, I don't really punish that often. I don't enjoy it, as I mentioned, and I don't make it a focal point of my relationships.  Many people equate Discipline with Punishment, and I actually didn't want to hijack (or see made into more of a feeding frenzy) of the AKAbarbarian thread on resentment.  So, here was what I came up with.

I'm totally cool with folks who don't use 'formal' punishment.  Please read my disclaimer at the beginning of this thread, and remember this was just typing practice   And, more seriously, some people dig punishment in their relationships.  This was just intended as an overall view of how I can see it work.  We certainly have resident experts here who can and do handle the topic with greater skill and ability than I.

Stephan