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Domspeak: The subs on collarme?? - 7/8/2005 10:44:10 AM

Handspankingdom

Posts: 20
Joined: 7/6/2005
Status: offline

Good afternoon all,

I have been a member of collarme.com for approximately two weeks. My experience in the BDSM (primarily D's) world has encompassed 15 years of both on the spiritual and physical level of being a dominant. I wanted to add my thoughts and observations here as a member.

Firstly, I view a requirement of a healthy (mutually rewarding) D's relationships/friendships to be a time investment on both ends, necessitating the exchange of ideas, limits/expectations, and intent (whether 24/7 or otherwise). To this extent, I embrace patience and a period of getting to know one another (both on the D's level and vanilla interests) to share ideas/thoughts and possibly finding someone to click with all of this.

I have sent notes to a few potential submissive females, however I have been greatly disappointed with their responses (one liners seeking pictures) and ability to communicate/relay their thougts as they pertain to D's. Indeed, a few subs don't really seem to grasp the concept of submitting at all, by starting with limits and then listing their likes and dislikes/do's and don'ts. While it is helpful to share such expectations, etc., if one makes a sincere effort (time investment) to get to know someone with respect to their pursuit in a D's relationship, wouldn't the trust level achieved make the sub comfortable with her dom? Isn't this what submitting is all about? Or are many here just seeking wish fulfillment?

And Wouldn't the dom -- acting responsibly, also take into consideration his/her sub's limits- take them to the edge (pushing limits a bit), without forcing unwanted activities on his/her sub? Isn't the relinquishment of control (of course there are different levels of intent) is what this is all about?

Pardon my noticing, but it seems many subs here are seeking wish fulfillment (rather than serving) and are unwilling to take the time to invest in a deeper involvement (not necessarily romantic), which would in effect instill a level of trust/understanding so necessary for the development of such involvement. By calling ALL the shots (when, where, what, etc.), they are- in actuality, foot stomping subs, topping from the bottom.

Any thoughts?

Post #: 1

RE: Domspeak: The subs on collarme?? - 7/8/2005 10:52:16 AM

EmeraldSlave2

Posts: 3645
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

We suck, we know.

You won't change, they won't change.

In a sense it's best to put limits out there right off. If I'm looking for a new playpartner, it doesn't matter HOW much time or chemistry there is, if he wants monogamy, he's not going to get it from me and he should know that right off.

Now, there's a way to do that which is simply conversation and there's a way to say this which is "Do what I want, prove yourself and maybe I will do a little something in return for you."

You've got experience, you can't tell me this is different than what you've found otherwise?

(in reply to Handspankingdom)

Post #: 2

RE: Domspeak: The subs on collarme?? - 7/8/2005 12:07:53 PM

stormsfate

Posts: 849
Joined: 2/1/2005
Status: offline

People seek different things. Many are into it for wish fulfillment while others truly have a need to submit. I never understood why there is a need to pretend, though. If one only submits when its something they want to do, its not submitting.

best regards,
fate

_____________________________

Vision? What do you know about MY vision? My vision would turn your world upside down, tear asunder your illusions and the sanctuary of your own ignorance crashing down around you! Now ask yourself, are you really ready to see that vision? [/size

(in reply to Handspankingdom)

Post #: 3

RE: Domspeak: The subs on collarme?? - 7/8/2005 12:20:50 PM

Faramir

Posts: 1043
Joined: 2/12/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Handspankingdom

...I have sent notes to a few potential submissive females, however I have been greatly disappointed with their responses (one liners seeking pictures) and ability to communicate/relay their thougts as they pertain to D's. Indeed, a few subs don't really seem to grasp the concept of submitting at all, by starting with limits and then listing their likes and dislikes/do's and don'ts. While it is helpful to share such expectations, etc., if one makes a sincere effort (time investment) to get to know someone with respect to their pursuit in a D's relationship, wouldn't the trust level achieved make the sub comfortable with her dom? Isn't this what submitting is all about? Or are many here just seeking wish fulfillment?...

People not doing what you want doesn't = not submissive. It means they aren't good matches for you - it means they don't like what you have to say, don't find you attractive (despite you aeons in the lifestyle at both the physical and spiritual level), want different things that you want, etc.

You are mistaking your personal preferences (and even more, what's convenient for you) for the One Twue Way.

(in reply to Handspankingdom)

Post #: 4

RE: Domspeak: The subs on collarme?? - 7/8/2005 12:47:31 PM

SteelBondager

Posts: 86
Joined: 5/29/2005
Status: offline

quote:

Firstly, I view a requirement of a healthy (mutually rewarding) D's relationships/friendships to be a time investment on both ends

If so, you might consider putting in more than two weeks before you get disappointed.

quote:

And Wouldn't the dom -- acting responsibly, also take into consideration his/her sub's limits- take them to the edge (pushing limits a bit), without forcing unwanted activities on his/her sub? Isn't the relinquishment of control (of course there are different levels of intent) is what this is all about?

No. That's not what this is all about.

Fifteen years experience being a dominant on a "spiritual and physical level" doesn't equate with experiencing submissive women. Your bewilderment makes your inexperience in this area clear.

I suggest you stop looking for a year and just read on D/s-related boards. Listen to what submissive women have to say and try to experience them. If you post anything, let it be an honest question.

Spend some time listening in chat rooms. Don't speak, unless someone speaks to you. Listen, especially to the submissive women.

This is just my suggestion. You don't have to take it. Be mad if you want to.

Except one, all the women I've written to on Collarme.com have responded to my emails. Many of them sent me more than one email in response to my own. I join in the IRC chat when I can. Submissive women talk to me and private message me.

Isn't it strange that we have such different experiences here.

_____________________________

http://steelbondager.blogsome.com/ - Thoughts of a Modern Bondager

(in reply to Handspankingdom)

Post #: 5

RE: Domspeak: The subs on collarme?? - 7/8/2005 12:49:35 PM

stormsfate

Posts: 849
Joined: 2/1/2005
Status: offline

I don't think he's at all saying that he's disappointed that they aren't doing what he wants, but rather he is disappointed that responses he receives indicates that they aren't in fact seeking what they initially portray themselves to be seeking. i.e. Profile states....seeking to submit and upon contact, you find that said person seeks to submit on Wednesday nights at 8:00 until 9:30 and on Sundays 1:00 p.m. to 4:00 p.m. and here is the list of what they want done to them during that time frame.

I don't see anything he said that is indicative of one true wayisms and I believe he has a valid point that there are plenty into wish fulfillment versus submission. Nothing wrong with wish fulfillment, but I would imagine that it could be a bit frustrating when someone seeking a submissive contacts someone who says they are submissive, only to discover they are actually into wish fulfillment and not submission.

f

_____________________________

Vision? What do you know about MY vision? My vision would turn your world upside down, tear asunder your illusions and the sanctuary of your own ignorance crashing down around you! Now ask yourself, are you really ready to see that vision? [/size

(in reply to Faramir)

Post #: 6

RE: Domspeak: The subs on collarme?? - 7/8/2005 1:06:59 PM

Isolde

Posts: 213
Joined: 4/18/2005
From: Hamilton, Ontario
Status: offline

Why is it wish fulfillment to have limits? Someone who submits 24/7 is no more a 'true' submissive than someone who does so in a single scene a week. Someone who's comfortable letting their master or owner lop off a limb or give them a full-time padlocked chastity piercing is no more a true submissive than someone who can't abide being handled roughly, who won't even tolerate a spanking. The time spent and things you'll do have nothing to do with whether or not you're a submissive.

These submissives aren't responding as he wants them to, therefore he is calling their submission into question. That's a prime example of one true wayism.

(in reply to stormsfate)

Post #: 7

RE: Domspeak: The subs on collarme?? - 7/8/2005 1:14:40 PM

Faramir

Posts: 1043
Joined: 2/12/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: stormsfate

I don't see anything he said that is indicative of one true wayisms and I believe he has a valid point that there are plenty into wish fulfillment versus submission. Nothing wrong with wish fulfillment, but I would imagine that it could be a bit frustrating when someone seeking a submissive contacts someone who says they are submissive, only to discover they are actually into wish fulfillment and not submission.

f

That very statement is an example of twue wayism. You have created a tautology where there are those who genuinely submit and those who merely want wish-fulfillment. Guess what - everyone of us wants our wishes fulfilled.

(in reply to stormsfate)

Post #: 8

RE: Domspeak: The subs on collarme?? - 7/8/2005 1:26:04 PM

stormsfate

Posts: 849
Joined: 2/1/2005
Status: offline

First off, I don't believe in "true" anything. There is no one true way, but many paths that people take.

Do you really believe that doing only what you want to do when you want to do it equates to submitting? This is another thing I find perplexing, and part of what I believe feeds the fantasy mindset. Brings to mind SirKenin's post about his submissive safewording every time she was tired of doing whatever it was he wanted her to do. I'm not saying she isn't a submissive, but <shakes head> based upon that post, there were apparently some wires crossed in their communication at some point.

You state:

quote:

These submissives aren't responding as he wants them to, therefore he is calling their submission into question.

I suppose one could choose to interpret his post that way, however I see it as it is just possible that he's run across people who are into wish fulfillment...just as he stated in his post. Is that barely possible?

It doesn't affect me in the least whether someone is submissive or just wants to call themselves that...why should I care? At the same time, is it at all possible that there are actually people who frequent this site who are not <gasp> submissive even though they may have selected that option?

best regards,
fate

_____________________________

Vision? What do you know about MY vision? My vision would turn your world upside down, tear asunder your illusions and the sanctuary of your own ignorance crashing down around you! Now ask yourself, are you really ready to see that vision? [/size

(in reply to Isolde)

Post #: 9

RE: Domspeak: The subs on collarme?? - 7/8/2005 1:34:42 PM

dominmd

Posts: 474
Joined: 6/27/2005
Status: offline

I have been here less than 2 weeks, I have received replies to all but one of the emails I sent out. I am not dissapointed at all here. I have found intelligent conversation and discussion and sometime the occasional flame crisis. I agree that being into BDSM takes patience, and a lot of it, especially online.

Since I am a switch, I enjoy listening to both the Doms and subs. I learn more that way. Sometimes my schedule dictates when I am online and for how long. So if I am in sub mode, how does this make me bad if at all? In our hectic society some people can only be a part time Dom or a part time sub especially if they are not living together.

And truth be told there are people out there seeking nothing but self fullfillment. They are not into the mindset of a sub. They may not even know what a sub is. Or they may be too lazy to find out for themselves. They do not want to invest their time in a relationship, they want it now now now.

(in reply to Faramir)

Post #: 10

RE: Domspeak: The subs on collarme?? - 7/8/2005 1:35:00 PM

Gemeni

Posts: 255
Joined: 2/19/2005
Status: offline

It's very simple. Some seek a person who will submit to thier fantasies,fail to do so,and you will be deemed unsuitable.

These people are as common as dirt.

Others actually have a driving need to submit to a person. These are the ones I find worthy of an investment,they actually have some depth.

(in reply to stormsfate)

Post #: 11

RE: Domspeak: The subs on collarme?? - 7/8/2005 1:41:32 PM

stormsfate

Posts: 849
Joined: 2/1/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Faramir

That very statement is an example of twue wayism. You have created a tautology where there are those who genuinely submit and those who merely want wish-fulfillment. Guess what - everyone of us wants our wishes fulfilled.

Uhm, so if I say I'm a doctor, but I'm really a high school student...is that one true wayism? I'd like to grasp your point here, but I don't. You seem to be indicating that you feel a person can make themselves something simply by stating it.

Perhaps we have different definitions of a one true wayism. To me, that would be saying there is only one way that is "real". I don't believe that to be the case...however at some point the lines start to blur and it something will no longer fit the definition of a word. It is either a dog or a cat. Calling a dog a cat doesn't make it one.

As for all of us wanting our wishes fulfilled...absolutely. However some actually have their wishes fulfilled by submitting, while others have their wishes fulfilled by listing the things they want. I don't see one way as better than another, but they are different.

f

_____________________________

Vision? What do you know about MY vision? My vision would turn your world upside down, tear asunder your illusions and the sanctuary of your own ignorance crashing down around you! Now ask yourself, are you really ready to see that vision? [/size

(in reply to Faramir)

Post #: 12

RE: Domspeak: The subs on collarme?? - 7/8/2005 1:44:44 PM

LadyAngelika

Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline

quote:

everyone of us wants our wishes fulfilled.

Faramir and I agree on something :)

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to Handspankingdom)

Post #: 13

RE: Domspeak: The subs on collarme?? - 7/8/2005 1:51:58 PM

Mylee

Posts: 217
Joined: 6/19/2005
Status: offline

Hiya, I'm a little confussed you said in your post you've been with us two weeks yet your date joined says 7/6/05....

I don't think it's fair to judge us as a whole group by two weeks or two days or what have you...each Master is looking for different things, one sub can not be all thigns to all masters, it's impossible, where you may feel we fail you, we make our own Masters delightfully happy in the ways we serve them.

My master is very spiritual and He looks at our life style as a way to lift eachother and worship eachother, everything we do must be done on a soulfull level, He will not let me suit hard or soft limits He feels He is intune with me enough to tell if I want to stop something, I trust Him completely so I agree. But if I was just a pain slut, I would not suit my Him.

If I were looking for someone here on Collarme, I would most deffinatly set a list of hard and soft limits, a Dominate could then look at them and see if the things I would like to do or try are in the same lines with His before writting me. It would be a waste of time for a Dominate who MUST have mummification to note me, that is something I just could not ever willing submit to so

I'm sure if your patient you will meet someone who will fit just what your looking

~my'lee

(in reply to Handspankingdom)

Post #: 14

RE: Domspeak: The subs on collarme?? - 7/8/2005 1:52:13 PM

stormsfate

Posts: 849
Joined: 2/1/2005
Status: offline

As is often the case, I don't articulate as well as I would like to. Faramir...*you* were the one who said "merely" wish fulfillment. I don't see one as less than the other and I'm not sure why I'm coming across as thinking that way. In reading back over what I've posted, I am not seeing anything to indicate that.

I'm hijacking this guy's thread here, but why is it a bad thing to state that wish fulfillment may or may not go hand in hand with submission? Would it be so terrible if someone came here and said "hey...there was no choice in the profile for me to select that I'm into wish fulfillment. I'm not really submissive, but I do enjoy certain things that submissives often enjoy...so I'm selecting the submissive option"?

I do not consider myself a submissive, although in our dynamic, I do submit to my owner.

f

_____________________________

Vision? What do you know about MY vision? My vision would turn your world upside down, tear asunder your illusions and the sanctuary of your own ignorance crashing down around you! Now ask yourself, are you really ready to see that vision? [/size

(in reply to stormsfate)

Post #: 15

RE: Domspeak: The subs on collarme?? - 7/8/2005 1:57:43 PM

LadyAngelika

Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline

quote:

Any thoughts?

Here is the way I see it: Anyone who thinks that a submissive should be in waiting for his/her Dom/me without limits, just waiting to be snatched up and told how to exist has inhaled one too many helium balloons. ;) Now I'm not implying this is how you view things, but I know some do, and I just have to laugh at the absurdity of it all.

When I look at those who have submitted to me, I see people who chose me. They chose to submit to me. Often times, they were courted by others but I’m the one they chose. And on the flip side, I was not always someone’s first choice. The point of this is, they had a choice. They made their choice based on who would best correspond to their needs/desires. Funny, that’s the way “vanilla” type people chose their mates too!

So stating limits, desires, needs from the get go is an indication that the individual who is looking for someone to enter a D/s dynamic with as the submissive is self-aware, open and honest about his/her limits and needs and demonstrates a capacity to communicate. How refreshing is that?

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to Handspankingdom)

Post #: 16

RE: Domspeak: The subs on collarme?? - 7/8/2005 2:01:30 PM

dominmd

Posts: 474
Joined: 6/27/2005
Status: offline

Wish fullfillment does go hand in hand with submission. I would want to know the wishes and desires of my sub. It would make her experiences more complete and fullfilling.

But there are some that are just "spank me here, thanks see ya later". That is not submission, it is just a desire being fillfilled. Submission and dominance go hand in hand. Both have to be loving to each other, trusting, and mutually respectful. A D/s relationship takes time, and as I understand it sometimes years to be formed.

(in reply to stormsfate)

Post #: 17

RE: Domspeak: The subs on collarme?? - 7/8/2005 2:03:31 PM

Faramir

Posts: 1043
Joined: 2/12/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: stormsfate

Uhm, so if I say I'm a doctor, but I'm really a high school student...is that one true wayism? I'd like to grasp your point here, but I don't. You seem to be indicating that you feel a person can make themselves something simply by stating it.

f

No, but if you say something like, "There are people who exist on a spiritual plane - and those who live focused on material," things you have.

You've done a binary pairing, pairing two things together, one of which if favored, one of which is not. It's not useful when aplied to values, and it does some harm - we end up kidding ourselves that our proclivities and predelictions are "real," "noble," "high" and yes, "twue."

(in reply to stormsfate)

Post #: 18

RE: Domspeak: The subs on collarme?? - 7/8/2005 2:05:24 PM

Faramir

Posts: 1043
Joined: 2/12/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

quote:

everyone of us wants our wishes fulfilled.

Faramir and I agree on something :)

- LA

Well you know, with an infinite number of threads, and an infinite number of monkeys typing replies....

(in reply to LadyAngelika)

Post #: 19

RE: Domspeak: The subs on collarme?? - 7/8/2005 2:11:34 PM

DomMeinCT

Posts: 2355
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline

quote:

I have sent notes to a few potential submissive females...

Pardon my noticing, but it seems many subs here....

Any thoughts?

Yes, I have some thoughts. I've been a member for 2 months, but this is the first post for which I felt I had to respond.

You use generalizing terms from "a few" to "many". In two weeks, you got frustrated by just "a few" subs to post this comment? This seems like simply a case of a few not meeting your expectations in a short amount of time. Perhaps you should better describe in your profile the type of interaction you expect when you are contacted by a sub (or put it directly into your message when you write to them, so they won't waste your time).

Then, to write about "many" subs on this board is ridiculous, particularly when you have simply contacted a few.

Without exception, I have responded to every initial message with respect (even when some did not deserve it, then they were blocked).

(in reply to Handspankingdom)

Post #: 20

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