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RE: Trust in your relationship? - 8/31/2007 9:45:30 AM   
mmb1


Posts: 304
Joined: 8/3/2007
Status: offline 		I believe a Dominant, a true one does always "try" to do their best for the sub, but I also realize that they are human and that may make wrong judgement calls that should be forgiven as we forgive anyone else.

(in reply to TreasureKY)
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RE: Trust in your relationship? - 8/31/2007 9:57:06 AM   
Twicehappy2x


Posts: 1096
Joined: 3/27/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Choosing what's best for her may not always be what the DOM wants in either.  Making choices sometimes means picking something no one really WANTS, but must be done.


I agree with you on this point as well LA. Like both your and Mistoferin's cases with previous Doms. They both did a very beautiful and hard thing for anybody, even in a vanilla relationship, to do. 

_____________________________

The human heart is not a finite container but an ever expanding universe with all the stars contained there in.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
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RE: Trust in your relationship? - 8/31/2007 9:59:18 AM   
mmb1


Posts: 304
Joined: 8/3/2007
Status: offline 		I trust that my Dom would not put me in harms way, but if that were the case, and I disagreed, I would personally say it.  Respecting yourself is where it begins, how can you expect anyone to do differently, if you don't yourself? And being a sub/slave, I have never believed that surrenders your "rights" to also know what may be good for you.  I think it should be discussed.  Trusting them to do right by you, of course is necessary, but when you question it, I would hope they would rather me state that, then ignore it.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
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RE: Trust in your relationship? - 8/31/2007 10:07:33 AM   
BeingChewsie


Posts: 1633
Joined: 10/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Twicehappy2x


I wonder if when somebody in a situation like Daddysprop agreed to become his slave she was aware he would be putting her in harms way for his benefit? 
 
If the person in that type of arrangement was aware, or if it occured further into the relationship but the subbie accepted that, then my previous whys and hows stand.


I would say in props case it is quite likely(given I have her read her views on slavery for many years) that she expected nothing less than for him to exploit her in any way he wanted for his benefit. That is consistent with her view of slavery and I'm sure played a role in her choice..which goes right back to what I said..Her owner is behaving consistently for who he is, who he presented himself as, and doing what he believes is right which is what prop believes is right..so no trust is broken.

Your real questions seems to be why would someone want to be in a relationship like that?

The why and how can vary, some people don't have a strong self-preservation instinct to begin with, this can be seen all around us just in normal living. Some have a higher risk taking drive, some people choose to over ride self-preservation to be part of something they perceive as bigger/ more important, or something that feels more right to them. Sometimes they just believe that is what is right for them and it is...in any case or reason there is unlikely to be any breach of trust if the person is making decisions consistently in line with who you know them to be.

_____________________________

"In fact, it is my contention that most women are accepting of way less than optimal circumstance constantly, and are lucky to be 'snagged' by the right man, if ever. But it is more by happy accident than by their design. "
~Ron and Hup

(in reply to Twicehappy2x)
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RE: Trust in your relationship? - 8/31/2007 10:32:51 AM   
Twicehappy2x


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Joined: 3/27/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BeingChewsie

Your real questions seems to be why would someone want to be in a relationship like that?


That is a small part of it. I really do congratulate Daddysprop on her fortitude. And thank you for bringing interesting points to the thread.
 
The bigger part of this question, not the original one, goes back to if it happened after, how do they deal with it and why do the subies involve agree to that. Even if it is not something that puts the subbie in harms way physically, what if it is something they simply perceive as wrong or is emotionally/psychologically damaging.
 
The first answer i think of is they don't, they end the relationship, but my inquiry is for the ones who stay for whatever reason.
 
 


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The human heart is not a finite container but an ever expanding universe with all the stars contained there in.

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RE: Trust in your relationship? - 8/31/2007 10:40:45 AM   
Perplex


Posts: 110
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline 		not to highjack the thread...but the question also has to be asked to dom's if they trust themselves to do the right thing...

anybody can teach a dog to do most anything, but is it good for the dog really to carry in a sunday newspaper that is heavier than she is? yeah it saves the dog owner the effort of having to do it, but killing the dog early by weekly lugging (anybody else seeing Max here from the grynch?) doesn't do anybody any good. 

for myself, I've always seen the role of dom as meaning teacher whether than it testing a sub's personal limits of pain so they can learn how they respond or teaching them the life lessons of how to keep a bankbook balanced. and I've made mistakes along the way, I let my own whim or desire get in the way of what was *best* for the sub  To me I had to fix what I broke, but that's me, I pack my own garbage out of campsites and put the lid back down too I don't expect folks to do thigns my way.  it's too much work to enforce your will upon the world other than in personal ways.

(in reply to Twicehappy2x)
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RE: Trust in your relationship? - 8/31/2007 10:46:56 AM   
BeingChewsie


Posts: 1633
Joined: 10/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Twicehappy2x

 
The bigger part of this question, not the original one, goes back to if it happened after, how do they deal with it and why do the subies involve agree to that. Even if it is not something that puts the subbie in harms way physically, what if it is something they simply perceive as wrong or is emotionally/psychologically damaging.
 
The first answer i think of is they don't, they end the relationship, but my inquiry is for the ones who stay for whatever reason.
 
 


You are right most don't. Because it is not consistent with their views on slavery. For those who do stay even if they perceve something as "wrong" it is because in their beliefs in regards to slavery it is still right. It is his right to do things they perceive as "wrong" for them or damaging. The instinct that would make you or any number of people exit stage left is either absent or intentionally over ridden by their belief in regards to slavery. In other words their beliefs in the rightness of his authority and rightness in thier slavery is a stronger belief than the perceived wrong or emotional/psychological damage they know they are suffering.

Edited because "more important" made it sound like it was a conscious decision they make and I don't believe it always or often is. People are driven and constrained by their beliefs but can't directly access them. "Stronger belief" is a better choice of words.

< Message edited by BeingChewsie -- 8/31/2007 10:58:19 AM >

_____________________________

"In fact, it is my contention that most women are accepting of way less than optimal circumstance constantly, and are lucky to be 'snagged' by the right man, if ever. But it is more by happy accident than by their design. "
~Ron and Hup

(in reply to Twicehappy2x)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Trust in your relationship? - 8/31/2007 10:47:24 AM   
MasterMataeo


Posts: 215
Joined: 1/24/2007
Status: offline 		the Four corners come to mind in this one,,
and one needs to know and respect the limits that are set,, if a sub is 'loaned out"
he/she needs to be aware of what is going on around them an how their Master/Dom,,Mistress/Domme might feel about what is going on ,, and wheather or not certian actions are apporpriate or not,, just because they are on "loan" doesn't make them property of that Dom/me,, 
i know that if mine ever came back with marks and the such that were not warrented or discussed prior to the exchange ,, it would not happen again,,
for her safty and my mindsake,,,

Trust is Vital in any relationship ,, especially a BDSM style one,, along with the other 3 of the four corners

MasterMataeo

_____________________________

remember the Four corners: Communication, Honesty, Respect , and Trust

Try anything Once, Twice if you like it, Three times to make sure, four makes it a habit, and five makes it's a fetish.


(in reply to TreasureKY)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Trust in your relationship? - 8/31/2007 10:56:22 AM   
michaelOfGeorgia


Posts: 4253
Status: offline 		I can't trust too many, since few are true to their word...and yes, I'm very trustworthy

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Are we having fun, yet?

(in reply to Twicehappy2x)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Trust in your relationship? - 8/31/2007 3:35:02 PM   
kyraofMists


Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline 		The first thought that went through my mind when I read the OP was "what do you mean by best choice?"  In reading the rest of the thread, I think we might be on the same page in that the best choice may mean doing something that neither of us really wants to do.  With that caveat....

I don't consider trust to be an absolute thing.  The longer we are together, the more confidence I gain about him and our relationship.  As I gain confidence, my trust in him and our relationship evolves. 

The relationship between the three of us comes first, so he will make the decisions that best serve the relationship.  Most often what is best for the relationship is also best for the individuals; if it wasn't then they won't be in the relationship for very long.

I don't think wanting a dominant to make choices that are best for you is even a factor in whether a person is submissive or not.  To me, someone is submissive (in the lifestyle sense) if they choose to submit to their partner.  Wanting something does not have to impact the behavior that we choose to exhibit.  If their desire to want their dominant to choose what is best for them causes them to refuse to submit, then I would say they were not a good submissive for that dominant.

I just don't think that selflessness is a requirement for someone to submit to another person.  Obtaining a mindset of selflessness might make it easier to live with that choice and be happy, but it isn't a requirement to make that choice.  I think a lot of times when people describe what it is to be a submissive or a slave, I think what they are describing is what it is they need to be happy and fulfilled as a submissive or a slave.

Knight's Kyra

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to Twicehappy2x)
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RE: Trust in your relationship? - 8/31/2007 4:18:04 PM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline 		I haven't read through the thread yet but will this evening.

I trust Himself to do what's best for him, sometimes. I trust that he'll do what's best for me, sometimes. I trust that he'll do what's best for our shared relationship, most of the time. Sometimes one or the other of us will fuck up and when those rare occasions occur, we work through them. I trust that we'll always be able to work through them even it means we can't be together because of them. With my trust in him comes my faith in his ability to lead and sculpt our relationship so that it manifests as close to our ideal as possible. Eh, we do fall short sometimes, but the effort is there. He trusts me as well and has faith in me to remain true to him, myself and our ultimate goal of perfection.

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to Twicehappy2x)
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RE: Trust in your relationship? - 8/31/2007 4:55:36 PM   
Joseff


Posts: 505
Joined: 6/2/2007
Status: offline 		First of all, in any relationship, but most especially in D/s relationships, trust is paramount. And it goes both ways. I've tried in the past, with limited success, to articulate the need for a dom to trust the sub, but for the purposes of this discussion, let's just accept it as given.  Now, when a dom assumes to make decisions that effect his submissive, he must take responsibility for those decisions. If the dom loans out the sub, and the sub is harmed, it is the responsibility of the dom, as though he has caused the harm himself. ( refer to the dom as "he" and the sub as "she"here simply because that is the way my life is arranged, and it does not reflect on the arrangements of others.) So, while the dom may not always make decisions with what is best for the sub in mind, she must be able to trust that he will take full responsibility for any harm that comes to her from any decision he does make, regardless of motive or intent.
Joseff

(in reply to BitaTruble)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Trust in your relationship? - 8/31/2007 5:54:11 PM   
catize


Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
Status: offline
quote:

 Is it an absolute for you that you trust your dominant to make the best choice for you even if it may not be the best choice for them or fulfill their wants? 

My definition of what is best for me is that I remain emotionally and physically functional.  So yes, in that context I need to trust the dominant has the same goal. 

quote:

  Personally if it happened once I might be inclined to let it go as a freak occurrence but the next time I would lose all trust and there would no longer be any submission there. At that point I would be telling the dominant, you are not making the best choices for me but rather for you.


I do not understand how it would be in the dominant’s best interest to allow repeated damage to the submissive.  What is the benefit to anyone if harm is done so severely the submissive cannot serve? 

_____________________________

"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

(in reply to Twicehappy2x)
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RE: Trust in your relationship? - 8/31/2007 7:08:29 PM   
velvetears


Posts: 2933
Joined: 6/19/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Twicehappy2x

 1. As a submissive or a slave define trust in your relationship with you dominant.
 
2. Is it an absolute for you that you trust your dominant to make the best choice for you even if it may not be the best choice for them or fulfill their wants?
 
3. As a dominant do you always make the best choices/decisions for your submissive even if it is not what you would desire or is best for you?
 
4. Do you think a submissive is not a good submissive if they expect you to always choose what is best for them rather than what you as a dominant want from them?
 


1. Trust in my dominant means that i have grown to understand who he is as a man, as a dom, as person posessing integrity and character.  For me i could not trust anyone i did not respect, so i would have to have respect for him to be able to trust him. 
Turst to me means i would place my life in their hands and know i was safe and that no intentional harm would ever be done to me.  Trust to me  also means i would feel safe enough to make myself vulnerable, to bare my soul and allow them to see eveything, that i did not have to hide any part of who i was, because i know i would still be loved and accepted. 

2. This is a bit tricky and would depend. It would depend on what that choice was.  If the best choice,  being in my best interest meant that he was not going to compromise my  health or safety to satisfy some fetish or desire he had, i would say that yes my safety should overide his desire and that his responsibility was to make the decision in my best interest.   As a submissive i want my dominant to satisfy his desires and would not expect him to always think of "is it the best choice for my sub" - barring the above examples (regarding safety, health, etc) if it was something he wanted and i wasn't exactly delighted in that choice, i would expect him to make the choice he truly wanted to make.  How can i express my submission to him if he is always thinking about how his choices are affecting me. As long as he doesn't cross my hard limits and do something to me that puts me in harms way, he should and can do as he pleases.

3. i am not a dominant but i can tell you that if my dominant did, i would feel certainly valued and loved but if it was a constant i would feel i wasn't being given the opportunity to express my love, devotion, submission to him if i was always being thought of first.  i would feel too pampered and i personally would not like that - once in a while is nice :-)

4. There has to be a balance, for me at least.  Some subs love to be pampered and catered to, some love to be totally subjugated and treated like property with absolutely no rights.

In a nut shell for me to show my love - allow me to by challenging my submission with expectation for me that make me strive and work hard to attain.  Show your love for me by expecting the best from me, and knowing it is what i treasure giving to you, even when the giving isn't easy, and valuing what it is that i bring you - even if i fall short, simply because you know heart and soul i did my best and will continue to do so.  

_____________________________

Religion is for people who are scared of hell, Spirituality is for people who have been there

(in reply to Twicehappy2x)
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RE: Trust in your relationship? - 8/31/2007 8:38:27 PM   
phoenixsub999


Posts: 49
Joined: 11/17/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mmb1

I trust that my Dom would not put me in harms way, but if that were the case, and I disagreed, I would personally say it.  Respecting yourself is where it begins, how can you expect anyone to do differently, if you don't yourself? And being a sub/slave, I have never believed that surrenders your "rights" to also know what may be good for you.  I think it should be discussed.  Trusting them to do right by you, of course is necessary, but when you question it, I would hope they would rather me state that, then ignore it.


Nicely put - trust doesn't mean you expect your partner to be all-knowing and to never make a mistake. And it doesn't mean you give up responsibility for your own well-being. In turn, shouldn't your partner trust you to speak up if there is a problem? Because of the greater potential for permanent injury in BDSM relationships communication as well as trust is so important for a healthy relationship.

(in reply to mmb1)
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RE: Trust in your relationship? - 8/31/2007 8:47:11 PM   
adoracat


Posts: 1779
Joined: 2/16/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Twicehappy2x
Do you as a submissive need to trust your dominant will always try to make the best choices for you?


yes.  however, i also know that he will balance the needs *he* has with what i need in *my* household.  we have separate households as we are both married to others.  and as i always tell him,  "you have no need to apologise to me, the needs of your household must come first".

he makes decisions for me with that in mind, also.

kitten, who is secure that if i  have to give him additional information, his decisions may change also.

(in reply to Twicehappy2x)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Trust in your relationship? - 8/31/2007 8:47:51 PM   
onmykneesb4Him


Posts: 113
Joined: 8/28/2007
Status: offline 		Sir has earned my absolute trust. If i thought He was making a bad decision, i would bring it up, because He is very open to hearing my opinion (most of the time, anyway). i trust Him to always make the best decisions He can, which is all anyone can expect anyway. i understand that sometimes He'll make mistakes (and He has), but as a previous poster said, i can live with that. We just move forward from there. He recognizes His mistakes, accepts the results, and rectifies the situation as best He can. i could not give myself to someone else to such a degree if i didn't have complete trust.

(in reply to phoenixsub999)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Trust in your relationship? - 8/31/2007 8:54:10 PM   
adoracat


Posts: 1779
Joined: 2/16/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Choosing what's best for her may not always be what the DOM wants in either.  Making choices sometimes means picking something no one really WANTS, but must be done.


i look at it as akin to parenting in some ways.  gods know, in caring for a UM, you have situations where you're going to have to be the bad guy, and make decisions no one wants.  but they HAVE to be made to show consequences of actions.

Sir/Daddy does the same for me.  he's yelled a few times (which generally WORKS for me) and he's taken me over his knee for punishment once.  those decisions arent welcome, but in hindsight made sense. 

he loves me, and i trust him to think things through and make good decisions for both of us....as long as i do MY part and keep him informed.

kitten

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Trust in your relationship? - 8/31/2007 9:09:15 PM   
slaverosebeauty


Posts: 1941
Joined: 12/12/2004
From: Cali
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Twicehappy2x
Is it an absolute for you that you trust your dominant to make the best choice for you even if it may not be the best choice for them or fulfill their wants?
 

 
Trust is what it is, its earned. MJ has earned my trust as a friend, a lover, a Master and as a person who may not agree with what has been done or is done, but understands those reasons. Their are NO absolutes in life, even life is not absolute.
 
What one may see as NOT be the 'best choice' or in fulfilling ones desires, it still may be the best choice in the long run, for the better good.
 
quote:
As a dominant do you always make the best choices/decisions for your submissive even if it is not what you would desire or is best for you?
 

 
NO one 'always' makes the best decisions, that is NOT possible, its an oxymoron. MJ has made decisions for me and for us that He may not have enjoyed at that moment, yet, they were for the greater good of some sort, so He did them.
 
quote:


Do you think a submissive is not a good submissive if they expect you to always choose what is best for them rather than what you as a dominant want from them?
 


Once again that word 'always' its a definate and all encompassing; choices are rarely that cut and dry or that all encompassing and definate. I do think that in my relationship that MJ makes the decisions that need to be made, regardless of who they are best for. You make decisions based on many things, long term effects, etc.
 
MJ may enjoy something, example, extreame breath play, yet, I am asthmatic and have a tendancy to stop breathing, does that mean that He ignores common sence or His desires to push that envelope?! No, it means that He makes the decision as to what to do in a given situation and how to handle the consequences of His actions or lack thereof. Above is JUST an example, MJ is not careless or lacking common sence.  

_____________________________

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"Friends live on in our hearts, regardless if they are here or not."

(in reply to Twicehappy2x)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Trust in your relationship? - 9/1/2007 12:22:47 AM   
slavegirljoy


Posts: 1207
Joined: 11/6/2006
From: North Carolina, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Twicehappy2x
As a submissive or a slave define trust in your relationship with you dominant.
 
Is it an absolute for you that you trust your dominant to make the best choice for you even if it may not be the best choice for them or fulfill their wants?

 
Yes, for me, it is critical to have trust, in order to have a healthy relationship that is beneficial to both Him and i.  But, it's not just a matter of me having trust in my Master.  It's just as important that my Master trusts me, too.   He needs to be able to trust that i am telling Him the truth about my feelings and thoughts and needs and wants, in order for Him to be able to make a decision that is appropriate and beneficial to either Him, me, both, another, and/or Oour relationship.   i trust that He will be truthful with me, also, and that He will say what He means, mean what He says, follow-through on what He says He will do, and keep me informed of anything that affects me and my ability to serve Him.  It's also important that my Master trusts me to be obedient and loyal to Him and that i will accept His decision as being correct, appropriate, and final. There are plenty of times that my Master discusses things with me, to get my input, before He makes His decision and, sometimes He asks me to make the decision.  That choice is always up to Him.  He trusts me to makes appropriate decisions but, if He's not happy with my decision, He can override it. If i didn't trust Him or He didn't trust me, it just wouldn't work for Uus and Wwe wouldn't be in a Master/slave relationship together. slave joyOwned property of Master David______________________________________"Well, y'all know we all evolve at our own pace."

(in reply to Twicehappy2x)
Profile   Post #: 60
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