RE: Edwards wants to force you to see a doctor (Full Version)

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caitlyn -> RE: Edwards wants to force you to see a doctor (9/3/2007 6:27:58 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level
Agreed, but what about those that paint the right with such a wide brush?


Equally bad, in my view.
 
The bottom line, is that we need healthcare reform, and a way to give everyone access. It's somewhat foolish in my view to be 'against' socialized medicine, or 'for' it, at this point. This excludes several plans that may have merit, at least in part.
 
Look ... the government is going to be involved, period. To decry government involvement, is the write insurance companies another blank check, until such time as a big problem, becomes an even bigger problem.
 
The better course, in my view, is to examine these plans for the details they contain, without all the rhetoric and scare tactic talk that we currently have. This is the best way to get a plan that is workable.
 
By the way ... anyone care to guess who puts out the information used in the rhetoric and scare tactics?



mnottertail -> RE: Edwards wants to force you to see a doctor (9/3/2007 6:33:42 AM)

quote:

By the way ... anyone care to guess who puts out the information used in the rhetoric and scare tactics?


A select few centrists?

Ron
"How am I doin'?"  Ed Koch



Level -> RE: Edwards wants to force you to see a doctor (9/3/2007 6:34:09 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level
Agreed, but what about those that paint the right with such a wide brush?


Equally bad, in my view.
 


Good morning, pretty lady.
 
That's because you have one of the more open of minds, caitlyn (except when it comes to Julius Jones [:D]).



came4U -> RE: Edwards wants to force you to see a doctor (9/3/2007 6:36:41 AM)

Anyone who doesn't believe in socialized healthcare as a means to refer to it as a tax-sucker is the same type who would opt out of paying district school taxes because they do not have children.

Even if you don't use such services (essential and crucial services I may add) it is all part of being a 'responsible citizen' of a nation.

btw, I couldn't even imagine paying for health care.  Thus, I wouldn't even risk moving back to the US.  I haven't had a cold in 15 odd years but I think I am much safer here lol.



farglebargle -> RE: Edwards wants to force you to see a doctor (9/3/2007 6:41:12 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

They wont give an opt-out choice because the Dems will think that is a way for the rich to avoid paying into the system. That is why they dont have an opt-out for medicare or social security either


Oh, so you have to PAY TAXES INTO the programs, but they don't force you to accept benefits?

Then if State Healthcare works the same way, the rich pay some tiny, tiny fraction of their income in, and can go see whatever $VANITY_DOCTOR they like.

Of course, I don't see people sending the Social Security checks BACK too often...




Marc2b -> RE: Edwards wants to force you to see a doctor (9/3/2007 6:54:15 AM)

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved for the States respectively, or to the people.
 
– Tenth Amendment
 


I must have missed the part that says the Federal Government has any say over our healthcare.  This debate shouldn't even exist in the first place because at most it is a matter for the state governments.



mnottertail -> RE: Edwards wants to force you to see a doctor (9/3/2007 7:12:50 AM)

.....promote the general welfare.....

Thanks for playing.

Ron



cyberdude611 -> RE: Edwards wants to force you to see a doctor (9/3/2007 7:40:35 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: came4U

Anyone who doesn't believe in socialized healthcare as a means to refer to it as a tax-sucker is the same type who would opt out of paying district school taxes because they do not have children.

Even if you don't use such services (essential and crucial services I may add) it is all part of being a 'responsible citizen' of a nation.

btw, I couldn't even imagine paying for health care.  Thus, I wouldn't even risk moving back to the US.  I haven't had a cold in 15 odd years but I think I am much safer here lol.


Maybe they should get rid of public schools. I mean that system is failing right now. Teens in India are beating our teens in the USA in math and science even though we are spending 3 times more money per student. The system is currently failing.



Marc2b -> RE: Edwards wants to force you to see a doctor (9/3/2007 7:56:23 AM)

quote:

.....promote the general welfare.....


First, that phrase is in the preamble of the Constitution. It is not a specific power granted to the Federal Government but rather part of a description of the purpose of the Constitution. In other words, it is in the general welfare to have a Constitution.

Secondly, it says promote... not ensure... the general (not each and every specific individual's) welfare. People who tote out this phrase in defense of more government power fail to realize (or do they?) that they render the whole concept of limited and enumerated powers meaningless (the same goes for the people who tote out the commerce clause). It gives the government carte blanche to do anything because anything can be twisted into "promoting the general welfare."

One could say that it would promote the general welfare if we rounded up all Arab-Americans and kicked them out of the country. Does that mean the government now has that power?

Americans are too fat. It would certainly promote the general welfare if we banned fatty foods.

Heavy metal music causes kids to sacrifice the neighbors cat in Satanic rituals and to commit suicide. It would promote the general welfare if the government banned heavy metal music.

And least we forget... some Americans don’t go to the doctor as often as they should. It would be in the general welfare if the government forced them too.

Need I go on?

I have no problem with the government promoting the general welfare but I fail to see how that translates into micromanage every individual's life.


Edited for spalling mistakes.



came4U -> RE: Edwards wants to force you to see a doctor (9/3/2007 7:57:14 AM)

quote:

Maybe they should get rid of public schools. I mean that system is failing right now. Teens in India are beating our teens in the USA in math and science even though we are spending 3 times more money per student. The system is currently failing.


Our school system isn't failing.

Maybe if yours is then it is the product of being surrounded by a rotting society.

These 'foreign' teens perhaps are better because they come from areas where 1. education is not a given but a blessed essential rarity for only the lucky or rich. 2. their parents instill the importance of education (not just to attend as free babysitting) and 3. these kids learn quickly that they must strive for a higher standard of grades to avoid being challenged in a society that diminishes their aptitudes because of color and/or race.

Private school are not the answer, schools I have worked in are well able to give the same education as a private school, they merely have better equipment, computers and teacher-student ratio.  Most wealthy here trust the public school system.

edit to add: Here, (Ontario) all students, in order to recieve their highschool diploma, must have 40 hours community service completed (from grades 9-12 timeframe to complete it).   A good idea to produce a future with better enlightened, responsible adults.



Level -> RE: Edwards wants to force you to see a doctor (9/3/2007 7:59:41 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

Americans are too fat. It would certainly promote the general welfare if we banned fatty foods.



Ban carbs [:D]



came4U -> RE: Edwards wants to force you to see a doctor (9/3/2007 8:09:19 AM)

and back to the topic of health care...

what kind of sad world that a government even 'considers' forcing healthcare checks and visits upon a nation that wants self control and freedoms yet cannot be trusted to eat well, live well and thrive in and about corporations that produce such crap we digest.  Why is a government acting on the middle-fix instead of not enforcing such greedy corporations to stop poisoning our citizens (with use of preservatives and high fat contents)?  Citizens who are too stupid not to eat less than 4000 calories in a single sitting maybe need to be babysat?  No, they need to be educated on the 'value' of choices in what they eat, drink and touch. Along with that education, the government should also not be hypocritical and give freedom to accessing the means to process such foods with high chemical content. 



farglebargle -> RE: Edwards wants to force you to see a doctor (9/3/2007 8:12:31 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

.....promote the general welfare.....

Thanks for playing.

Ron




That's a cop-out. That's a GENERAL PRINCIPLE and not a DELEGATED POWER.

Of course, I wouldn't be against an Amendment requiring a basic medical care benefit provided to all Citizens...




Level -> RE: Edwards wants to force you to see a doctor (9/3/2007 8:12:49 AM)

If most people would stop eating carbs, then health (and the related health care) would be vastly improved.



came4U -> RE: Edwards wants to force you to see a doctor (9/3/2007 8:23:13 AM)

carbs are a necessity of life.

it is not the carbs, it is eating 400lbs of it in a single week in different forms that is causes unstable weight reactions.

lordy. the low-carb fat diet is out, proven to be nonsense.



Level -> RE: Edwards wants to force you to see a doctor (9/3/2007 8:28:21 AM)

No, they aren't, and no, it isn't.



caitlyn -> RE: Edwards wants to force you to see a doctor (9/3/2007 8:33:18 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611
Maybe they should get rid of public schools. I mean that system is failing right now. Teens in India are beating our teens in the USA in math and science even though we are spending 3 times more money per student. The system is currently failing.


The government can't make kids want to learn, and it isn't the teacher's job to be the student's parents. I'm unsure on the policy of blaming the government for social apathy.



feastie -> RE: Edwards wants to force you to see a doctor (9/3/2007 8:37:39 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

So, if a person must go to the doctor, do they have to accept that doctor's recommendation?


Stubborn Man.



Level -> RE: Edwards wants to force you to see a doctor (9/3/2007 8:40:21 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: feastie

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

So, if a person must go to the doctor, do they have to accept that doctor's recommendation?


Stubborn Man.


Who??? [:-]



feastie -> RE: Edwards wants to force you to see a doctor (9/3/2007 8:42:41 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

quote:

ORIGINAL: feastie

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

So, if a person must go to the doctor, do they have to accept that doctor's recommendation?


Stubborn Man.


Who??? [:-]


I ain't talkin about Santa Claus.



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